Brad Katsuyama, Wall Street Reformer

Feb 21, 2018 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Brad Katsuyama, protagonist of "Flash Boys," discusses how meditation helped him manage stress and high blood pressure after leaving his job at Royal Bank of Canada to co-found IEX, a stock exchange challenging predatory high-speed trading. He shares practical tips for integrating mindfulness into a demanding life.

At a Glance
30 Insights
59m 3s Duration
16 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction: Call-in Show and Listener Questions

Meditation Benefits: Placebo vs. Real Experience

Mindful Noting and the Creative Process

Guest Introduction: Brad Katsuyama and Flash Boys

Brad's Meditation Journey: Stress, Blood Pressure, and IEX

Brad's Meditation Practice and Routine

The Mind-Body Connection and Stress Manifestation

Overcoming Struggle and Self-Criticism in Meditation

Technique for Naming Distracting Thoughts

Understanding High-Frequency Trading and Market Structure

The Genesis and Mission of IEX

Market Reaction and Regulatory Battle for IEX

Current Status and Future of IEX

Managing High-Stress Work with Meditation

Meditation Enhances Clarity, Not Weakness

Consistency in Meditation Practice

Mindfulness

Mindfulness is the ability to be non-judgmentally aware of whatever is happening in your head, preventing thoughts and emotions from controlling your reactions. It helps in clearly observing feelings and thoughts without getting carried away by them.

Mind-Body Connection

This concept highlights the profound link between psychological well-being and physical health. Brad's experience of his blood pressure normalizing after leaving a stressful job illustrates how mental state can directly impact bodily functions, even when one's mind is in denial about stress.

High-Frequency Trading (HFT)

HFT involves using extremely fast technology and networks to gain an advantage in the stock market. High-speed traders can detect orders at one exchange and race to other exchanges to buy shares ahead of slower traders, then sell them back at a higher price, essentially 'picking off' orders.

Rent Seeking (in finance)

In the context of the stock market, rent seeking refers to the practice by intermediaries, such as stock exchanges, of extracting profit from transactions without creating new value. This is often done by selling technology advantages or data to certain parties, making the market more complex and profitable for themselves at the expense of investors.

Speed Bump (IEX)

The 'speed bump' is a mechanism implemented by IEX that intentionally slows down all incoming orders by a small, fixed amount (e.g., 350 microseconds). This neutralizes the speed advantage of high-frequency traders, preventing them from exploiting latency differences and ensuring a fairer trading environment for all investors.

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Can I expect initial positive feelings from meditation to last, or will I experience a 'downward spiral'?

Initial excitement and perceived benefits are common, but meditation practice fluctuates. The goal is to develop an improved baseline of focus and mindfulness, and to learn to roll with the ups and downs in a more supple way, rather than expecting a permanent state of feeling good.

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Does mindful noting during meditation interrupt or hinder the blossoming of good or creative thoughts?

In personal experience, no. While new ideas can emerge during meditation, if an idea is truly good, it will still be there after the session. The practice is about being mindful of thoughts rather than getting sucked into them, but it's also acceptable to break practice to note a truly genius idea.

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How can meditation help manage physical symptoms of stress, like high blood pressure?

Meditation helps align the mind and body, making individuals more aware of physical tension (like a clenched jaw or tense shoulders) that the mind might deny. This awareness and the practice of not taking thoughts so seriously can reduce overall stress and, in turn, lower blood pressure.

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What is the core problem with the modern stock market that 'Flash Boys' exposed?

The stock market has become corrupted by intermediaries (exchanges and high-frequency traders) who exploit structural advantages. Exchanges make more money selling high-speed data and technology advantages to certain parties (high-frequency traders) than from matching buyers and sellers, allowing these traders to 'pick off' orders from regular investors.

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How does IEX (Investors Exchange) address the issues of high-frequency trading?

IEX was built as an alternative stock exchange that protects investors by implementing a 'speed bump.' This mechanism intentionally slows down orders by a tiny, fixed amount, neutralizing the speed advantage of high-frequency traders and preventing them from trading ahead of investors.

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Is it possible to 'win' at meditation?

No, meditation is not about winning or achieving a perfect state. It's a practice of continually returning to the present moment and observing thoughts without judgment, understanding that the mind will always wander.

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Does meditation make you 'soft' or cause you to lose your 'edge' in competitive environments?

On the contrary, meditation can provide a level of clarity, decisiveness, and conviction that enhances performance. It helps individuals recognize when their thinking is cloudy or when they are reacting impulsively, allowing them to refocus and operate more effectively without unnecessary emotional baggage.

1. Prioritize Psychological Well-being

Recognize that psychological well-being can profoundly impact physical health markers like blood pressure, serving as a ’litmus test’ for your overall mental state. Consider significant life changes if current situations are detrimental to your mental health.

2. Align Mind and Body

Understand that your body can signal stress and other conditions even when your mind doesn’t consciously perceive it; use practices like meditation to align mind and body, becoming more attuned to these physical indicators.

3. Cultivate Non-Judgmental Awareness

Meditate to enhance your ability to focus, pay attention, and become non-judgmentally aware of your thoughts, which helps prevent them from overwhelming or controlling you.

4. Meditate to Feel Clearly

Recognize that the goal of meditation is not to feel a specific way or achieve a permanent state of improved focus, but to clearly experience your current feelings and establish a better, albeit fluctuating, baseline of mindfulness.

5. Embrace Marathon Mindset

When facing significant, long-term challenges, adopt a ‘marathon’ mindset, recognizing that sustained effort and strategic reprioritization of your life are necessary to reach the finish line, rather than trying to sprint.

6. Seek Agency, Avoid Helplessness

Prioritize roles or situations where you have control over outcomes, as feeling helpless is a significant source of stress, whereas having agency, even with new burdens, can be less stressful.

7. Prioritize Home Life Seriously

Approach your home life with the same dedication as your work, understanding that your engagement, mannerisms, and interactions significantly shape your children’s development and who they become.

8. Meditate for Clarity & Conviction

Maintain a consistent meditation practice to improve mental clarity, enhance decision-making, and build conviction, as a lack of meditation can lead to cloudy thinking and increased reactivity.

9. Achieve Edge Without Edginess

By becoming more focused and less controlled by emotions, you can develop a powerful ’edge’ that enables clearer communication and calmer, more effective operation without being aggressive or carrying personal issues into professional interactions.

10. Embrace Mindfulness for High-Performers

For ambitious individuals and executive teams, embrace mindfulness coaching as a powerful skill-set that enhances performance and leads to positive changes, rather than viewing it as a sign of weakness.

11. Gradual Habit Experimentation

Approach new habit formation, like meditation, with a mindset of gradual experimentation, starting small and slowly increasing duration, while forgiving yourself for inconsistencies to avoid guilt that can undermine the practice.

12. Anchor Habits Consistently

Establish new habits by anchoring them into consistent parts of your daily routine, such as during a signal-free commute, to build a strong foundation before experimenting with increased duration.

13. Start Meditation Small

Don’t feel ashamed about short meditation sessions; even one minute counts, and starting with manageable durations like 12 minutes can lead to consistent practice.

14. Meditate for Work-Home Transition

Practice meditation on your commute home to mentally disengage from work and ensure you are fully present and engaged with your family upon arrival.

15. Identify Physical Tension Trigger Points

By focusing on your breath during meditation, you can identify and release habitual physical tension in areas like your jaw or shoulders that you might not consciously notice otherwise.

16. Practice Breath-Focused Mindfulness

Engage in mindfulness meditation by focusing solely on the sensation of your breath, allowing thoughts to pass, and gently noticing and releasing tension in different parts of your body to quiet your mind.

17. Adopt a “Start Over” Mindset

When your mind inevitably wanders during meditation, gently redirect your attention back to your anchor point, embracing the idea that it’s okay to ‘start back at the beginning’ without self-judgment.

18. Name Inner Thought Patterns

Observe and name your recurring ’neurotic programs’ or inner voices with silly titles; when they appear during meditation, acknowledge them without judgment and return to your breath to cultivate a more forgiving internal environment.

19. Identify Recurring Thought Themes

Observe that your inner voices often follow consistent, repetitive themes like anger or planning, which can be a humbling realization that helps you detach from them.

20. Observe Reactions Non-Judgmentally

When you find yourself overreacting, simply observe the pattern without self-blame, and practice allowing the reaction to pass without getting further caught up in it.

21. Untrain Reactive Habits

Consciously work to untrain deeply ingrained reactive behaviors, especially if your past experiences encouraged them, as developing more thoughtful responses is a skill that can be learned.

22. Utilize Meditation and Running for Sanity

During periods of high stress, actively use meditation and running as essential practices to maintain your mental well-being and keep yourself grounded.

23. Run for Mental Recentering

Incorporate running into your routine, such as in the mornings before work, as it can serve as a form of meditation to recenter yourself and manage stress.

24. Roll With Practice Fluctuations

Learn to approach the inevitable ups and downs in your meditation practice and its effects on your life with flexibility, rather than getting fixated on the quality of recent sessions.

25. Mindfulness for Context & Gratitude

Engage in mindfulness to remain present, gain perspective on your current situation, and foster appreciation for the circumstances you are experiencing.

26. Trust Post-Meditation Ideas

When creative thoughts emerge during meditation, trust that truly good ideas will persist and be available for recall once your session concludes, allowing you to maintain your focus on the practice.

27. Capture Genius Ideas Promptly

Don’t hesitate to interrupt your meditation to record a thought you genuinely believe is a genius idea, as it’s not ‘breaking a sacred law’ and can be beneficial.

28. Review Retreat Ideas Critically

After intense meditation periods like retreats, review any recorded ‘genius’ ideas with a critical eye, as their perceived value in the moment may not always translate to reality.

29. Heed Your Body’s Signals

Recognize that your body often provides crucial information about your well-being, even when your mind is in denial, so it’s important to pay attention to its signals.

30. Avoid Workplace Volatility

In today’s sensitive and social media-driven world, avoid volatile outbursts and aggressive behavior in the workplace, as such actions can quickly lead to severe professional consequences.

Meditation is not about feeling a certain way, it's about feeling whatever you feel clearly.

Dan Harris

I don't feel stressed, but my body is telling me something dramatically different.

Brad Katsuyama

The body knows even though the mind's in denial.

Dan Harris

You can't win at meditating.

Dan Harris

If it's truly a good idea, it will still be there when I stop meditating.

Dan Harris

The market's kind of like lost its mind.

Brad Katsuyama

If no one disliked what we were doing, I would question what we're doing.

Brad Katsuyama

Mindfulness is just an incredible like practice because you know sometimes you just have to kind of be in the moment and and recognize you know the situation that you're in and be appreciative of the fact that you know this is this is the hand you've been dealt.

Brad Katsuyama

Brad Katsuyama's Meditation Routine for Work-Life Balance

Brad Katsuyama
  1. Meditate on the train coming home from work to help leave work at work and be present for family.
  2. Meditate on the way to the airport.
  3. Meditate on the way home from the airport.
  4. Focus solely on the breath, the feeling of it coming in and going out.
  5. When thoughts arise, let them pass and try to focus on different areas that feel tense.
  6. The primary goal is to quiet the brain down and bridge the gap between being a CEO and being a present dad and husband.

Dan Harris's Technique for Dealing with Distracting Thoughts in Meditation

Dan Harris
  1. Notice the various neurotic programs or 'voices' that run in your own mind, observing that they often run in patterns (e.g., five or six recurring voices).
  2. Give these recurring voices silly names (e.g., 'El Grandioso' for the voice that tells you how awesome you are, or 'Sammy' for the ambitious, striving voice).
  3. When a named voice appears during meditation, acknowledge it warmly, as if greeting an old acquaintance (e.g., 'Oh, what's up [name]? Welcome to the party.').
  4. After acknowledging the thought, gently move back to focusing on the breath, without getting angry or beating yourself up for getting lost in thought.
  5. This practice aims to create a more forgiving inner atmosphere, training yourself not to whip your back every time you get lost.
12 minutes
Brad Katsuyama's meditation duration Daily, when consistent
120 minutes
Dan Harris's current daily meditation duration Literally 10 times Brad's minimum
Since 2012
Time Brad has been meditating On and off, more significantly in recent years
Coming on 9 years
Dan Harris's meditation practice duration As of the recording
2 milliseconds
Difference in arrival time from Bats to NYSE for RBC Two one-thousandths of a second
476 microseconds
Difference in arrival time from Bats to NYSE for high-speed traders via Ronan Ryan's network Four times faster than RBC's 2 milliseconds
300 milliseconds
Time it takes to blink an eye For comparison to trading speeds
560,000 shares
IEX's first day trading volume Representing a couple million dollars in trading
10.7 billion dollars
IEX's record daily trading volume Of trades happening on IEX
2 years
Duration of IEX's exchange license approval process From the SEC
2.7 billion dollars
Annual payments by NYSE, Nasdaq, and Bats to brokers To send them orders, referred to as 'kickbacks'
7, 5, and 2
Brad Katsuyama's kids' ages Brandon is 7, Rylan is 5, Emmy is 2