Chodo and Koshin

May 25, 2016 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Sensei Robert Chodo Campbell and Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison, co-founders of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, discuss how confronting death's inevitability through Zen practice and hospice work can lead to a more vivid, engaged, and compassionate life. They share personal journeys and the transformative power of being present with suffering.

At a Glance
15 Insights
1h 6m Duration
10 Topics
4 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Death, Impermanence, and Buddhist Practice

Sensei Koshin's Early Life and Path to Zen

Koshin's Grandmother Mimi: Inspiration for Contemplative Care

Sensei Chodo's Challenging Childhood and Reckless Youth

Chodo's Journey to Sobriety and Discovery of Zen

The New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care: Mission and Programs

The Transformative Power of Facing Death and Dying

Personal Perspectives on the Fear and Process of Death

The Interplay of Service and Self-Interest in Caregiving

Overview of the Book: 'Awake at the Bedside'

Buddhism as Practice

Buddhism is presented not as a faith to believe in, but as a discipline that involves rigorous and repetitive actions. This practice forces individuals to confront the fundamental reality of impermanence, including its personal application to one's own life.

Charnel Ground Meditation

This refers to an ancient Buddhist practice where practitioners would meditate in charnel grounds, places where dead bodies were left to decompose. The purpose was to directly observe and confront the reality of death and the impermanence of the physical body.

Intimacy with Dying

This concept involves learning to approach spaces of sickness and death with profound closeness and openness. It means stripping away societal veneers and realizing a shared humanity and impermanence with the person who is suffering or dying, fostering a deep connection.

Engaged Practice

This describes how meditation and spiritual principles extend beyond formal sitting practice into active, intimate engagement with everyday life and relationships. It emphasizes being fully present and available in all interactions, especially in challenging caregiving situations.

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Why is it so difficult for people to think about death?

People exhibit significant resistance to contemplating death, often isolating older individuals in nursing homes and cosmetically altering bodies in open caskets, thereby avoiding this fundamental reality.

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How does Zen Buddhism approach the reality of death?

Zen Buddhist practice compels individuals to rigorously and repeatedly confront the stark truth of impermanence, including its personal implications for their own existence.

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What is the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care?

It is an organization co-founded by Sensei Robert Chodo Campbell and Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison that provides study programs, direct care, and meditation training, teaching people to integrate meditation and ethical care into their relationships and professional roles, particularly in end-of-life care.

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Why do the Zen priests who work with death exhibit lightness and humor?

Confronting the reality of death makes life more vivid and beautiful, stripping away superficial concerns and highlighting the preciousness of each moment, which cultivates a deeper appreciation for life and can manifest as lightness.

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Are the Zen priests who work with dying people no longer afraid of death?

Koshin states he is not afraid of the *idea* of death and is curious about the process, but acknowledges that people die very differently and he doesn't know what his own dying will be like. Chodo admits he is still concerned about the *process* of dying, particularly the helplessness and prolonged dependence that can accompany a lingering death.

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What is the Buddhist view on assisted dying?

Koshin states that 'to take a life is not correct view,' indicating a traditional Buddhist stance against it, while Chodo admits his personal preference for assisted dying in certain circumstances is a 'heretical position' for a Buddhist.

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How does training in contemplative care transform a person?

The training helps individuals confront their fears surrounding death and dying, become more present, and deepen their relationships by seeing loved ones and even strangers through new eyes, appreciating their impermanence and the preciousness of each moment.

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Is there a self-serving aspect to service work like hospice care?

Yes, for some, like Chodo, a life of service helps maintain sobriety and keeps them present to their good fortune, providing a safe way to engage with the world. Koshin, however, views it more as becoming more 'awake' and 'in the river of practice.'

1. Confront Impermanence for Full Living

Radically reorient your life to confront the fact of impermanence and death, as avoiding this reality deprives you of living fully and being completely engaged in your life.

2. Practice Buddhism, Don’t Just Believe

Engage with Buddhism as a practice or something to ‘do,’ rather than just a belief system, to rigorously and repetitively confront the reality of impermanence and its personal application.

3. Shut Up and Listen to the Moment

Practice shutting up and listening to the present moment, letting go of past stories and focusing on what is happening now, as this moment is what’s important.

4. Meditate to Quiet Your Mind

Engage in meditation practice, even if initially difficult, to quiet a ‘crazy’ mind, reduce resistance to situations, and enable fuller, freer participation in life.

5. Cultivate Unconditional Love

Strive to love people fully, including all parts of them, not just the aspects you want or like, as this is a profound understanding of what it means to truly love someone.

6. Sit with Dying to Strip Veneer

Spend time sitting with dying and sick people to strip away societal veneers, gain extraordinary insight, and allow their awareness of limited days to profoundly change you.

7. Cultivate Present Relationships

Learn to be deeply engaged and present in relationships, taking in the whole environment and internal states, to foster intimacy with everyone you encounter.

8. Experience Life in Technicolor

Cultivate an awareness of life’s impermanence to bring each day into ’technicolor,’ prompting you to consider how you want to be in each moment.

9. Don’t Miss Opportunities to Love/Appreciate

Do not miss opportunities to love and appreciate, especially when confronting the reality of life’s brevity.

10. Be Present with Loved Ones

View your loved ones, especially family, through new eyes, recognizing their impermanence and experiencing them moment by moment, particularly after confronting suffering or death.

11. Engage in Service for Sobriety

Engage in a life of service to others, as it can help keep you sober, present, and aware of your good fortune, acting as a grounding force.

12. Turn Towards Your Fears

Actively turn towards and confront what is scary or your fears, as this process can be invigorating and lead to personal growth.

13. Prioritize People Over Devices

Re-evaluate your priorities, recognizing that human connection and presence, especially with children, are more important than distractions like cell phones.

14. Address Fading Interpersonal Connections

Recognize the decline in interpersonal relationships and communication in modern culture, prompting a need to re-engage more deeply with others.

15. Undertake Contemplative Care Training

Consider undertaking contemplative care training to learn how to care for people, integrate meditation, and face your fears around death and dying, potentially transforming your life.

We spend some of our time with people who know that they're dying and the rest of the time we're spending time with people who don't know that they're dying.

Koshin Paley Ellison

To not look at this thing called death and dying is a deprivation because we're not living fully and not fully engaged in our life if we're not looking at the fact that ultimately this life as we know it is going to end.

Koshin Paley Ellison

This life of ours is short, this life is not infinite. You know, we're going to – at some point, this is going to be me in that bed. So do I want to spend the rest of my life fearing that or embracing the life that I have?

Koshin Paley Ellison

The gig is up. You've got to stop.

Robert Chodo Campbell

This moment is what's important. Yes, all the rest informed your life. All the rest got you here today talking to me. But you've got to let it go.

Leah (Chodo's Zen teacher)

I've come so far, I'm not going to get, it's not going to take me out.

Robert Chodo Campbell

To me, the great fear, the greatest fear that I think all of us have are meeting the realities of that, our aging, our illness and death.

Koshin Paley Ellison
8 years old
Age Koshin aspired to be a Zen Buddhist monk Inspired by a National Geographic photo of a monk in Tokyo.
17 years old
Age Koshin met his first Zen teacher John Dido-Lurie at Naropa University.
10 years
Years Koshin initially 'hated' meditating Despite disliking it, he kept returning to the practice.
8 years old
Age Chodo began caring for his alcoholic mother In Birmingham, England, making sure there was food and bathing her black eyes.
12 years old
Age Chodo taught his mother how to change a baby's diaper For his younger brother, born when Chodo was 12.
16 years old
Age Chodo left home After a violent encounter with his stepfather.
23 years old
Age Chodo was warned by a doctor about a bleeding ulcer due to drinking He attempted to quit drinking by moving to a kibbutz in Israel, but failed.
1983
Year Chodo moved to New York City To open an office for a printing company, continuing a wild lifestyle.
3 years
Years Chodo spent on a 'roller coaster' of clubbing, drugs, and alcohol in New York Pushing the envelope and putting himself in dangerous situations.
28 years
Years Chodo has been clean and sober Since attending his first Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.
5 years
Years into sobriety Chodo was diagnosed HIV positive Doctors predicted he had 24 months to live if he didn't take AZT, which he refused.
9 months
Duration of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care's national training program For anyone interested in integrating meditation and care in their relationships.
35 students
Approximate number of students taken by the Zen Center per year for training Despite a high attrition rate for continuing hospice work, all students complete the course.
70%
Approximate percentage of students who do not continue in hospice or hospital work after training They often feel transformed but choose not to work directly in those settings.
75 applications
Number of applications received in the first year of the training program Exceeding initial expectations of five interested individuals.
32 states
Number of states where the Zen Center has trained people Establishing a network of caregivers across the country.
50 years ago
Timeframe when people commonly died at home in the Western world Before the shift towards institutionalized care in nursing homes, hospitals, and hospices.