Conflict Is Normal. Here's How To Keep It Healthy And Avoid Disaster. | Amanda Ripley

Oct 7, 2024 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Guest Amanda Ripley, author of "High Conflict," discusses distinguishing healthy conflict from high conflict, which is magnetic but destructive. She outlines five steps to avoid or exit high conflict, including investigating understories, reducing binaries, marginalizing "fire starters," buying time with techniques like "looping," and complicating narratives.

At a Glance
17 Insights
1h 12m Duration
19 Topics
7 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Defining Healthy Conflict vs. High Conflict

The Magnetic and Trapping Nature of High Conflict

Diagnosing High Conflict in Your Own Life

Cultural Factors Driving the Age of High Conflict

Neurological Effects of High Conflict

When High Conflict Can Be Useful (Briefly)

Step 1: Investigating the Understory of Conflict

Step 2: Reducing the Binary in Conflict

Step 3: Marginalizing the Fire Starters (Humiliation, Corruption, Conflict Entrepreneurs)

Identifying and Understanding Conflict Entrepreneurs

Avoiding the Temptation to Humiliate Opponents

Step 4: Buying Time and Making Space in Conflict

The Power of Looping for Understanding

Step 5: Complicating the Narrative

Paths Out of High Conflict and Setting Boundaries

Mantras for Navigating Internal Conflict

Contact Theory: An Antidote to Prejudice

Practical Tips: Rhythmic Breathing and Distraction

Interacting with News and Social Media During Elections

High Conflict

This is conflict that escalates beyond the facts, becoming an 'us versus them' situation where hope for the other side seems lost. It's a perpetual motion machine that feeds on itself, often leading individuals to harm the very thing they initially sought to protect.

Healthy Conflict

Also called 'good conflict,' this type of conflict involves discomfort and friction but is essential for growth and challenge. It's characterized by a 'galaxy of emotions' including anger, frustration, sadness, but also flashes of curiosity, understanding, and humor, indicating movement and a lack of stagnation.

Splitting

A psychological phenomenon where people, especially when afraid or uneasy, divide the world into clear 'us' and 'them' categories, knowing for sure who the enemy is and that their own side is good. This simplification makes it easier to know whose side to be on but hinders progress on problems by obscuring complexity.

Understory of Conflict

Beyond the surface-level issue a conflict appears to be about, the 'understory' is the underlying fuel or engine of the conflict. It typically revolves around one of four core issues: respect and recognition, care and concern, stress and overwhelm, or power and control, often rooted in primal fear.

Conflict Entrepreneurs

These are individuals or entities that exploit and inflame conflict for their own benefit, whether for attention, financial gain, or a sense of power/belonging. They often use other 'fire starters' like humiliation, false binaries, and accusations of corruption to fuel the conflict.

Looping for Understanding

A technique where you listen intently to another person, distill what they've said into your own words, and play it back to them to confirm understanding, asking 'is that right?' This process slows down the conversation, shows the other person you are trying to understand them, and helps you stay present.

Contact Theory

A well-researched concept stating that putting different people together under specific conditions (equal footing, shared identity, meaningful encounter) reduces prejudice and contempt between them. It's considered the most proven antidote to all forms of prejudice, including racism, and can also be experienced vicariously through media.

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What is the fundamental difference between healthy conflict and high conflict?

Healthy conflict involves friction and discomfort but leads to growth and understanding, characterized by a range of emotions and movement. High conflict, however, escalates beyond facts into an 'us vs. them' dynamic, feels stuck, and often leads to harming what one initially sought to protect.

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How can I tell if I'm caught in high conflict?

Signs include using sweeping or violent language, the presence of rumors or conspiracy theories, people withdrawing leaving only two extremes, and the conflict having its own self-perpetuating momentum. You might also notice yourself using 'splitting' language, dividing people into 'good' and 'bad'.

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What does high conflict do to the human brain and body?

High conflict literally causes tunnel vision, making you lose peripheral vision and miss opportunities. It also leads to spikes in cortisol, a stress hormone that impairs the immune system, degrades memory and concentration, weakens muscle tissue and bones, and accelerates disease.

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Is it ever beneficial to engage in high conflict?

High conflict can be energizing and motivating, bonding people together and galvanizing social movements. However, it's very difficult to sustain without demanding purity, turning on each other, and ultimately harming the cause, making its beneficial use rare and short-lived.

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What are the common underlying issues that fuel conflicts?

Most conflicts are really about one of four understories: respect and recognition, care and concern, stress and overwhelm, or power and control. These deeper issues, often rooted in primal fear, drive the surface-level disagreements.

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How can I identify a 'conflict entrepreneur' in my life or in the media?

Conflict entrepreneurs seem to thrive when things are going badly, showing excitement rather than compassion. They often frame everything as a humiliation, split the world into good and evil, and describe everything as corrupt, making it seem like no one can be trusted except them.

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Why is humiliating an opponent in a conflict a bad strategy?

Humiliation is considered the 'nuclear bomb of emotions' and a sure way to escalate conflict, as there's 'no one more dangerous than one who's been humiliated.' While it might feel like winning, it often leads to a Pyrrhic victory where the humiliated party will seek revenge indefinitely.

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How can I balance setting boundaries with not giving up on people in conflict?

You can have both guardrails and limits, engaging in small doses with carefully prepared conversations and agreed-upon rules of engagement. The key is to remain in relationship, issuing an invitation to discuss things differently and showing a small amount of vulnerability.

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What is the best way to interact with social media during a presidential election to avoid high conflict?

It's advisable to avoid engaging in warfare on social media and to notice when your heart rate goes up or you feel a fear response, then put the phone down. Some platforms or curated feeds can offer healthy distraction (e.g., animal videos, comedy clips) rather than polarizing content.

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How should I consume news to stay informed without becoming overwhelmed or losing my mind?

Avoid starting your day with news that amps up your nervous system; push it to later in the day. Intentionally seek out stories that encourage progress and hope, as the brain tends to gravitate towards threatening narratives. Look for news outlets that you feel are 'rooting for humanity' and provide a wider perspective.

1. Cultivate Internal Good Conflict

Focus on maintaining ‘good conflict’ within your own mind, especially when external conflict is out of your control, to reduce misery, improve sleep, and identify openings for useful action.

2. Practice Looping for Understanding

Slow down conflict by practicing ’looping for understanding’: paraphrase what the other person has said in your own words, then check if you’ve understood them correctly, showing you are genuinely trying to listen.

3. Uncover Conflict’s Understory

Look beyond the surface of a conflict to identify its true ‘understory,’ which often revolves around issues of respect, care, stress, or power, to engage in more meaningful and effective resolution.

4. Set Boundaries, Issue Invitations

Maintain relationships by setting clear boundaries and rules for difficult conversations, engaging in small doses. Issue an ‘invitation’ to discuss things differently, expressing vulnerability and asking if the other person also desires a change in dynamic.

5. Resist Binary Thinking

Avoid categorizing people or situations into ‘us vs. them’ binaries, even internally, as this oversimplifies complex realities and prevents progress in resolving conflict.

6. Avoid Public Humiliation

When in conflict, remove any audience to prevent public humiliation of the other party, as this emotion can escalate conflict and lead to lasting animosity.

7. Identify & Avoid Conflict Entrepreneurs

Recognize ‘conflict entrepreneurs’ who inflame disputes for personal gain by observing if they delight in others’ suffering or constantly frame issues as disrespectful; distance yourself from them and avoid becoming one.

8. Use Mantras for Inner Peace

Employ internal mantras like ‘dead end’ to halt unproductive mental arguments and ’love no matter what’ to cultivate understanding of others’ motivations, thereby reducing internal conflict and promoting inner peace.

9. Practice Rhythmic Breathing

Regularly practice rhythmic breathing techniques, such as box breathing (inhale 4, hold 4, exhale 4, hold 4), to consciously calm your nervous system, enabling you to automatically apply this skill during stressful conflict situations.

10. Utilize Intentional Distraction

When feeling overwhelmed by conflict, intentionally distract your brain by focusing on unrelated details or activities, which can slow down the conflict and shift your focus away from an unhelpful threat response.

11. Maintain Key Relationships

Strive to maintain relationships with people you care about, even amidst significant disagreements, as these connections can provide a crucial path out of high conflict for all parties involved.

12. Engage in Contact Theory

Actively seek meaningful interactions with diverse individuals under conditions of equal footing and shared purpose, or consume media that facilitates vicarious understanding of different perspectives, as this reduces prejudice and bias.

13. Diagnose High Conflict Tendencies

Regularly check for signs of high conflict in your own life, such as using grandiose language, the presence of rumors, withdrawal of moderate voices, or if the conflict feels self-perpetuating, to identify if you’ve crossed the line.

14. Practice Counterintuitive Conflict Moves

Recognize that intuitive reactions in high conflict situations often exacerbate the problem; instead, prepare and practice counterintuitive strategies to effectively disengage or de-escalate.

15. Complicate Simple Narratives

Be suspicious of overly simple stories in conflict and actively seek to complicate the narrative by asking questions that reveal nuance, such as what’s oversimplified or where people feel torn, to foster curiosity and deeper understanding.

16. Mindful Social Media Use

Engage with social media mindfully, prioritizing content that supports ‘good conflict’ or healthy distraction, and immediately disengage by putting your phone down if you notice a rising heart rate or fear response.

17. Curate News Consumption

Avoid starting your day with news and instead consume it later, actively seeking out stories of progress and news outlets that ‘root for humanity’ to maintain a balanced perspective and prevent early-day nervous system activation.

The most diabolical part is every high conflict I've ever studied or been in. You eventually harm the thing you went into the fight to protect, whether it's your kids or your country, usually without knowing it.

Amanda Ripley

It is a little bit of a slow death by a thousand cuts for your soul, right? Physically, mentally, spiritually. It is very hard to live in high conflict. It's easy to visit, but to live there is very taxing.

Amanda Ripley

In high conflict, anything you do, any intuitive thing you do to get out of the conflict will probably make it worse. So you have to do counterintuitive things, which takes some preparation and practice.

Amanda Ripley

Humiliation, Evelyn Lindner, who studies conflict and war, she calls humiliation the nuclear bomb of the emotions. And it is a sure way to supersize a conflict.

Amanda Ripley

There's no one more dangerous than ones who's been humiliated, even when you humiliate him rightly.

Amanda Ripley (quoting Nelson Mandela)

We are all going to die one day. Right? Just to remember, everyone in this room is going to be dead. So relax. This is not the end, but there will be an end and no one will be spared. So kind of puts you all on the same team.

Amanda Ripley (quoting Norman Fisher)

Five Steps for Getting Out of or Avoiding High Conflict

Amanda Ripley
  1. Investigate the understory: Identify what the conflict is really about, usually one of four things: respect/recognition, care/concern, stress/overwhelm, or power/control.
  2. Reduce the binary: Avoid forming unnecessary groups or 'us vs. them' divisions, even in your own head, to see the complexity of people and situations.
  3. Marginalize the fire starters: Watch out for and try to mitigate the four conditions that lead to high conflict: humiliation, false binaries, corruption (real or perceived), and the presence of conflict entrepreneurs.
  4. Buy time and make space: Intentionally slow down the conflict, using techniques like 'looping for understanding' or physical distraction to calm the nervous system and create distance.
  5. Complicate the narrative: Ask different questions of others and yourself to move beyond simple, clichéd stories. Seek out nuances, torn feelings, and perspectives that are often oversimplified.

Looping for Understanding

Amanda Ripley
  1. Listen to what the other person is saying, really trying to understand their perspective.
  2. Distill what you heard into your own language, summarizing their main points and emotions.
  3. Play it back to them to see if you got it right, explicitly asking 'is that right?' or 'did I understand you correctly?'

Mantras for Navigating Internal High Conflict

Dan Harris (quoting Joseph Goldstein)
  1. Use 'dead end' to signal that you've thought about a particular internal argument or talk track enough and there's nothing more to be gained.
  2. Use 'love no matter what' as an aspirational reminder to approach the situation with understanding, acknowledging that others have their own reasons for their actions, even if you don't agree.
80%
Estimated percentage of people in violent high conflict who want to get out According to Curtis Toler, a former gang leader working to interrupt violence in Chicago.
500+
Number of experiments studying contact theory Conducted all around the world, demonstrating its effectiveness as an antidote to prejudice.
1,500+
Number of journalists trained in looping by Good Conflict Trained by Amanda Ripley's business partner, Helene Bien-Duty Hofer.
1,000+
Number of non-journalists trained in looping by Good Conflict Trained by Amanda Ripley and Helene Bien-Duty Hofer.