David Gelles

Mar 30, 2016 Episode Page ↗
Overview

David Gelles, a New York Times reporter and author of "Mindful Work," discusses his personal meditation journey and the rise of mindfulness in corporate America. He explores the "mindfulness economy," its benefits, and critiques, while also sharing practical "mindfulness hacks" for daily life.

At a Glance
23 Insights
54m 45s Duration
15 Topics
7 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

David Gelles' Introduction to Meditation

Intensive Study of Vipassana in India

Manindraji's Legacy and Secular Mindfulness

Integrating Sporadic Meditation into a Busy Life

David's Personal Meditation Practices

Cultivating Compassion and Kindness

Mindfulness 'Hacks' for Daily Life

Professional Advantages of Mindfulness Practice

Investigating Corporate Mindfulness for 'Mindful Work'

Observations on Corporate Mindfulness Adoption

Addressing the 'McMindfulness' Critique

The Commercialization of Mindfulness ('Mindfulness, Inc.')

Debate on Mindfulness in Public Schools

The Need for Mindfulness Teacher Standardization

Future Outlook for Mindfulness Movement

Vipassana Meditation

Also known as insight meditation, it focuses on moment-to-moment awareness. It involves observing thoughts, emotions, and sensations as they arise and letting them go, often without actively pushing them away.

Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)

A secularized version of meditation developed by Jon Kabat-Zinn, which has become widely adopted in scientific and public health contexts. It aims to reduce stress and improve well-being through mindfulness practices.

Open Awareness Meditation

A practice where one notices thoughts, emotions, and sensations as they arise, naming them, and trying to let them go without actively pushing them away. It's about observing the full field of experience.

Concentration Meditation

A practice that involves focusing attention on a single sensation, such as the air passing in and out of the nostrils or the space beneath the nose, to train the mind's focus.

Body Scan Meditation

A methodical practice of moving one's attention from head to toe and back again, noticing very subtle, fine-grained sensations in the body that might not be apparent during normal activity.

Compassion (Metta) Practice

An ancient Indian practice (Pali word for loving kindness) that involves internally wishing well for oneself, loved ones, others in the world, strangers, and all sentient beings. The goal is to cultivate a consistent orientation of kindness, generosity, and compassion, rather than expecting external outcomes.

No Self / Selflessness

A core Buddhist concept, which suggests that the 'you' that feels like a constant, propulsive force in one's life actually doesn't exist as a fixed entity. This idea can run counter to the theological concept of a soul in Abrahamic faiths.

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How and when did David Gelles start meditating?

He started on New Year's Day 1999, at age 19, after reading a book on Buddhism, which offered a way to understand suffering.

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What is the connection between David Gelles' teacher Manindraji and modern secular mindfulness?

Manindraji taught Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salzberg, who co-founded the Insight Meditation Society, which in turn influenced Jon Kabat-Zinn's creation of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), the secularized version now widely adopted.

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How does a busy person like David Gelles find time to meditate?

He practices sporadically, often in small moments throughout the day, such as walking to the subway, on the subway, or at his desk, using 'hacks' to integrate mindfulness.

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What specific meditation practices does David Gelles use?

He practices open awareness, breath concentration, body scans, and compassion (metta) meditation, adapting his approach based on what feels right at the moment.

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Can meditation be pleasurable?

Yes, David Gelles has experienced pleasurable sensations during body scans, though he tries not to get attached to them or seek them out, recognizing that meditation is not always blissful.

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How can one cultivate kindness and compassion?

Through practices like metta meditation, which involves internally wishing well for oneself and others, one can train and habituate themselves to act in more accepting, less reactive, and kinder ways, changing their orientation.

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Does mindfulness help professionally in competitive environments?

Yes, David Gelles believes it helps him remain motivated and engaged without constant self-judging, allowing him to proceed in a more equanimous fashion through successes and failures, and move on more quickly from mistakes.

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What is the 'McMindfulness' critique?

This critique, often from traditional Buddhists, argues that secular mindfulness is a perversion of ancient teachings, taught by inadequately trained people, with the intention of creating more compliant workers rather than promoting genuine happiness and compassion.

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Has something been lost in the translation of mindfulness to the corporate world?

While traditional Buddhist foundational principles are not fully replicated, a new kind of secular mindfulness has evolved focusing on stress reduction, focus, and an accepting mindset, which is valid even if it's not a tool for liberation or enlightenment.

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What is 'The Hidden Price of Mindfulness, Inc.'?

It refers to the proliferation and commercialization of mindfulness products and services (e.g., 'mindful mayo'), leading to a 'mindful economy' where people might mistakenly believe that simply by buying into it, they are being mindful, rather than engaging in sincere practice.

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Is teaching mindfulness in public schools a valid concern for religious parents?

While overtly Hindu or Buddhist practices might be a legitimate concern, secular mindfulness techniques are distinct. They are not reliant on a Buddhist worldview to be effective and can verifiably help children with calming down, honing attention, and building empathy, similar to how physical exercise builds body muscles.

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Does secular mindfulness inexorably lead to conclusions counter to Abrahamic faiths (e.g., 'no self' vs. 'soul')?

David Gelles believes simple secular mindfulness practice does not necessarily lead towards a realization of 'no self' or other Buddhist philosophical conclusions, especially not within an eight-week MBSR course.

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How can listeners find quality mindfulness teachers given the lack of standardization?

There is currently no 'Good Housekeeping seal of approval.' David Gelles proposes a national organization of mindfulness, involving key figures from both secular and traditional Buddhist communities, to create a baseline curriculum and ensure the essential practice remains intact.

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Where is the mindfulness movement heading?

David Gelles has a pessimistic view that it could become commercialized and commoditized like yoga, with bizarre mutations making it harder for laypeople to find quality teachings. However, he also has an optimistic view that it will lead more people to take interest in their mental health, stress regulation, acceptance, kindness, and compassion.

1. Cultivate Equanimity in Professional Life

Work hard without constant self-judgment, not clinging to successes or failures, and moving on swiftly from mistakes to maintain a more balanced and unruffled approach in competitive environments.

2. Practice Metta (Loving-Kindness) Meditation

Engage in Metta meditation by internally wishing well for yourself, loved ones, strangers, and all sentient beings. This practice aims to cultivate a consistent orientation of kindness, generosity, and compassion, changing your inner state rather than expecting external outcomes.

3. Integrate Short Mindfulness Moments

Incorporate brief, frequent moments of mindfulness throughout your day, such as during walks or pauses, understanding these ‘hacks’ are useful for checking in but are not a substitute for longer, more rigorous formal practice.

4. Develop Mindfulness ‘Hacks’ for Routines

Create specific cues or routines to trigger short mindfulness practices, like the ‘phone exercise’ (letting it ring once or twice before answering) or walking meditation during a hallway stroll, to interrupt daily velocity and return to the present moment.

5. Start Formal Meditation (Beginners)

For beginners, initiate a formal meditation practice with short durations (5-10 minutes daily), recognizing that even brief, consistent practice is beneficial and can lay a foundational habit.

6. Practice Open Awareness Meditation

Begin meditation by practicing open awareness, noticing thoughts, emotions, and sensations as they arise, naming them, and then letting them go without actively pushing them away.

7. Practice Concentration Meditation

Engage in concentration meditation by picking one specific sensation, such as the feeling of air passing in and out of your nostrils, and focusing on it to train your attention.

8. Practice Body Scan Meditation

Methodically move your attention through your body from head to toe (and back again) to notice subtle, fine-grained sensations. This exercise helps settle the mind and body, revealing sensations not readily apparent during busy daily life.

9. Cultivate Kindness & Compassion

Deliberately train yourself to be more accepting, less reactive, and kinder, recognizing that these positive qualities can be cultivated through practice, similar to how negative habits are formed.

10. Embrace Secular Mindfulness

Engage with secular mindfulness practices for benefits like stress reduction, improved focus, and an accepting mindset, understanding that it may not replicate traditional Buddhist principles but is still valid and beneficial.

11. Prioritize Compassion Practices

Actively promote and engage in compassion practices (like Metta) alongside mindfulness, acknowledging their scientific backing for improving health, happiness, and reducing negative interpersonal behaviors.

12. Frame Corporate Mindfulness as Wellness

When introducing mindfulness in a professional setting, position it as a wellness offering aimed at reducing employee stress and improving health, akin to smoking cessation programs or gym memberships.

13. Understand Mindfulness Requires Practice

Recognize that genuine mindfulness is achieved through consistent personal practice, not merely by consuming products or services labeled ‘mindful’ or participating in the ‘mindful economy’.

14. View Meditation as Mental Training

Conceptualize mindfulness and meditation as a form of mental exercise, similar to going to the gym, to build mental ‘muscles’ for concentration, focus, and deliberate mind control.

15. Support Secular Mindfulness in Schools

Advocate for the teaching of purely secular mindfulness techniques in schools to help children develop essential ‘muscles’ of attention and empathy, without religious undertones.

16. Seek Formal Meditation Instruction

Actively look for and attend meditation retreats or centers to receive formal instruction and guidance in various meditation techniques, such as Zen sitting or Vipassana.

17. Study with Experienced Teachers

Seek out and spend quality time studying with experienced meditation masters or teachers to deepen your practice and understanding, as their guidance can be profound.

18. Investigate Personal-Professional Connections

Pay attention to unexpected connections between your personal practices (like meditation) and potential professional opportunities, and actively explore them as they may lead to significant career shifts or projects.

19. Read Introductory Books

Begin your journey into mindfulness or Buddhism by reading introductory books to gain foundational knowledge and understanding of core concepts like the Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path.

20. Advocate for Mindfulness Standards

Support the creation of a national organization and a baseline curriculum for mindfulness instruction to ensure quality, integrity, and consistency in teachings across various institutions like military, schools, corporations, and prisons.

21. Approach Mindfulness with Right Intention

Engage in mindfulness practice primarily for personal well-being and growth, rather than solely for instrumental or performance-driven goals like being a ‘better salesperson,’ as intention matters in the Buddhist tradition.

22. Manage Expectations for Secular Mindfulness

Understand that secular mindfulness, while beneficial for stress reduction and focus, may not necessarily lead to profound spiritual realizations like ’no-self’ in a short course, and it’s okay for it to evolve differently from traditional paths.

23. Encourage Interest in Mental Health

Promote and encourage general interest in mindfulness as a proxy for more people taking interest in their own mental health, stress regulation, self-acceptance, kindness towards self and others, and overall compassion in the world.

In the same way that going to the gym can build up certain muscles in the body, practicing meditation can build up certain muscles in the brain, to speak, you know, metaphorically.

David Gelles

The Buddha's goal was not for you to be less stressed. It was for, it was for you to see that the you, that is the propulsive force in your life, this you that chases you out of bed in the morning and is yammering at you all day long, actually doesn't exist.

Dan Harris

I described myself very overtly and honestly as a sporadic meditator.

David Gelles

It's not just finding those uninterrupted stretches of 40 minutes to sit in half lotus position... It's small moments many times.

David Gelles

I have a concern that mindfulness as we know it, as we're talking about it, could become unrecognizable in some of its permutations left unchecked.

David Gelles

It's not enough to buy into mindfulness. You have to practice it too.

David Gelles

We don't teach our children and we don't rarely teach ourselves how to control our minds, how to concentrate, how to use our focus and train it on something deliberately.

David Gelles

moment-to-moment awareness. And whatever it is you're doing, just do that.

Manindraji (as quoted by David Gelles)

Phone Exercise for Mindfulness

David Gelles
  1. Let the phone ring once.
  2. Let it ring twice.
  3. Use this brief pause to return to the present moment, clear your mind from previous tasks, and interrupt the rush of your day.

Walking Meditation Hack

David Gelles
  1. Put your phone away.
  2. Walk at a slightly slower pace than your usual hurried speed, but not unnaturally slowly.
  3. Feel the sensations of your legs moving and your body in motion.
  4. Notice when your mind gets distracted by thoughts or emotions, acknowledge them, and let them go, returning attention to the physical sensations of walking.
1999
Year David Gelles began meditating New Year's Day.
19
David Gelles' age at first meditation At the time he read an introductory Buddhism book.
1.5 years
Duration of David Gelles' Zen sitting practice Before going to India.
3 months
Duration David Gelles spent in Burmese Vihar, India Studying with different teachers.
2,600 years
Time since traditional Buddhist teachings originated Mentioned in context of secular mindfulness evolution.
3 decades
Approximate evolution of secular mindfulness in the U.S. Starting with Jon Kabat-Zinn's MBSR.
Almost $1 billion
Value of meditation services sold in 2015 Reported by research firm Ibisworld.
5 to 10 minutes
Suggested daily meditation duration for beginners Dan Harris's suggestion for starting a formal practice.
20 to 50 hours
Proposed baseline curriculum duration for mindfulness instruction For introductory instruction by a national organization.