Duncan Trussell on: Being a Spiritual Omnivore, Whether Psychedelics Are a Bridge to the Divine, and How the Gates of Hell Are Locked From the Inside
Dan Harris interviews comedian Duncan Trussell, who shares his spiritually omnivorous journey through suffering, meditation, psychedelics, and his interpretation of God, discussing how these practices help him navigate life and Hollywood's challenges.
Deep Dive Analysis
16 Topic Outline
Introduction to Duncan Trussell and His Spiritual Journey
Why Duncan Dislikes the 'Buddhist Comedian' Label
Duncan's Path to Formal Buddhist Practice
The Nature of Suffering and 'Suffering Snobbery'
Personal Suffering: Loss and Illness
Connecting to God and Transcendent Reality
Interpreting Jesus and Christian Concepts
The Dangers of Spiritual Materialism and Leapfrogging Traditions
The 'Pull' Towards Spiritual Exploration
Defining 'Christ Consciousness' and Subjective Experience
Buddhist Hell Realms as Psychological States
Navigating Hollywood with Spiritual Practice
Psychedelics as a Bridge to the Divine
Overlap Between Comedy and Contemplative Practice
Ambition, Ego, and Grief in a Spiritual Context
The Universe's Capacity for Love and Fundamental Goodness
6 Key Concepts
Suffering Snobbery
This is a form of snobbery where an individual who perceives themselves as suffering views another person's suffering as less legitimate or significant compared to their own. It creates a bizarre hierarchy of pain, diminishing empathy and understanding.
Transcendent Reality / God
Duncan describes this as a benevolent strata of reality or a personified benevolence that seems 'absolutely smitten' with humanity, not narcissistically, but in a parental, loving way. It's a personal connection that doesn't require external proof, often experienced as a 'delight'.
Spiritual Materialism
This concept, from Chogyam Trungpa, warns against treating spiritual traditions like a 'shop that sells religious gizmos,' where one 'leapfrogs' from one practice to another when suffering arises. The invitation is to 'hold your hand to the fire' within one tradition before moving on.
Buddhist Hell Realms
While traditionally seen as places one goes after death, Duncan's teacher interprets these as psychological states experienced in the present moment. Hell, in this context, is characterized by complete disconnect from the world, absolute selfishness, and preoccupation with one's own problems.
Samsaric Pattern
This Buddhist concept refers to recurring cycles or loops of behavior and experience that a person finds themselves in, often feeling like the 'same relationship' or 'same problems' keep happening. It suggests these patterns extend beyond a single lifetime, allowing for greater self-compassion.
Fundamental Goodness
In Buddhism, this refers to the inherent perfection and beauty that exists underneath all of humanity's stories and individual experiences. It suggests that at its core, reality is fundamentally good, and love is an experience of this underlying truth.
8 Questions Answered
He finds the label 'cheesy' and believes attaching a religion to a performer's craft dilutes it, similar to how 'Christian comedian' or 'Christian rock' might be perceived.
A friend and future teacher, David Nickturn, challenged him about his spiritual practice, which annoyed his ego but prompted him to formally ask Nickturn to teach him Buddhism, leading to a deeper engagement.
He sees 'God' as a term of convenience for a benevolent strata of reality or a personified benevolence that is deeply loving and interested in all sentient beings, a 'personal connection' that is delightful and exciting.
He finds arguments over the literal reality of Jesus 'boring' and a 'distraction.' For him, what matters is the 'fresh-baked bread' feeling of connection to 'Christ consciousness' in the present moment, rather than historical or miraculous details.
Psychologically, hell is described as a state of complete disconnect from the world, absolute selfishness, and an endless preoccupation with one's own problems and suffering, forgetting the greater reality of interconnectedness.
He applies the Bhagavad Gita's principle of having a right to action but not to its fruits, focusing on the joy of creating rather than outcomes. His stand-up career also provides a degree of security, reducing dependence on external validation.
Psychedelics can serve as a 'map' or 'bridge' to the divine by scrambling one's identity, allowing for a unified bliss state and showing that such experiences are possible. However, he cautions against believing psychedelics are the *only* way to achieve this state.
No, Duncan believes it enhances creativity by fostering self-awareness and spontaneity, allowing artists to find humor in their own 'nuts' minds. It also doesn't hurt ambition, especially when motivated by family responsibilities.
37 Actionable Insights
1. Reduce ‘Me’ Attachment
Alleviate suffering by reducing attachment to the individual ‘me’ or ego, recognizing that preoccupation with self-identity can obscure a greater reality where your perception of the world is a manifestation of your mind.
2. Practice Surrender
Embrace the concept of surrender as an answer to the various demands of the world, drawing inspiration from spiritual traditions that emphasize this approach.
3. Cultivate Grace for Hardship
Engage with spiritual practices to develop the ability to be graceful in chaotic or difficult situations, as this skill is crucial for navigating life’s inevitable challenges and being a better friend, parent, or student.
4. Practice Being Present
Practice being fully in the present moment and trusting your mind, as this spontaneity, freed from neurotic thought patterns, can greatly enhance performance and expression in any field.
5. Focus on Action, Not Fruits
To avoid insanity and manage anxiety in high-pressure environments, focus on performing your actions diligently, but detach from the expectation or attachment to the specific ‘fruits’ or outcomes of those actions.
6. Practice ‘Love No Matter What’
Apply ’love no matter what’ by recognizing that others’ difficult behaviors stem from their own inherited patterns and conditioning, making it harder to sustain anger and fostering compassion.
7. Embrace Dark Moments
Recognize that difficult or ‘dark’ moments are essential for growth, like the roots of a flower, and can lead to something more beautiful than your current state, rather than only seeking pleasure and bliss.
8. Love the Creative Process
To thrive in creative fields, cultivate a deep love for the act of making things that exceeds the desire for external validation, funding, or success.
9. Commit to One Practice
Avoid ‘spiritual materialism’ or ’leapfrogging’ between different traditions when suffering arises; instead, commit to a simple, consistent practice for a significant period before becoming spiritually omnivorous.
10. Connect to Transcendent Reality
To avoid cynicism and bitterness in the face of suffering, connect to a transcendent reality or ‘God,’ as removing this element can lead to a dark, nihilistic view of existence.
11. Create Space from Judgment
Cultivate a sense of separation between your judging mind and your true self, allowing judgment to be observed as a part of your experience rather than defining your entire identity.
12. Recognize Hell as Psychology
Understand ‘hell realms’ as psychological states experienced in the present moment, characterized by complete disconnect, selfishness, and preoccupation with one’s own problems, rather than solely a place after death.
13. Seek a Meditation Teacher
If you’re interested in spiritual practice, find a meditation teacher to guide you, as formal instruction can be the beginning of true interest and deeper engagement.
14. Practice Mindfulness Daily
Engage in mindfulness practice to tune into your body and reality, which serves as a palate cleanser to reduce distraction by thoughts and connect with the reality of love, compassion, and beauty.
15. Engage Diverse Perspectives
Actively seek out and engage with people who hold different beliefs, as the resulting conversations can be healthy, good, and lead to valuable insights and understanding.
16. Prioritize Quick Recovery
Understand that grace in relationships or life doesn’t mean never being graceless, but rather developing the ability to recover more quickly from difficult moments or conflicts.
17. Marriage as Spiritual Practice
Recognize your marriage or significant relationships as a spiritual practice or path, which can help compress conflicts that might last days into shorter periods and facilitate a quicker return to connection.
18. Cultivate Self-Compassion
Understand that recurring life patterns (samsaric patterns or karma) may extend beyond this lifetime, which can foster greater self-compassion by recognizing the deep-rooted complexity of your conditioning.
19. Re-examine Spiritual Concepts
Be open to re-examining spiritual concepts and experiences, as initial understandings may be limited, and a deeper, more profound connection can emerge with new perspectives.
20. Seek Fresh Spiritual Teachings
When exploring religion or spirituality, look for teachings that feel ‘fresh-baked bread’ – alive and relevant in the present moment – rather than stale or dusty relics of the past.
21. Avoid Spiritualizing Confusion
Do not mistake inexpressible confusion or ignorance for mystical or transcendent experiences, as this can lead to enshrining one’s own confusion rather than seeking genuine understanding.
22. Prioritize Personal Experience
Focus on cultivating a personal spiritual connection and experience, understanding that the articulation of such experiences is secondary and may confuse others.
23. Initiate Spiritual Romance
If you believe in a benevolent divine, initiate a ‘romance’ with it through ‘consent’ or prayer, expressing your openness to connection by saying, ‘hey, okay, if you’re there, I’m here.’
24. Psychedelics as a Map
If using psychedelics, view them as a ‘map’ that can show the possibility of unified bliss states, but be aware of the pitfall of believing they are the only way to experience such states.
25. Explore Non-Drug Paths
Recognize that spiritual practices can lead to profound states of consciousness, potentially surpassing those induced by psychedelics, so explore these non-chemical paths.
26. Focus on the Destination
Concentrate on the ultimate goal of spiritual practice or personal growth (’the beach’) rather than becoming overly attached to or caught up in the specific ‘vehicle’ or method used to get there.
27. Dispel Suffering Artist Myth
Reject the misconception that spiritual satisfaction or happiness will diminish artistic fuel; engaging in practices that bring well-being does not harm creativity.
28. Use Self-Awareness for Humor
Develop self-awareness through mind exploration and meditation to observe your own eccentricities and ’nuts’ behavior, which can then be transformed into humor and jokes.
29. Reduce Self-Consciousness
Work on reducing self-consciousness to become more available, a better ad-libber, and more spontaneous, which can enhance humor and overall performance.
30. Enjoy Your Ego
Instead of fighting your ego, enjoy and observe it with a sense of bittersweet humor, recognizing it as a demanding but temporary aspect of yourself.
31. Be Aware of Grief Triggers
Be mindful that grief can manifest unconsciously, triggered by anniversaries or seasonal cues, even if your conscious mind has forgotten the date, leading to unexplained anger or unease.
32. Observe Resistance to Compassion
Notice your internal resistance when deconstructing anger towards someone, recognizing the ego’s desire to maintain an external target for aggression rather than seeing others as equally complex beings.
33. Recognize Love as Shared
Avoid mistaking individuals as the sole ’love source’; instead, recognize love as a fundamental, shared experience or ‘fundamental goodness’ that underlies all interactions and stories.
34. Combine Mindfulness, Devotion
Consider combining mindfulness practices (like Vipassana) with devotional practices (like Bhakti Yoga) as they can complement each other effectively to deepen spiritual understanding and connection.
35. Build Independent Income
In unpredictable industries, develop an independent income stream that provides some security and reduces complete dependence on external timing or opportunities.
36. Embrace Evolving Spirituality
Consider that spiritual reality might be something humanity is ‘assembling into’ through collective evolution and technological advancement, rather than solely a past event or static concept.
37. Recognize Self-Imprisonment
Understand that suffering or ‘hell’ is often self-imposed, with ’the gates of hell locked from the inside,’ implying that liberation comes from within.
7 Key Quotes
If you're in the world and you have a human body, you are probably suffering.
Duncan Trussell
For most humans, being more graceful does not mean never being graceless. It just means recovering more quickly, I think.
Dan Harris
Our parents, they die many times in horrible ways, and then that'll happen to us. Our kids will mourn, but there's no sense of some transcendent reality. There's no sense that there's anything other than that. That's it.
Duncan Trussell
The fact that you can't express it is not some sign that it's mystical or transcendent or anything of that nature. It's just you've found a way to enshrine your own basic ignorance and confusion and just give up.
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche (quoted by Duncan Trussell)
The gates of hell are locked from the inside.
C.S. Lewis (quoted by Duncan Trussell)
If an asshole gets enlightened, then they will be an enlightened asshole.
Ram Dass (quoted by Duncan Trussell)
You don't like touring because you're sick of your poems. And why don't you just write the poetry on stage? Don't you trust your mind?
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche (quoted by Duncan Trussell)