Ellen Hendriksen, Rising Above Social Anxiety
Dan Harris interviews clinical psychologist Ellen Hendriksen, author of "How to Be Yourself," about social anxiety. Hendriksen, a former sufferer, shares techniques to combat social anxiety, including turning attention outward, dropping safety behaviors, and giving social interactions structure.
Deep Dive Analysis
17 Topic Outline
Introduction to Social Anxiety and Guest Ellen Hendrickson
Listener Voicemail: Sustaining Meditation Habits & Encouraging Others
Listener Voicemail: Practicing Equanimity in Challenging Work
Mindfulness in Psychotherapy vs. Formal Meditation Practice
Ellen's Personal Struggle with Formal Meditation Practice
Dan's Challenge: A One-Month Meditation Trial
Understanding the Origins and Prevalence of Social Anxiety
Four Categories of Social Anxiety Fears
Strategy 1: Turning Attention Inside Out to Reduce Anxiety
Strategy 2: Dropping Safety Behaviors in Social Interactions
Strategy 3: Giving Social Interactions More Structure
The Role of Perfectionism and Daring to Be Average
The Pratfall Effect: Vulnerability and Human Connection
The 'Problem' with Lacking Social Anxiety
Distinguishing Social Anxiety from Introversion
Ellen's Personal Journey and Early Memory of Social Anxiety
How to Overcome Social Anxiety: Facing Fears
8 Key Concepts
Equanimity
It's not passivity or apathy, but recognizing facts as they are and taking wise, reasonable, and measured action. It allows for an internal unclenching, which can enable compassion and effectiveness in helping others by seeing difficult emotions without being owned by them.
Mindfulness (in psychotherapy)
Part of the 'third wave' of psychotherapy, it involves being able to observe thoughts and feelings without being completely consumed or 'yanked around' by them. It creates a disconnect, allowing one to realize they are watching their thoughts rather than being their thoughts.
Social Anxiety
A condition where a perceived fatal flaw about oneself will be revealed, leading to rejection or embarrassment. It manifests as self-consciousness about appearance, anxiety symptoms, social skills, or one's entire character, and is defined by when it gets in the way of one's life or causes inordinate distress.
Safety Behaviors
Actions taken in socially anxious moments to artificially tamp down anxiety or manage impressions, such as talking quickly, deflecting attention, or peppering others with questions. These behaviors consume mental bandwidth and prevent genuine engagement, ultimately reinforcing anxiety.
Perfectionism
Not actually about striving to be perfect, but rather a deep-seated worry about never being good enough. It involves feeling like one is walking on a social tightrope, where any mistake will trigger alarms, and can be overcome by 'daring to be average'.
Pratfall Effect
A phenomenon where a competent person becomes more likable and accessible to others after making a small blunder or showing a humanizing flaw. It takes them from being superhuman to being human, making them more relatable and endearing.
Introversion
A hardwired personality trait characterized by a lower tolerance for stimulation, where energy is drained by crowds or extensive social interaction. It is a fundamental aspect of one's personality and does not necessarily need to be changed.
Social Anxiety (vs. Introversion)
Unlike introversion, social anxiety causes inordinate distress or gets in the way of life and can be challenged and changed. It is driven by a fear of rejection and a perceived fatal flaw, whereas introversion is about how one manages and recharges their energy.
7 Questions Answered
Willpower is unreliable; instead, tune into the benefits of the practice, such as feeling calmer or more focused, and let that pull you forward. Don't worry about falling off the wagon, as seeing your inner weather get stormier without meditation can also be a motivation. Prioritize sleep and allow for short meditation sessions.
It's often counterproductive to try and convince someone directly, as it can be perceived as 'you're broken.' Instead, demonstrate the benefits of meditation in your own life, allowing your partner to observe and become curious on their own terms.
Equanimity is not passivity, but recognizing current facts and taking wise, measured action. It helps conserve energy, allows for compassion to arise, and enables you to be effective in caring for patients by seeing difficult emotions without being overwhelmed.
In psychotherapy, mindfulness is taught as a way to observe thoughts and emotions without being controlled by them, like watching a movie rather than being in it. Formal meditation, while intellectually understood as supercharging this capacity, is not typically a prescribed practice within psychotherapy training.
Social anxiety fears generally fall into four categories: concerns about one's physical appearance, fear of anxiety symptoms being visible (e.g., sweating, blushing), worries about social skills (e.g., being boring, not funny), and deeper concerns about one's whole character (e.g., being incompetent, a burden).
Introversion is a hardwired personality trait where one's energy is drained by social stimulation, and it doesn't necessarily need to change. Social anxiety, however, is a condition that causes inordinate distress or gets in the way of life, and it can and should be challenged and changed through practice and exposure.
The best way to reduce social anxiety is to gradually do the very things that cause discomfort, rather than retreating. By stretching beyond one's comfort zone, even in small steps, one gains evidence that worst-case scenarios often don't happen and that one can cope even if they do.
15 Actionable Insights
1. Build Confidence Through Action
Instead of waiting to feel confident, actively engage in slightly fear-inducing social situations to gain experience. This provides evidence that worst-case scenarios rarely happen and that you can cope even if they do.
2. Shift Attention Outward
In socially anxious moments, redirect your focus from internal self-monitoring to external observation of the person you’re interacting with. Paying attention to anything other than yourself helps anxiety deflate.
3. Eliminate Social Safety Behaviors
Consciously drop “safety behaviors” like nervous chatter or rushing conversations that are used to artificially tamp down anxiety. Acting confidently and speaking at a normal pace can change your experience of anxiety.
4. Structure Social Interactions
Reduce social anxiety by setting specific, manageable goals for social events, such as talking to a certain number of people or taking on a host role. This diminishes uncertainty, a key driver of anxiety.
5. Challenge Social Perfectionism
Let go of the need to be perfect in social settings by “daring to be average” and embracing your “foibles.” Recognizing these humanizing elements can make you more endearing and accessible to others.
6. Practice Equanimity for Action
Cultivate equanimity by recognizing facts as they are and taking wise, measured action, rather than confusing it with passivity. This internal “unclenching” fosters compassion and effectiveness, especially in challenging environments.
7. Embrace Imperfection in Meditation
Reframe meditation by understanding that the “win” is not sustained focus, but the repeated act of noticing your mind has wandered and gently returning. This helps overcome perfectionist tendencies and feelings of incompetence.
8. Leverage Benefits for Habit Motivation
Instead of relying on willpower, identify and tune into the positive feelings and benefits (e.g., calmness, focus) you gain from a habit. Allow these intrinsic rewards to pull you forward as a source of motivation.
9. Prioritize Sleep Over Meditation Time
Ensure you get adequate sleep, even if it means shortening your meditation session to just a few minutes. Short, consistent meditation is still beneficial, and you can seek other brief opportunities later in the day.
10. Acknowledge Inner Critic, Then Act
When your inner critic speaks, acknowledge its protective intent (e.g., “Thank you for your input, Grandma”), but then consciously choose to proceed with your intended action despite its warnings. This helps diminish its power over time.
11. Try a Meditation Challenge
If you are an “achiever” type, commit to a short, daily meditation practice for one month as a goal-oriented experiment. This can help overcome initial resistance and allow you to discover its personal benefits.
12. Don’t Evangelize Meditation
Avoid trying to convince others, especially romantic partners, to meditate, as it can be off-putting and ineffective. Instead, demonstrate the positive effects through your own practice and let them come to you with questions.
13. Use Mindfulness to Observe Thoughts
Practice mindfulness to differentiate between “thinking a thought” and “having the thought that I’m thinking.” This allows you to observe thoughts and emotions without being controlled or “yanked around” by them.
14. View Habit Lapses as Motivation
Recognize that falling off a habit can be a powerful motivator in itself. Observing a “stormier” inner state without the practice can reinforce its value and encourage you to return.
15. Recognize Insecurity as Normal
Understand that a degree of insecurity and self-doubt is a normal human trait, serving an evolutionary purpose by prompting introspection and social awareness. Not experiencing any self-doubt can be a sign of a problem.
7 Key Quotes
There is a huge difference between thinking I'm being annoying versus I'm having the thought that I'm being annoying.
Ellen Hendrickson
The moment you notice you've been carried away is the win. And that is meditation.
Dan Harris
I am the author of a book about how to lessen your social anxiety, but I'm also a client.
Ellen Hendrickson
The thing that drives all anxiety, not just social anxiety, is uncertainty.
Ellen Hendrickson
Perfectionists don't actually strive to be perfect. They worry about never being good enough.
Ellen Hendrickson
The 1% of people who have never experienced social anxiety, have no self doubt are narcissists slash psychopaths.
Ellen Hendrickson
Social anxiety tells you two lies. One, it tells you that whatever the worst case scenario... is bound to happen. And the second lie it tells you is that you can't handle this.
Ellen Hendrickson
1 Protocols
Techniques to Combat Social Anxiety
Ellen Hendrickson- Turn your attention inside out: Instead of monitoring yourself, focus outward by looking at the person you're talking to, listening carefully, and phrasing answers to convey passion and help others.
- Drop your safety behaviors: Avoid actions like talking quickly or deflecting attention that artificially tamp down anxiety. Instead, act as if you are confident and what you are doing is perfectly reasonable.
- Give yourself some structure: Provide a clear mission for social interactions, such as aiming to have conversations with three people at a party or exchanging a certain number of business cards at a networking event.