For the Burned Out, Fried, and Exhausted | Emily & Amelia Nagoski

Jan 5, 2022 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Emily and Amelia Nagoski, co-authors of *Burnout*, discuss the science of burnout, its three characteristics, and why women are particularly susceptible to emotional exhaustion. They offer evidence-based interventions to complete the stress cycle and address systemic oppression.

At a Glance
16 Insights
1h 13m Duration
20 Topics
8 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Burnout and the Nagoski Sisters' Personal Story

Amelia's Hospitalizations and the Genesis of the Book

Emily's Motivation and the Unexpected Impact of Her First Book

Defining Burnout: Three Key Components and Emotional Exhaustion

Distinguishing Stressors from the Physical Experience of Stress

Why Women Experience Burnout Differently: Human Giver Syndrome

Processing Self-Blame and Shame: The Madwoman in the Attic

The Abyss Song: A Creative Expression of Societal Expectations

Completing the Stress Cycle: Physical Activity

Completing the Stress Cycle: Sleep and its Individual Variations

Completing the Stress Cycle: Imagination and Storytelling

Completing the Stress Cycle: Creative Self-Expression

Completing the Stress Cycle: Positive Social Interaction and Connection

Completing the Stress Cycle: Deep Breathing and Mindfulness

Completing the Stress Cycle: Crying and Laughter

Understanding the 'Real Enemy': Systemic Injustice and the Rigged Game

Overcoming Learned Helplessness Through Action

The 'Bubble of Love': A Collective Solution to Burnout

Wellness as a State of Action and Oscillation

Final Thoughts and Resources for Burnout Recovery

Burnout

Burnout is formally defined as a combination of three characteristics: depersonalization (decreased emotional investment in work), a decreased sense of accomplishment (working harder for less perceived achievement), and emotional exhaustion. For women, emotional exhaustion is often the primary experience.

Emotional Exhaustion

This occurs when one gets stuck in the middle of a biological emotional cycle. Emotions are physiological processes in the body with a beginning, middle, and an end, and emotional exhaustion means the body hasn't completed that cycle to return to a state of peace and balance.

Human Giver Syndrome

This term describes a societal expectation, particularly for women, to have a moral obligation to be pretty, happy, calm, generous, and unfailingly attentive to the needs of others. This often leads to neglecting one's own needs and stress response completion.

The Madwoman in the Attic

Inspired by 'Jane Eyre,' this concept represents the brain's desperate attempt to manage the unmanageable chasm between who we actually are and who the world expects us to be. When we fall short, this 'madwoman' can manifest as rage at the world or self-shame.

Completing the Stress Cycle

This refers to the process of allowing the physiological stress response (fight, flight, freeze, fawn, tend-and-befriend) to run its natural course in the body. It's about dealing with the physical experience of stress, even if the stressor itself cannot be immediately removed, to return to a state of peace.

The Real Enemy / Rigged Game

This metaphor, drawn from 'The Hunger Games,' describes systemic injustices (like patriarchy) that create inherent obstacles for certain populations, making it harder for them to succeed or thrive. Recognizing the 'game is rigged' can alleviate personal despair and blame.

Learned Helplessness (Nervous System Learning)

This is a state where the nervous system, not just the frontal lobe, learns that it cannot escape a difficult situation, even when escape becomes possible. It's 'learned in the body' based on real experiences of being unable to change circumstances.

Wellness (as a state of action)

Wellness is not a static state of being, but rather the freedom to move through natural biological cycles. This includes oscillating between rest and effort, connection and autonomy, and through the stress response cycle to relaxation.

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What is burnout and what are its three components?

Burnout is a combination of depersonalization (decreased investment in work), a decreased sense of accomplishment (working harder for less feeling of getting things done), and emotional exhaustion. Emotional exhaustion is particularly problematic for physical health.

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How does emotional exhaustion relate to the body's stress response?

Emotional exhaustion occurs when the body gets stuck in the middle of a biological emotional cycle. Emotions are cycles that need to be completed, and when they aren't, the physiological response remains active in the body.

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Why do women often experience burnout differently than men?

Research suggests that emotional exhaustion is the primary experience of burnout for women, likely due to societal conditioning and the 'human giver syndrome' which teaches women to prioritize others' needs over their own emotional processing.

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What is 'human giver syndrome'?

Human giver syndrome describes the societal expectation, particularly for women, to be pretty, happy, calm, generous, and unfailingly attentive to others' needs. This leads to a moral obligation to give, often at the expense of one's own well-being.

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Can imagination help complete the stress cycle?

Yes, imagination can both initiate and complete a stress response cycle. Vividly imagining a story or scenario that has a built-in stress-response cycle (like a movie or video game) can allow the body to process and complete its own stress response.

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How does creative self-expression help with stress?

By taking difficult feelings and channeling them into creating something outside of oneself (e.g., writing, painting, music, cooking), one can safely process and release those emotions, preventing them from getting stuck in the body.

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Can meditation and deep breathing complete the stress cycle?

Deep breathing, particularly focusing on exhalation, engages the parasympathetic nervous system and can signal safety to the body, helping complete the stress cycle. Mindfulness meditation, when it involves non-judgmental awareness and allowing emotions to pass, can also be effective, but simply seeking 'calmness' might sometimes suppress the cycle rather than complete it.

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How do crying and laughter help complete the stress cycle?

Both crying and uncontrollable, loud laughter are physical cycles that can take the body all the way through a stress response. The key is to allow the physical release without judgment or ruminating on the stressor, letting the cycle complete naturally.

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What is the 'real enemy' in the context of burnout and how does it relate to the 'rigged game'?

The 'real enemy' refers to systemic injustices and oppressive structures (like patriarchy) that create more and different obstacles for certain groups. Recognizing that the 'game is rigged' and that one is not failing due to personal inadequacy can be a powerful relief.

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How can one overcome learned helplessness?

Overcoming learned helplessness, which is learned by the nervous system, involves 'doing a thing' – any action, no matter how small, that demonstrates agency. This teaches the nervous system that it can access safety and is not helpless, even if it doesn't directly solve the larger problem.

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What is the 'bubble of love' and how does it combat burnout?

The 'bubble of love' is a pocket of connection with others who take your well-being as seriously as you take theirs, where the rules of the outside world (like entitlement) don't apply. It's a collective solution where people mutually care for each other, preventing individuals from burning out alone.

1. Separate Stressor from Stress Response

Understand that dealing with a stressful situation (the stressor) is different from dealing with the physical experience of stress in your body. This allows you to feel better immediately, even if the stressor persists, by completing the physiological stress response cycle.

2. Engage in Physical Activity

Perform physical activity, even as simple as tensing every muscle in your body hard for a slow count of 10, then flopping and relaxing. This is the most efficient strategy to cue your body that it is safe and complete the stress response cycle.

3. Prioritize Individualized Sleep

Determine your personal sleep needs, which can range from seven to nine hours or more, and prioritize getting that amount. If you are a natural napper, embrace napping as a productive activity to support your body’s needs.

4. Process Stress via Imagination

Utilize your imagination to complete stress response cycles, such as vividly imagining yourself as a powerful figure overcoming obstacles, or by engaging with stories in books, movies, or video games that provide a complete emotional journey.

5. Express Stress Creatively

Channel difficult feelings into creative outlets like writing (journaling, novels), painting, or music. This allows you to put the feelings outside your body, completing the stress response cycle without causing harm to yourself or others.

6. Connect and Move Together

Engage in activities that involve moving in time with others for a shared purpose, such as dancing, singing, marching in a protest, or praying at a worship service. These actions create a powerful chemical shift that fosters love, community, and helps complete the stress response cycle.

7. Practice Deep Breathing

Focus on deep breathing, particularly emphasizing exhalation, which engages the parasympathetic nervous system and promotes calm. This physiological action cues your body that it is safe and helps complete the stress response cycle.

8. Allow Mindful Crying

If you feel the urge to cry, allow yourself to do so without judgment or ruminating on the stressor itself. Instead, observe the physical sensations of crying, letting the cycle complete naturally to release physiological stress.

9. Seek Uncontrollable Laughter

Pursue genuine, loud, uncontrollable belly laughter that leaves your abdomen sore, as this physical cycle signals safety to your body and completes the stress response. If you can’t laugh, reminisce about past belly laughs or listen to others laugh.

10. Question “Human Giver Syndrome”

Reflect on whether you or others are operating under “human giver syndrome,” where there’s a moral obligation to prioritize others’ needs. If you suspect this, ask those around you (multiple times, in different ways) if they feel entitled to your emotional labor, genuinely seeking ways to improve.

11. Cultivate Self-Compassion for Mistakes

When recognizing you’ve done harm or fallen short of expectations, turn toward your inner critic with kindness and compassion. This creates space for learning, making amends, and growth, rather than being overwhelmed by self-criticism.

12. Acknowledge Systemic Obstacles

Understand that if life feels too hard, it’s often because the “game is rigged” by systemic injustices and oppression, not due to personal failure. This knowledge can alleviate despair and validate your experience, allowing you to feel better.

13. “Do a Thing” Against Helplessness

To combat learned helplessness, engage in any action, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, that is “not nothing.” This teaches your nervous system that you are capable of agency and accessing safety, even if it doesn’t directly solve the larger problem.

14. Build a “Bubble of Love”

Actively create and participate in a supportive community where members genuinely care for each other’s well-being, free from external expectations. This requires bravery to initiate connection and active participation in caring for others.

15. Embrace Wellness as Oscillation

View wellness not as a static state, but as the freedom to move through natural cycles, such as stress to relaxation, connection to autonomy, and rest to effort. This understanding supports a dynamic approach to self-care and well-being.

16. Try 10% with Dan Harris App

Download the new “10% with Dan Harris” app and sign up for a 14-day trial to access guided meditations for stress, anxiety, sleep, focus, self-compassion, and more, along with live community sessions and ad-free podcast episodes.

Feelings are tunnels. You have to go all the way through the tunnel to get to the light at the end.

Emily Nagoski

Just because a stressful thing is gone doesn't necessarily mean that you've dealt with the stress in your body.

Emily Nagoski

The reason Audre Lorde said that self-care is an act of political warfare is because the survival of people who are systemically oppressed is the opposite of the continuance of injustice.

Emily Nagoski

The cure for burnout cannot be self-care. It must be all of us caring for each other.

Emily Nagoski

Do a thing, and a thing is anything that's not nothing.

Emily Nagoski

Wellness is not a state of being, it is a state of action. It's that freedom to move through the cycles built into our mammalian bodies.

Emily Nagoski

Completing the Stress Cycle through Physical Activity

Emily Nagoski
  1. Tense up every muscle in your body hard for a very slow count of 10, and a little bit longer than that.
  2. Flopp and allow your muscles to relax, signaling to your body that it is now a safe place.

Overcoming Learned Helplessness ('Do a Thing' Approach)

Emily Nagoski, Amelia Nagoski
  1. Recognize that the 'game' (systemic injustice) is rigged, and it's not your fault if things feel too hard.
  2. Engage in any physical action or task, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant, that demonstrates agency (e.g., building a stone path, making a meal, completing any task).
  3. This action teaches your nervous system, at a deep, non-cognitive level, that you are not helpless and can access safety, allowing you to deal with bigger challenges.

Creating a 'Bubble of Love'

Emily Nagoski, Amelia Nagoski
  1. Identify and connect with people who care about your well-being as much as you care about theirs, where external societal rules and expectations are suspended.
  2. Be brave and initiate connection, even if it feels awkward or uncomfortable, as others likely share the same need for connection.
  3. Actively participate in caring for others within the bubble; this mutual giving and receiving of support reinforces the connection and ensures no one 'slips through the cracks' into burnout.
37
Amelia Nagoski's age when she started mindfulness practice Emily started at 14.
7.5 hours
Emily Nagoski's typical sleep duration Amelia, her identical twin, needs 9 hours.
18 months
Age of toddlers in the 'babies like to bounce' study Demonstrated increased pro-social behavior after synchronous bouncing.
90% chimp, 10% bee
Jonathan Haidt's description of human nature Refers to humans as a hive species meant to do great things together.
1 in 3
Proportion of American households that are solo individuals Highlighting the issue of loneliness.