From Evangelical Pastor to Buddhist Nun | Venerable Pannavati

Mar 14, 2022 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Venerable Pannavati, a former evangelical pastor now ordained in three Buddhist traditions, discusses why meditators often skip preliminary steps, the rigorous nature of Buddhism, the impact of making vows, and the concept of healthy shame.

At a Glance
14 Insights
56m 14s Duration
17 Topics
7 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Venerable Pannavati's Transition from Evangelical Pastor to Buddhist Nun

The Search for 'Something Missing' in Christian Practice

Vision of Doors and the Path to Wisdom

Reintroduction to Dharma and Ordination in Three Traditions

Finding 'The Answer' and the Importance of Direct Experience

Critique of Western Buddhist Practice: Skipping Preliminary Steps

The Gradual Path: Right View, Generosity, and Cultivating the Heart

Pragmatism, Wisdom (Prajna), and the Eight Worldly Winds

The Power and Impact of Making Vows

Applying Dharma to Overcome Bigotry and Personal Challenges

Practical Application of the Five Precepts: Guarding Sense Gates

Overcoming Ill Will and Cultivating Harmony in Relationships

Understanding Impermanence and Rebirth Linking Consciousness

The Essential Role of Faith in Spiritual and Daily Life

Venerable Pannavati's View on Jesus and Buddha

Understanding and Practicing Healthy Shame

Resources: Correct Cultivation Learning from Buddha Academy

Quickening

A direct, life-giving experience of truth that goes beyond intellectual understanding. It brings a certain kind of knowing and an internal capacity to hold life, providing intrinsic power to navigate daily challenges.

Prajna (Wisdom)

A different kind of mind that subsumes one's ordinary human mind when encountered. It leads to direct knowing and sublime wisdom, distinct from ordinary human or academic understanding.

Eight Worldly Winds

These are the eight conditions that typically sway human beings: praise and blame, loss and gain, pleasure and pain, fame and shame. True freedom and intrinsic power are realized when one can hold these as 'all the same'.

Mind of Impermanence

A developed state of mind that consistently recognizes the impermanent nature of everything in life. This understanding helps to loosen attachments and fosters a deeper appreciation for causality and dependent origination.

Mind of Renunciation

A profound desire to leave the cycles of continued existence (samsara). It stems from a deep understanding of rebirth linking consciousness and the causes and conditions that perpetuate being.

Rebirth Linking Consciousness

The Buddhist concept that a being arises from causes and conditions, including a mind stream, rather than a single person being reborn. It's likened to a relay race where a baton is passed, allowing something to continue without being the exact same entity.

Healthy Shame

A sincere regret for one's actions, thoughts, or words that do not align with one's personal standards for living. This type of shame leads to self-correction, authenticity, and a development of compassion for others, rather than self-flagellation.

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Why do many meditators in the West struggle to find true spiritual breakthrough?

Many meditators in the West tend to 'jump to the end of the book' by starting with meditation, skipping important preliminary steps like cultivating right view, generosity, and virtue. This bypasses the foundational work needed for meditation to truly penetrate and yield profound results.

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What is the 'gradual path' to spiritual attainment in Buddhism?

The gradual path begins with developing right view and understanding, followed by practices like generosity and cultivating the heart. It then progresses to making true vows, keeping precepts, and finally engaging in meditation to develop concentration and be 'accosted by wisdom'.

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How can one practically apply Buddhist teachings in daily life beyond formal meditation?

Practical application involves moment-by-moment challenging of egoic impulses, such as holding one's peace when offended, overlooking slights, tolerating faults, and laying down one's opinions. This cultivates harmony and an inner sense of peace and comfort.

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What is the role of making vows in spiritual practice?

Making vows is an ingredient that fosters firm resolve and conviction, helping individuals to be diligent in their practice. It's a commitment to oneself that, when honored, can break unhelpful habits and lead to profound inner strength.

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How does one develop a 'mind of impermanence'?

Developing a mind of impermanence involves consistently observing and recognizing the transient nature of everything in life. This practice helps to loosen attachments and fosters a deeper understanding of causality, leading to more circumspect actions.

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Is 'faith' necessary for spiritual practice, especially for agnostics or those with negative religious experiences?

Yes, faith is considered essential for anything, spiritual or otherwise, as it represents an expectation or confidence that something will work. In a spiritual context, it's more than curiosity; it's a tinge of acceptance and a willingness to try the practice to see the results for oneself.

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What is 'healthy shame' and how does it differ from unhealthy shame?

Healthy shame is a sincere regret for one's actions that don't meet one's own standards, leading to self-correction and authenticity. Unlike self-flagellation, it involves owning the mistake, seeing its danger, vowing not to repeat it, and then letting it go, fostering compassion for oneself and others.

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What is Venerable Pannavati's current view on Christianity and Jesus?

Venerable Pannavati believes Jesus was a Bodhisattva who responded to the cries of the world with compassion and power, teaching a way for others to attain the same. She sees no significant differentiation between the essential qualities of Jesus and Buddha, viewing their stories as fundamentally the same in helping individuals tap into their essential nature.

1. Prioritize Foundational Ethical Practice

Instead of jumping directly into meditation for quick relief from anxiety, begin with foundational practices like cultivating right view, right understanding, and generosity. This preliminary work cultivates the heart and virtue necessary for meditation to truly penetrate and lead to genuine breakthrough and clarity.

2. Make and Uphold Vows

Establish true vows, making a commitment to yourself about something you will be diligent about, such as stopping gossiping or living the five precepts. This act of making a vow, and then taking action to uphold it in the moment, is a powerful ingredient for firm resolve and breaking unskillful habits.

3. Cultivate Healthy Shame

Develop “healthy shame” by sincerely regretting actions, thoughts, or words that don’t meet your personal standard for living. This practice involves owning your mistakes, seeing their fault and danger, vowing not to repeat them, and then letting them go, which fosters quick self-correction and self-compassion.

4. Practice in Real-World Interactions

True practice involves applying teachings in challenging, everyday moments, such as when people are ranting, falsely accusing you, or taking your possessions. In these situations, strive to hold your peace, apply the teachings, overlook slights, and tolerate faults, as this is where genuine spiritual development occurs.

5. Guard Your Sense Gates

Practice guarding your sense gates, which includes what comes in through your eyes, ears, smell, taste, touch, and mind. This means noticing when your senses crave or lust after something, and consciously stepping out of the constant longing for external sensations and opinions, leading to inner ease and peace.

6. Cultivate Impermanence and Renunciation

Develop a mind that constantly observes the impermanence of everything in life, helping you to loosen your grip on things. Simultaneously, cultivate a mind of renunciation, which is a desire to leave the realms of continued existence, fostering a deeper understanding of life’s transient nature.

7. Embrace Direct Experience

Seek direct experience of spiritual truths rather than relying solely on intellectual understanding or academic study. While theories are useful, true knowing comes from a “quickening” that gives life and an internal capacity to hold life, which can only be gained through personal experience.

8. Prioritize Harmony Over Preference

To overcome ill will and foster harmony, practice laying down your own opinions and desires, especially when they conflict with others. Instead of insisting on your way, choose to do what another person wants, recognizing the great boon of their presence and the inner contentment that comes from self-sacrifice.

9. Understand Causality, Be Circumspect

Recognize that every action you commit creates a cause that will produce an effect, somewhere and somehow. By deeply embracing this notion of dependent origination and causality, you become more circumspect and careful about your actions, leading to greater clarity in your life.

10. Develop Active Dharma Relationship

Treat the Dharma as an alive thing, developing an active, engaged relationship with it by being with it, talking with it, listening to it, and responding to it. This investment of time and effort will lead to a profound shift and a different life.

11. Reframe and Utilize Faith

Acknowledge that faith is essential for any action, even in secular life (e.g., expecting your car to start). If you struggle with faith in a spiritual context, observe how you use it in ordinary ways, as this recognition can help you approach spiritual teachings with a similar willingness to “come and see.”

12. Practice Contemplation of Death

Contemplate your mortality by asking yourself what would be important if you knew you were dying tonight. This practice helps to re-prioritize your actions and thoughts, shifting focus from trivial concerns like “getting others straight” to cultivating love and compassion.

13. Approach Path on Its Terms

Recognize that the spiritual path has its own principles and must be approached and accepted on its terms, rather than trying to dictate how you want things to be. To truly gain from the Dharma, you must appreciate spiritual things and “get with the program.”

14. Focus on Qualities, Not Personalities

When engaging with spiritual teachings or figures, focus on the inherent qualities (like compassion and power) resident within them, rather than their specific personalities or historical narratives. This allows for a deeper connection to the universal truths they embody.

I absolutely do not even feel like I found it, but know that I found it, because that's the difference.

Venerable Pannavati

But a person who's speaking from direct experience, there is a charge there. And it can be felt, but it's not even the feeling of it. It brings a certain kind of knowing with it.

Venerable Pannavati

When it's all the same to you, then you know that you have now a certain kind of intrinsic power that the world can't hold you hostage. And that's your first real taste of freedom.

Venerable Pannavati

We think when we get everything we want, that's when we're the happiest. But there is something in the laying down, in the substitution, in the giving oneself away that is so extremely powerful and peaceful.

Venerable Pannavati

I don't have a big differentiation between Jesus, between Buddha. To me, their stories are the same, even though they walked out different ways to help you to know yourself and to tap into your essential nature.

Venerable Pannavati

The Gradual Path to Spiritual Attainment

Venerable Pannavati
  1. Develop a mind of impermanence, seeing the impermanence of everything.
  2. Develop a mind of firm belief in the teachings and the Buddha's awakening.
  3. Develop a mind of renunciation, desiring to leave the realms of continued existence.
  4. Make true vows and diligently live up to them, establishing firm resolve.
  5. Take the precepts (e.g., the five precepts for laypeople).
  6. Enter into meditation to develop concentration, allowing the things of the world to fall away and wisdom (prajna) to be accosted and taken upon oneself.

Responding to Wrongdoing (Healthy Shame)

Venerable Pannavati (attributing to Buddha)
  1. Own the mistake you have committed.
  2. See the fault and danger inherent in that action.
  3. Vow not to do it again.
  4. Try real hard not to repeat the action.
  5. Put the shame down and do not continually flagellate yourself for it.

Cultivating Harmony and Overcoming Ill Will

Venerable Pannavati (describing the practice of Anna Ruta and other disciples)
  1. Recognize the great boon of enjoying the holy life together with others.
  2. When a disagreement arises, consider doing what the other person wants to do, prioritizing their presence and harmony over one's own desires.
  3. Lay down oneself, one's opinions, and what one wants, making this a habit and practice.
66
Chapters in the Bible Mentioned in the context of feeling something was missing compared to the vastness of spiritual knowledge.
15
Years to be reintroduced to Dharma After her initial vision and rejection of a book on dependent origination.
10 or 15
Different spiritual disciplines explored Over a decade, while searching for answers before returning to Buddhism.
84,000
Dharma gates (paths) The number of different doors or approaches to the Dharma.
Over 300
Number of vows for nuns Contrasted with a monk who keeps one rule: the rule of his mind.
21
Number of things that caused meditation light/vision to dim As identified by the Buddha when he was an unenlightened Bodhisattva.
31
Planes in Buddhist cosmology Mentioned in the context of believing in God realms.