From Kelly Corrigan Wonders | A Conversation with Dan Harris

Sep 15, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Kelly Corrigan talks with journalist Dan Harris, former ABC News anchor and 10% Happier founder, about being a lifelong learner, the value of intellectual humility, and personal tools like provisional language and meditation. They discuss managing self-centeredness, understanding causes and conditions, and the importance of psychological safety.

At a Glance
18 Insights
52m 2s Duration
17 Topics
9 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Dan Harris and His Background

Overcoming the 'I'm a Monster' Self-Story

Understanding Causes and Conditions for Behavior

The Practice of Intellectual Humility and Provisional Language

Why 'Ignorance is Not Bliss' for Difficult Thoughts

Reflecting on Leaving the News Anchor Career

Experiencing 'Moral Beauty' by Helping Others

Being Wrong About Meditation and Loving-Kindness

Learning from Feedback: Rudeness and Psychological Safety

Reluctantly Embracing Suburban Life

Grappling with Deep Unfairness and Responsibility

Parenting Philosophy: Prioritizing Goodness Over Happiness

Managing Fame and Privilege as 'Rotten Eggs'

Micro-Practices for Generosity and Connection

The Detrimental Effects of Rushing and How to Counter It

Joseph Goldstein's Influence and Key Slogans

The Humor in Buddhism and the Mind's Ridiculousness

Trainability of the Mind

The brain and mind are not fixed with unalterable 'factory settings'; they are trainable, allowing individuals to work on their issues and benefit themselves and others.

Causes and Conditions

A Buddhist concept (similar to karma as cause and effect, not mystical punishment) that suggests all present moments and behaviors are a result of a massive swarm of prior causes and conditions. This perspective can foster empathy and self-compassion.

Intellectual Humility

The recognition that there are always things one does not know or understand about every interaction and human being, inspiring curiosity and protecting against dogmatism.

Provisional Language

A communication tool involving peppering one's speech with words like 'maybe,' 'perhaps,' or 'it looks like' to reflect the impermanence and constant change of causes and conditions, thereby fostering humility.

Ignorance is Not Bliss

The idea that squelching or compartmentalizing difficult stories or traumas, rather than examining them, gives them more power and allows them to control one from unseen parts of the mind.

Psychological Safety

A quality in teams where even the most junior members feel safe to speak up, leading to better functioning teams.

Loving-Kindness Meditation

A set of Buddhist practices designed to cultivate warmth and love towards oneself and others, which can have significant psychological and physiological benefits.

Wise Selfishness

A concept from the Dalai Lama suggesting that the best way to be selfish is to be generous because doing good feels good and benefits others, creating a positive feedback loop.

Micro-interactions

The quality of brief interactions with people, even marginal figures in one's life, which cumulatively adds up to happiness, as supported by 'weak ties research'.

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How can one change deeply ingrained negative self-perceptions?

By recognizing that the brain and mind are trainable and not fixed, one can work on these issues, leading to benefits for oneself and others. This involves examining and not fighting these stories.

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What is the benefit of understanding 'causes and conditions' in human behavior?

Looking at the world through this lens can be a relief, as it helps one avoid judging others as 'evil' and instead understand that their actions stem from a complex web of past influences, fostering empathy and self-compassion.

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How can one cultivate intellectual humility in daily life?

A practical tool is 'provisional language,' which involves consciously using phrases like 'maybe,' 'perhaps,' or 'it looks like' to acknowledge impermanence and avoid speaking with excessive confidence.

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Why is it important to confront difficult thoughts or traumas instead of suppressing them?

Squashing or compartmentalizing difficult internal stories gives them more power, allowing them to control one from unseen parts of the mind, whereas examining them (e.g., through therapy or meditation) helps to disarm them.

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What makes a team function at its best?

Teams function best when they have 'psychological safety,' meaning even the most junior members feel safe and comfortable speaking up and sharing their opinions.

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What is the value of 'loving-kindness' practices, especially for skeptics?

These practices, often dismissed as 'cheesy,' are backed by data showing amazing psychological and physiological benefits, helping individuals cultivate a warmer attitude toward themselves and others.

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How can small acts of generosity, like tipping, impact one's well-being?

Tipping and other micro-practices of generosity train the mind to be more generous and to let go, which feels good and improves one's life, ultimately benefiting both the giver and the recipient.

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How does rushing affect human behavior and what can be done about it?

Rushing 'shuts you down,' making people less likely to help others, even in situations where they might otherwise feel compelled to. A practice is to make a mental note when rushing and consciously relax, recognizing that tasks can be done without frantic speed.

1. Embrace a Trainable Mindset

Recognize that your brain and mind are trainable, and you are not stuck with unalterable ‘factory settings’; you can actively work on all aspects of yourself, which benefits both you and others.

2. Don’t Side With Yourself

In moments of conflict, consciously choose not to immediately side with your own perspective; instead, empathetically consider why others think as they do, which can de-escalate situations and foster understanding.

3. Examine Unseen Difficulties

Avoid squelching or compartmentalizing difficult stories or traumas, as ignorance is not bliss and unexamined issues will control you from unseen crevices of your mind; instead, explore them through therapy, meditation, or discussions with trusted friends.

4. Practice Provisional Language

Pepper your speech with phrases like ‘maybe,’ ‘perhaps,’ or ‘it looks like’ to avoid speaking with too much confidence, acknowledging impermanence and thereby cultivating intellectual humility in your daily communication.

5. Cultivate Psychological Safety

For teams to function optimally, establish an environment where even the most junior members feel safe to speak up, which involves presenting as humble and genuinely interested in others’ opinions.

6. Engage in Loving Kindness Practices

Incorporate practices designed to foster warmth and love towards yourself and others, as these have significant psychological and physiological benefits and can help overcome self-critical narratives.

7. Prioritize Family & Meaningful Work

Consider re-evaluating high-stress careers to gain bandwidth for family and work that aligns with your values, as increased time with loved ones and purpose-driven activities can greatly improve well-being.

8. Seek Access to Nature

Make an effort to have constant access to nature, as scientific evidence suggests it has a significant positive and buoying effect on your psychological state.

9. Accept Help from Others

When in a difficult situation, allow others to help you, as accepting assistance provides them with an opportunity to experience a sense of attunement and realize their own humanity, giving them a better day.

10. Practice Wise Generosity

If you are in a position to afford it, practice generosity through micro-actions like tipping more or being nice to service people, as this trains your mind to be more giving, feels good, and reinforces your values.

11. Enhance Micro-Interactions

Improve the quality of your brief interactions with people, even those who are marginal figures in your life, by showing genuine interest and asking questions, as these ‘weak ties’ contribute significantly to overall happiness.

12. Stop Rushing Consciously

Make a mental note when you are rushing, recognizing that rushing shuts you down and prevents you from helping others; instead, relax and complete tasks without feeling hurried, even when facing deadlines.

13. Slow Down Email Responses

Intentionally delay responding to emails to set a more relaxed pace for communication, indicating that not everything is urgent and allowing everyone in the chain to be more present in their day.

14. Separate Behavior from Person

Adopt the mindset that there are no purely evil people, only bad behavior driven by causes and conditions; this allows for understanding and a less judgmental view of others, without excusing the behavior itself.

15. Manage Ongoing Dynamics

Recognize that some challenges in life are not problems to be solved definitively, but rather ongoing dynamics that need to be managed continuously, fostering a more sustainable approach to complex issues.

16. Embrace Your Mind’s Ridiculousness

Observe your mind for an extended period and find humor in its often-ridiculous tendencies; becoming comfortable and familiar with this perspective can prevent you from being overly owned by your thoughts.

17. Avoid Pushing Advice on Children

Be cautious about overtly pushing your values or advice on children, as they are often wired to reject it; instead, model desired behaviors and allow them to discover principles organically.

18. Use Your Platform for Good

If you have a platform or position of influence, recognize your responsibility to use it for the greater good, as giving back can improve your own life and contribute positively to society.

The brain and the mind are trainable, and you're not stuck with a bunch of factory settings that are unalterable. You can work on all of your stuff.

Dan Harris

I don't believe in evil people. I believe in bad behavior.

Father Gregory Boyle (quoted by Dan Harris)

Don't side with yourself.

Joseph Goldstein (quoted by Dan Harris)

There's always things I do not know or understand about every interaction, every human being.

Kelly Corrigan

If you won't accept help, you're eliminating this great opportunity for other people to feel this sense of attunement that you just described.

Kelly Corrigan

Praise Allah, but tie your camel to the post.

Sufi Islam (quoted by Dan Harris)

Some things are not problems to be solved, they're dynamics to be managed.

Esther Perel (quoted by Dan Harris)

With great power comes great responsibility.

Peter Parker's uncle (quoted by Dan Harris)

Rushing shuts you down.

Dan Harris

You can't look at your mind for an extended period of time without laughing because it's ridiculous.

Dan Harris

Cultivating Intellectual Humility (Provisional Language)

Dan Harris (attributing to Dan Klerman and Mudita Nisker)
  1. Recognize that impermanence is a non-negotiable law and things are constantly changing.
  2. Pepper your language with words like 'maybe,' 'perhaps,' or 'it looks like.'
  3. Avoid delivering diagnoses or prognoses with too much confidence.

Responding to Conflict (Don't Side With Yourself)

Joseph Goldstein (quoted by Dan Harris)
  1. In moments of conflict, say to yourself, 'don't side with yourself.'
  2. Think about why other people might be thinking the way they are.
  3. Consider if they might be right, or if empathetically leaping into their shoes can de-escalate the situation.
  4. Understand that if you endured the same causes and conditions, you might believe the exact same thing.

Managing the Urge to Rush

Dan Harris
  1. Make a little mental note when you notice yourself rushing.
  2. Remind yourself that you don't have to rush, even if you have a deadline.
  3. Consciously relax and just do what you need to do without frantic speed.
June 2004
Dan Harris's panic attack on air Occurred while hosting Good Morning America
four
Number of New York Times bestsellers by Kelly Corrigan About family life
one to 10
Scale for Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACEs) Used to rate factors like violence, mold, nutrition, and bed availability
a tenth or less
Amount of information Kelly Corrigan feels she knows to make a full judgment about a person Highlights the vast unknown about others' lives
almost two years ago
Time since Dan Harris retired from his news anchor role As of the recording of the podcast
north of 50
Dan Harris's age when he decided to stop news reporting Due to physical and psychological toll
three 45
Wake-up time for Dan Harris to anchor Good Morning America on weekends Described as living with permanent jet lag
eight year old
Age of Dan Harris's son He now spends more time with his son
thousand
Number of speeches Kelly Corrigan has given since having cancer Since having cancer in her thirties
2018
Year of Dan Harris's first 360 review Revealed a 'penchant for being rude to junior staffers'
twenty five hundred dollars
Amount of money effective altruism argues can save a life Demonstrably
21 and 20
Ages of Kelly Corrigan's children As of the recording of the podcast
600
Approximate number of episodes Dan Harris's podcast has produced A 'large pool to choose from' for impactful connections
nearly 80
Approximate age of Joseph Goldstein Dan Harris's meditation teacher