How a Group of Broke 20-Somethings Accidentally Launched the Mindfulness Movement | Jack Kornfield, Joseph Goldstein and Sharon Salzberg

Jul 10, 2026 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Dan Harris speaks with Insight Meditation Society (IMS) co-founders Sharon Salzberg, Jack Kornfield, Joseph Goldstein, Jacqueline Mandell, and Stephen Schwartz. They recount the founding of IMS 50 years ago, sharing challenges, humorous anecdotes, and the unexpected growth of Western mindfulness.

At a Glance
5 Insights
1h 15m Duration
20 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to IMS and its 50th Anniversary

Early Days: The Idea and Property Search

Negotiating the Purchase of the Novitiate

The 'Tranquil and Alert' Omen and Organizational Challenges

Financing the Purchase: The $15,000 Miracle

The Dharma Protects Those Who Protect It

Cultural Shift: From Asia to America

Jewish Background of IMS Founders

Diverse Motivations for Dharma Practice

Challenges of Establishing a New Center

Unique Aspects of IMS Founding: Teacherless Center

Legal Structure as a 'Church'

Cultural Changes: Team Teaching and Inclusivity

Deliberate Focus on Theravada Tradition

Navigating Traditional Practices in a Western Context

Humorous Anecdotes: Window Wars and Moss Garden

Financial Evolution: Daily Rates and Stipends

Growth and Impact of IMS: Mindfulness Movement

Future Hopes and Dreams for IMS

Funniest Memories from IMS's History

Eightfold Path

A foundational Buddhist list described as the Buddha's 'cookbook for a happy life,' providing guidance for a fulfilling existence.

Dharma

Refers to the teachings of the Buddha, understood as a universal 'way of life' open to anyone who wishes to practice, rather than an exclusive religion.

Teacherless Center

An organizational model where a spiritual center is founded and run by Western practitioners who then invite Asian teachers to visit, rather than being established by a single resident Asian teacher. This approach allows for greater freedom to experiment and adapt the teachings to the local culture.

Sacrodotal Functions

Specific practices or rituals required by the IRS for an organization to qualify as a 'church,' which grants certain privileges and immunities from federal government oversight.

Multi-Tradition Approach

A method of teaching that integrates practices from various Buddhist traditions, such as body scanning, noting, and metta, to cater to the diverse needs and preferences of students.

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How did the Insight Meditation Society (IMS) acquire its initial property?

IMS acquired a former Catholic novitiate in Barry, Massachusetts, for $150,000 after contacting various archdioceses, with Stephen Schwartz negotiating the price down from $850,000.

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How was IMS financed in its early days?

The initial $150,000 purchase required a $50,000 down payment, with $35,000 raised by friends and the final $15,000 generously donated by a student. The remaining $100,000 was covered by a $50,000 mortgage from the Blessed Sacrament fathers and $50,000 in personally co-signed loans from friends.

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Why did many of the IMS founders have a Jewish background?

The Tibetans observed this trend, theorizing that Jewish individuals, particularly post-Holocaust survivors, might have a heightened sensitivity to suffering that drew them to practice.

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What was unique about IMS's founding compared to other Western Buddhist centers?

Unlike many centers founded by an Asian teacher, IMS was established by young Western practitioners who then invited their Asian teachers to visit, allowing for greater freedom to experiment and adapt the Dharma to Western culture.

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How did IMS address the challenge of traditional Buddhist language and practices in a Western context?

IMS made conscious decisions to adapt, such as adopting team teaching, changing language to be more inclusive (e.g., addressing feminist concerns about patriarchal texts), and allowing for multi-tradition practices while maintaining a Theravada focus.

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What was the initial financial commitment for IMS staff?

In the early years, the first staff members received a monthly stipend of $25, reflecting their passion for the Dharma and willingness to contribute to its founding.

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How did the mindfulness movement, as we know it today, originate from IMS?

Jon Kabat-Zinn developed the idea for Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) while on retreat at IMS, realizing he could re-language Buddhist concepts in scientific terms for health and education.

1. Observe Your Mind Directly

If you want to understand your mind, sit down and observe it. This direct observation is a fundamental practice for self-discovery and clarity.

2. Trust the Dharma’s Protection

Embrace the belief that ’the Dharma protects those who protect the Dharma.’ This mindset suggests that dedication to spiritual practice will lead to support and resolution of difficulties.

3. Prioritize Rest to Prevent Burnout

When feeling energetically drained or burned out from intense work or interaction, take more vacations. This simple advice helps protect your energy and sustain your efforts.

4. Embrace Multi-Tradition Learning

Be open to learning from various spiritual traditions and psychological approaches. This broadens understanding and can deepen one’s presence, mindfulness, and overall practice.

5. Ensure Accessibility in Offerings

Prioritize accessibility and availability in spiritual offerings, both in-person and online. This ensures that people with limited resources, caregiving responsibilities, or restricted circumstances can still find community and practice.

Perfection is not on offer, but the practice of meditation can help you manage the ups and downs of life more seamlessly, especially when it comes to one of the difficult, one of the most difficult aspects of life, and that is interpersonal relationships.

Dan Harris

The motto of the town of Barry is tranquil and alert. And we just took that as a clear omen that this was the place for us because those are precisely the qualities that we cultivate in the practice.

Joseph Goldstein

The dharma protects those who protect the dharma.

Munindraji

The Buddha did not teach Buddhism. The Buddha taught a way of life. And this is open to anybody who wants to practice.

S.N. Goenka

Just call it Christianity.

Ajahn Chah

If you want to understand your mind, sit down and observe it.

Munindraji

The thing that astonishes me about IMS is that it was founded, has grown, and is flourishing without any adult supervision whatsoever.

Anonymous Yogi

He's a Buddhist.

Deepa Ma

Yes, Mahasi Sayadaw understands suffering.

Mahasi Sayadaw's translator
$850,000
Initial asking price for IMS property Negotiated down by Stephen Schwartz
$150,000
Final purchase price of IMS property For the former Catholic novitiate and 80 acres of land
$50,000
Down payment required for IMS property Comprised of $35,000 from friends and $15,000 from a student
$50,000
Mortgage provided by the Fathers of the Blessed Sacrament Part of the remaining financing for the property
$50,000
Amount from personally co-signed loans Used to open IMS after bank mortgages were unavailable
80
Number of rooms in the former novitiate building Initially seemed very large to the founders
80
Acres of land purchased with the property Part of the IMS property package
20
Years it took founders to figure out running the organization A significant learning curve parallel to Dharma development
$6.50
Initial daily rate per yogi Calculated to cover mandatory costs like heat and food
$25
Monthly stipend for first IMS staff members Reflecting their passion and commitment to the Dharma
100 people
Capacity of the IMS facility The number of people the center could sleep
1975
Year the Insight Meditation Society was founded Marking its 50th anniversary at the time of the podcast
1979
Year the Dalai Lama visited IMS A memorable event in IMS history