How to Engage Corona-Deniers (and Other Ethical Dilemmas)

Mar 27, 2020 Episode Page ↗
Overview

JoAnna Hardy, a meditation teacher specializing in Buddhist ethics, and Greg Epstein, the humanist chaplain at Harvard and MIT, discuss ethical dilemmas during COVID-19. They cover how to approach those not taking the pandemic seriously, the ethics of stocking up, and moving from cities.

At a Glance
22 Insights
1h Duration
10 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Ethical Dilemmas During COVID-19

Joanna Hardy's Background and Buddhist Ethics

Basics of Buddhist Ethics: The Five Precepts

Greg Epstein's Background and Humanist Ethics

Humanist Ethical Framework: Collaboration and Care

Dilemma: Handling People Not Taking the Pandemic Seriously

Dilemma: Ethical Implications of Hoarding Supplies

Dilemma: Ethics of Leaving Crowded Cities for Rural Areas

Dilemma: Breaking Social Distancing for Personal Affection

Self-Interest and the 'Bliss of Blamelessness' in Ethics

Buddhist Ethics (Five Precepts)

These are five guidelines for not causing harm to oneself or others, encompassing not killing, not stealing, being wise with sexuality, wise with speech, and not using intoxicants that lead to heedlessness. They are presented as challenges to live a clearer, cleaner, and lighter life, emphasizing the natural law of cause and effect.

Humanist Ethical Framework

This perspective believes that human beings created religion and their entire culture and value system, evolving moral systems. It's an exhortation to live the best possible lives, defined by love, care, connection, truth, and understanding, which are seen as the only things that truly make life worthwhile.

Wise Speech Precept

An aspect of Buddhist ethics that focuses on the timeliness and intention of communication. It suggests that meaningful conversations, approached from a place of genuine worry and care, are more effective than lecturing or flooding someone with facts, especially when trying to influence behavior during a crisis.

Renunciation (in Buddhist Ethics)

This concept involves watching and working with one's impulses and desires, particularly the urge for immediate gratification. It encourages pausing to consider if an action is truly needed 'right now' or if waiting serves a greater good, such as societal responsibility during a pandemic.

Bliss of Blamelessness

This term describes the freedom and liberation experienced when one is not carrying the mental weight of past actions or regrets. It's the peace that comes from knowing you've acted ethically, allowing for better sleep and a lighter heart, and is a core component of ethical practice.

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How should we handle people in our lives who are not taking the pandemic seriously?

Approach them from a place of genuine worry and care, rather than lecturing or flooding them with articles, to increase the chance of your message being heard. While empathy for their resistance is important, it's also acceptable to be firm and clear about necessary boundaries for safety.

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What are the ethical considerations when stocking up on supplies like toilet paper or Clorox wipes during a crisis?

Reflect on the 'why' behind the impulse to accumulate; if it's purely fear-based, acknowledge that fear with self-compassion. Recognize that taking something you don't immediately need can deprive someone else, emphasizing societal responsibility and what you truly need versus want.

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Is it ethically acceptable for affluent people to leave crowded cities for less populated areas during a pandemic?

At this point in the crisis, it's generally not acceptable, especially if moving from a high-risk area, as it risks spreading the virus and straining resources in the destination community. Such actions, driven by personal comfort, can rightly provoke anger from locals.

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Is it okay to occasionally break social distancing rules for personal affection, such as a child hugging an immunocompromised parent?

It is generally not advisable, as this situation calls for renunciation and watching impulses, prioritizing the greater good and long-term safety over immediate desires. The potential impact of getting a loved one sick is a significant ethical consideration.

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How do Buddhist ethics relate to self-interest?

Ethical conduct, like not causing harm, leads to a 'bliss of blamelessness' and freedom from mental burdens, allowing for better sleep and a lighter heart. This aligns with the idea that 'when I do good, I feel good,' suggesting that ethical behavior ultimately benefits oneself.

1. Follow Five Buddhist Precepts

Adhere to the five basic guidelines of Buddhist ethics: not causing harm (to self or others), not taking what isn’t freely given, being wise with sexuality, being careful with speech (truthful, kind, not gossiping), and avoiding intoxicants that lead to heedlessness.

2. Live with Love and Connection

Strive to live the best possible life by fostering love, care, and connection with others, and pursuing truth and understanding, as these are the things that make life worthwhile.

3. Practice Delayed Gratification

Recognize that immediate gratification often leads to temporary happiness and negative outcomes, while understanding the natural law of cause and effect in your actions can lead to a clearer, lighter life.

4. Seek Bliss of Blamelessness

Strive for actions that lead to the ‘bliss of blamelessness,’ experiencing freedom and liberation from the mental weight of regret, which often manifests as cognitive dissonance when overriding ethical alignment.

5. “Do Good, Feel Good” North Star

Let the principle ‘when I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad’ serve as your guiding North Star for ethical decisions, acknowledging that while mistakes will happen, this principle points towards alignment with your heart.

6. Pause and Question Harm

Before acting, use mindfulness to pause, check into your own fear or resistance, and consider the possible impact or outcome of your actions to avoid causing harm to others, even in small ways.

7. Practice Generosity, Renunciation

Act generously by considering what you truly need versus what you merely want, especially during times of scarcity, as taking what you don’t need can deprive others and goes against societal responsibility.

8. Self-Compassion vs. Self-Pity

Practice self-compassion by acknowledging your fears and difficult emotions without wallowing in self-pity; instead, use mindfulness to identify what is truly happening and take actionable steps to care for yourself.

9. Empathize with Denial

When angry at those in denial or not taking a situation seriously, try to empathize with their underlying needs, such as a desire for connection or belonging, by reflecting on your own past heedlessness.

10. Engage with Care, Not Confrontation

When addressing people not taking a serious situation seriously, approach them from a place of genuine worry and care, rather than flooding them with facts or rules, and seek to understand their perspective (e.g., fear or lack of understanding).

11. Show Compassion, Motivate Change

Acknowledge the radical changes people are facing and approach those resisting with compassion, letting them know you care about them and want them to change their behavior for their own good and the good of others.

12. Be Firm and Clear

While empathy and compassion are important, mindfulness also provides the wisdom and clarity to know when to be firm, clear, and straightforward in setting boundaries or enforcing guidelines, especially to protect your home and family.

13. Focus Anger on Harm

Acknowledge anger as a basic emotion, and when it’s well-placed (e.g., towards leaders whose harmful actions influence many), focus it on shutting down those actions as quickly as possible.

14. Practice Renunciation for Good

During critical times, practice renunciation by acknowledging desires for immediate affection or comfort, but choose to wait and hold those feelings, understanding that delaying gratification serves the greater good and prevents potential harm.

15. Reflect on Acquisition Motivation

Before acquiring items, especially during scarcity, reflect on your motivations by asking ‘why’ you are doing it; if it’s purely fear-based, acknowledge that fear and consider how your actions impact others who might be deprived.

16. Practice Self-Compassion for Mistakes

Recognize that during new and shocking circumstances, you will make mistakes or act in ways you’re not proud of; be easier on yourself by employing self-compassion as you navigate a new world.

17. Strive for Maximum Effort

Recognize that perfection is unattainable, but commit to doing everything you possibly can and stretching yourself to do more to help flatten the curve and support others during a crisis.

18. Assess Relocation Intent, Impact

Before relocating, especially from a high-risk area, carefully assess your intention and the potential impact of your move on the destination community, including their food supply and healthcare system.

19. Reconsider Non-Essential Relocation

If considering leaving a high-risk area for personal comfort, reflect on the potential harm of spreading the virus and stressing local resources in your destination, and be prepared for negative reactions from the community.

20. Daily Precepts Reminder

Take the five precepts every morning as a daily reminder to guide your actions and ethical practice throughout the day.

21. Seek Positive Actions

Actively look for opportunities to do things for and with one another, as positive actions can make life more worth living and strengthen connections.

22. Join Daily Sanity Breaks

Participate in 10% Happier Live every weekday at 3 Eastern/noon Pacific for a 20-minute guided meditation and Q&A to help maintain sanity during challenging times.

When I pay attention to harm and human need, what can change if care is the predominant function versus economics or, you know, progress or power?

Joanna Hardy

If I do this thing, then that thing happens, you know, very simply, if I get in a fight with a friend and I cuss them out and I call them names just because angers arising in me, the impact and the outcome is going to be a friendship that's not working.

Joanna Hardy

Humanism is a, it's an exhortation. It's a, it's a, it's a call to our fellow human beings to, to live the best possible lives that we can. And that to me very much means living a life of love and care and connection with one another, a life of, of truth and understanding to the greatest degree that we're capable.

Greg Epstein

When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion.

Dan Harris (attributing Abraham Lincoln)

You are not required to complete the work, but neither are you free from, to desist from it.

Greg Epstein (citing Talmudic invocation)

Buddhist Five Precepts (Guidelines for Ethical Living)

Joanna Hardy
  1. Not killing: Not causing physical or emotional harm to living beings, including oneself.
  2. Not stealing: Not taking what isn't freely given, and conversely, being generous and taking care of others.
  3. Being wise and careful with sexuality: Not harming relationships.
  4. Being wise and careful with speech: Not lying, not gossiping; being kind but truthful.
  5. Not using intoxicants that lead to mindlessness or heedlessness.

Approach to People Not Taking Pandemic Seriously (Wise Speech Precept)

Joanna Hardy
  1. Determine if it's the right time to talk, when the possibility of the message being received is real.
  2. Avoid flooding them with articles or lecturing.
  3. Speak from a place of genuine worry and care (e.g., 'I'm worried about mom').
  4. Listen to their perspective to understand their fears or lack of understanding.
  5. Be firm and clear about necessary boundaries (e.g., 'I'm going to take care of my house and my family, and there are certain guidelines').

Protocol for Hoarding/Accumulating Supplies During a Crisis

Joanna Hardy
  1. Ask yourself 'why' you are doing what you are doing when accumulating supplies.
  2. Reflect if fear is the leading factor.
  3. Acknowledge personal fear and practice self-compassion.
  4. Consider the impact on others: taking something you don't need means someone else might not get it.
  5. Recognize the difference between compassion and self-pity, moving from acknowledgement of fear to taking action (e.g., asking for help if truly needed).

General Ethical Approach During a Crisis

Greg Epstein
  1. Acknowledge the extraordinarily radical changes in life and have compassion for those rebelling against them.
  2. Identify people most at risk of not taking the situation seriously and express care for them.
  3. Let them know you want them to make changes in their behavior for their own and everyone's well-being.
  4. Recognize that anger is a basic emotion; it's appropriate and healthy to let some anger out at actions that will hurt people, especially from politicians or media leaders.
  5. Strive to do anything and everything possible to flatten the curve and help others, understanding that perfection is not required but desisting from the effort is not an option.

Ethical Approach to Personal Affection During Social Distancing

Joanna Hardy
  1. Practice renunciation by watching impulses and desires for immediate gratification (e.g., hugging loved ones).
  2. Acknowledge and sit with the feelings of wanting something you cannot have right now.
  3. Prioritize the 'bigger progress and the bigger process and the greater good' by waiting.
  4. Consider the potential negative impact on others (e.g., getting a loved one sick).
four and a half billion or so years old
Age of Earth (pale blue dot) Mentioned by Greg Epstein in describing the humanist worldview.
14 billion or so years
Age of the universe Mentioned by Greg Epstein in describing the humanist worldview.
a whole year long
Duration of Greg Epstein's sabbatical To focus on researching and writing about ethics in the technology industry, before COVID-19.
last hundred years
Time since a US president has dealt with a pandemic of this scale Mentioned by Joanna Hardy in the context of human experience with crises.
five, six months
Typical duration Joanna Hardy's daughter lives away from home Mentioned in the context of personal desire for affection during social distancing.