How To Handle Toxic Thoughts | Sebene Selassie and Jeff Warren

Aug 27, 2025 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Dan Harris, Sebene Selassie, Jeff Warren, and Aaron Schultz discuss handling negative thoughts and emotions, the five hindrances in meditation, and the connection between dancing and Dharma. They explore self-consciousness, neurodivergence, and working with shame.

At a Glance
46 Insights
1h 9m Duration
16 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction: Handling the Inner Asshole and Episode Overview

Working with Thoughts vs. Emotions in Meditation

The Power of Examined vs. Unexamined Thoughts

Understanding Affective Realism and Being Swallowed by the Whale

Audience Q&A: Working with Sticky Stories and Trauma

Audience Share: Experimenting with Open-Eyed and Walking Meditation

Audience Q&A: Distinguishing Allowing from Pushing Away Difficult Feelings

The Five Hindrances: Craving, Aversion, Restlessness, Sloth, Doubt

Navigating Pleasant and Unpleasant Meditation Experiences

Audience Q&A: Exploring Thoughts Without Getting Lost

Introducing Aaron Schultz: DJ, Dharma Practitioner, and Dance

The Cultural Shift and Self-Consciousness Around Dancing

Dancing as an Expression of Freedom and Buddha Nature

Audience Q&A: Right Effort, Expectations, and Neurodivergence in Practice

Audience Share: Alternative Meditation Postures and Group Dance Ideas

Audience Q&A: Working with Shame vs. Wise Remorse

Affective Realism

This is the phenomenon where one's current emotional state colors their perception of everything, making them see the world through the prism of that mood. For example, being in a slightly bad mood can make everyone seem aggressive or things appear generally crappy.

The Five Hindrances

These are a Buddhist list of the five main problems that tend to arise in meditation: craving, aversion, restlessness, sloth (sleepiness), and doubt. They represent unconscious reactivity to life, but each also has a conscious, intelligent counterpart (e.g., discernment for doubt, excitement for restlessness).

Purification (in meditation)

This refers to a non-linear process in meditation where, through equanimity and having complete experiences, old patterns and reactivities are metabolized. It's not about being 'creepy and religious' but a real sense of things clearing out, leading to more peace and open space.

Right Effort

In meditation, right effort is not about striving for a particular outcome or forcing stillness, but rather about being present with what is happening and accepting it. For neurodivergent individuals, this might mean adapting practice to include movement rather than strict stillness, focusing on presence over posture.

Wise Remorse

This is a Buddhist concept that differs from shame or guilt. Wise remorse involves acknowledging a mistake, learning from it, and making amends, without making it about one's inherent badness. It allows for growth and action, unlike the psychic constipation of shame.

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How can one work with particularly sticky stories or trauma in meditation?

Meditation is not the only tool; therapy, community, and other healing modalities are crucial. Meditation skills like compassion and equanimity can help prevent stories from escalating and soften their authority over time, but patience is key.

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How can you tell if you are truly allowing unpleasant feelings or just pushing them away in meditation?

True allowing involves a quality of turning towards the feeling with curiosity, investigating its sensations, and softening any tension or reactivity. If there's quickness or an attempt to control the feeling, it might be a subtle form of resistance.

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How can one explore thoughts in meditation without getting lost in them?

One approach is to investigate the thought itself, realizing its insubstantiality once examined. Another is to categorize thoughts as 'useful' or 'not useful' and gently drop the unhelpful ones. A specific technique involves tracking 'image in,' 'talk in,' and 'feel in' to gain clarity on the thinking process.

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Why do many people feel uncomfortable or self-conscious about dancing?

Self-consciousness often stems from a fear of judgment or feeling inadequate, especially in social settings that value 'coolness.' It can be linked to a lack of cultural tradition around dance or a perceived need to perform rather than simply express.

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What is 'right effort' in meditation, especially for individuals with ADHD or neurodivergence?

Right effort is about being present with what is happening, not forcing stillness or expecting a specific experience. For neurodivergent individuals, this often means embracing movement practices (like walking, yoga, or Qigong) and adapting to how one is wired, rather than adhering to traditional seated stillness.

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What is the difference between shame and wise remorse?

Shame is a toxic feeling of being fundamentally bad or undeserving of existence, often leading to psychic constipation and inaction. Wise remorse, in contrast, is an acknowledgment of having done something wrong, coupled with a desire to learn from it and make amends, without internalizing the mistake as a core identity flaw.

1. Reject Shame as Untrue

Recognize that shame is a toxic and fundamentally untrue belief that you are inherently bad or don’t deserve to exist; it has no useful purpose.

2. Distinguish Shame from Remorse

Differentiate between shame/guilt (self-focused and paralyzing) and wise remorse (acknowledging mistakes, making amends, and learning). Use self-compassion to move from shame to wise remorse, recognizing mistakes without deeming yourself ‘holistically horrible’.

3. Cultivate Complete Experiences

Aim for ‘complete experiences’ by being fully present, settled, concentrated, clear, and equanimous with whatever arises. This metabolizes old patterns and prevents new reactivity, leading to healing and peace.

4. Track Thoughts (See/Hear/Feel In)

Practice Shinzen Young’s ‘see in, feel in, hear in’ method to gain clarity on thinking. Identify where visual thoughts appear, where inner talk is heard, and where emotional body sensations are felt, then track these three components.

5. Focus on Presence as Core

The ’trunk’ of practice is not stillness, but consistently being present, accepting what is happening, letting go of distracting thoughts, and returning to your chosen object of attention.

6. Address Shame with Self-Compassion

When shame arises, practice self-compassion by treating yourself with the same kindness you’d offer a child. Concurrently, work with a trauma therapist to understand and heal the underlying origins of the shame.

7. Shift from Reactive to Receptive

Instead of reacting quickly to fix or control, cultivate a relaxed and receptive attitude. Allow what’s happening before consciously choosing to engage or return to a home base.

8. Welcome Difficult Emotions

When challenging emotions arise, welcome them with curiosity, inviting them in as if making space for a guest. Investigate their sensations and changes without judgment, shifting attention if overwhelming and returning when resourced.

9. Soften and Allow Difficulties

Instead of trying to manage or control difficulties with tightness, practice softening, slowing down, and allowing things to be. Ask ‘What’s happening right now?’ and ‘Can I allow this?’ to create space and bring a peaceful, allowing attitude.

10. Utilize Diverse Healing Tools

Recognize that meditation is not the only tool for working with sticky stories and trauma. Integrate therapy, community, and other healing modalities as appropriate for your specific challenges.

11. Examine Your Thoughts

Unexamined thoughts can feel all-encompassing, but when examined, they reveal their insubstantiality, becoming ’little more than nothing’.

12. Investigate Fleeting Thoughts

When you notice thinking, actively ‘go looking for the thought’ to observe its insubstantiality and ephemeral nature, which can be liberating.

13. Cultivate Interest in Distraction

Instead of getting upset when carried away by thoughts (the ‘whale’), cultivate interest in how thoroughly thoughts can hijack your attention.

14. View Experiences as Passing States

Approach all meditation experiences, whether blissful or challenging, as passing mind states, like meteorology, without craving or clinging to any particular outcome.

15. Mindfulness Reduces Suffering

If you are suffering, it indicates a lack of mindfulness. By being mindful of even unpleasant experiences and stories, the actual pain diminishes.

16. Reframe Emotions as Human

Recognize that emotions like grief are natural parts of the human experience and not inherently ‘bad’. It’s your relationship to them that can make them problematic.

17. Relate Consciously to Hindrances

Understand that hindrances (craving, aversion, restlessness, sloth, doubt) have intelligent counterparts. Practice relating to your life consciously rather than through unconscious, reactive habits.

18. Release Expectations for Meditation

Avoid bringing expectations to meditation, as anticipating a certain experience or performance on the cushion leads to suffering and disappointment.

19. Measure Quality by Awareness

The quality of a meditation session is measured by your level of awareness for whatever experience is present, not by the nature of the experience itself.

20. Recognize Self-Consciousness as Internal

Understand that inhibitions and self-consciousness are creations of your own mind, not external reality. You can therefore notice and work with them internally.

21. Dance With Self-Consciousness

Become aware of where self-consciousness manifests in your body and ‘dance with it’ by moving around it, playing with it, or simply noticing it. This creates space instead of collapsing into it.

22. Adapt Practice for Neurodivergence

If you have ADHD or similar neurodivergence, prioritize movement practices (yoga, swimming, Qigong, dancing) over stillness. Move ‘at the speed of awareness’ to cultivate presence in a way that aligns with your wiring.

23. Understand Shame vs. Remorse

Remember that remorse focuses on an action (‘I did something terrible’), while shame focuses on identity (‘I am terrible’).

24. Seek Freedom Beyond Limitations

Recognize that the ultimate fruit of practice is increased freedom, liberation, and a greater sense of possibility. This allows you to move more freely in all areas of life.

25. Meditate in a Group

Meditating as a group or having friends who take meditation seriously is incredibly powerful, supported by science, and can enhance your practice.

26. Apply Compassion to Old Stories

When old, sticky stories arise, use the compassion cultivated in meditation to settle yourself and prevent the story from escalating. Accept its presence without needing to change it.

27. Be a Friend to Yourself

Practice leaning into yourself and providing the same kind of friendship and support you would offer to a friend.

28. Heal Through Human Connection

Connecting with others who share similar struggles provides human connection and a sense of shared experience, which is inherently healing.

29. Label Intrusive Thoughts

For repetitive or intrusive thoughts, gently label them ‘dead end’ (as in, ‘is this useful?’) or ‘up and out’ to avoid entanglement, ensuring the labeling isn’t hostile.

30. Patiently Observe Mood Tunnels

Recognize when you’re caught in an ‘affective realism’ or ‘mood tunnel’ where emotions color all perceptions. Patiently work to see the underlying ’thing’ you’re in.

31. Value Spiritual Friendship

Having friends who also meditate or take spiritual practice seriously is incredibly powerful, as it allows you to do ’this stuff in the HOV lane’.

32. Meditate with Eyes Open

If you find your mind wandering easily with eyes closed, try meditating with a soft, open gaze. The visual world can help crowd out thinking and provide a sense of space.

33. Diversify Meditation Postures

Don’t limit meditation to sitting still with eyes closed; explore walking and standing practices to find what works best for you and to stay with difficult emotions.

34. Practice Walking Meditation

Engage in walking meditation, even at a slow-ish pace. The body’s movement through space can help you catch thoughts as they arise.

35. Practice Patience in Healing

Healing from deep-seated stories and patterns through meditation requires patience, as it’s an organic, long-term process.

36. Acknowledge Self-Awareness

Recognizing your own subtle aversions or missteps in practice is a sign of mindfulness and interest, which is the opposite of delusion, and indicates progress.

37. Reconnect with Dance for Freedom

Recognize that dance has historically been a universal way to connect to freedom across cultures and generations. Consider reconnecting with it as a practice.

38. Use Dance to Track Self-Consciousness

View dancing as a fertile ground to track and notice feelings of self-consciousness, group safety, and societal norms you’ve internalized.

39. Lower Bar for Group Participation

To encourage others, fearlessly act ’like an idiot’ or set a very low bar for participation. This gives others permission to drop their inhibitions and join in.

40. Create Judgement-Free Environment

To help people drop inhibitions, especially in dance, create an environment with low lights or other elements that make people feel less observed and judged.

41. Express Inner Freedom Through Dance

View dance as a direct expression of your inherent freedom or ‘Buddha nature’, allowing it to be a liberating practice.

42. Embody ‘Dance Like No One’s Watching’

Consciously embody the adage ‘dance like no one’s watching’ when dancing, actively bringing that mindset to the forefront.

43. Practice Ecstatic Dance for Release

Engage in ‘Ecstatic Dance’ or similar practices in comfortable spaces to drop inhibitions, allow freedom of movement, and experience cathartic emotional release.

44. Practice Contemplation of Sound

Engage in contemplation of sound by sitting and listening without naming or conceptualizing what you hear. Simply be present with the auditory experience.

45. Engage in Structured Group Dance

To overcome self-consciousness in dance, participate in or organize structured group dances where the focus is on collective movement and learning steps, rather than individual free expression.

46. Model Self-Compassion for Others

Practice and model self-compassion not just for your own benefit, but also to teach and demonstrate healthy emotional responses to those around you, especially children.

Unexamined thoughts are everything. Examined, they're little more than nothing.

Sam Harris (quoted by Dan Harris)

Peace is not the destination, peace is the way.

Martin Luther King Jr. (quoted by Sebene Selassie)

If you're suffering, there's something I'm not mindful of.

Dan Harris

Your brain has never stepped one millimeter outside of your skull.

Guo Gu (quoted by Aaron Schultz)

Shame is useless.

Sebene Selassie

Remorse is I did something terrible and shame is I am terrible.

Melissa