How To Stay Open and Curious Even When You're Exhausted or Annoyed | Sarah Ruhl

Oct 29, 2025 Episode Page ↗
Overview

This episode features Sarah Ruhl, an award-winning playwright and professor, discussing how to combat boredom and autopilot by approaching life as a perpetual student and teacher. She shares insights on learning from everyone, the value of flesh-and-blood teachers, and navigating challenges like Bell's palsy with an open mind.

At a Glance
31 Insights
1h 14m Duration
16 Topics
6 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to the 'Perpetual Student' Mindset

The Genesis of 'Lessons from My Teachers'

Personal Health Challenges: Bell's Palsy and Lyme Disease

The Social Dimension of Emotional Expression

Cultivating Gratitude for All Teachers

Learning from Unconventional Teachers (e.g., a babysitter)

The Indispensable Role of Human Presence in Teaching

Transitioning from Student to Teacher: Overcoming Imposter Syndrome

Leadership and Parenting as Continuous Teaching

The Student Becoming the Master: Learning from Younger Generations

The Necessity of 'The Other' in Learning and Self-Teaching

Serendipitous Encounters with Meditation Teachers

Modern Meditation Teacher-Student Relationships

Dr. Mark Epstein's Teachings: Lightness and Emotional Detachment

Openness to Synchronicity and the Magical Nature of Reality

Learning from Rejection and Critical Feedback

Perpetual Student Mindset

An orientation towards the world with eagerness and curiosity, viewing everything and everyone as a potential source of learning. This mindset helps escape boredom and autopilot, fostering gratitude and openness.

The Social Nature of Happiness

The idea that one's emotional life and happiness are not purely internal or solo endeavors, but are deeply intertwined with social interactions and the ability to express emotions to others. Restrictions on emotional expression, like Bell's palsy, highlight this interdependence.

Wise Selfishness

A concept, attributed to the Dalai Lama, suggesting that thinking about the benefit of other people ultimately leads to greater personal happiness. It reframes self-interest within a broader perspective of collective well-being.

Synkinesis

A condition that can occur after nerve damage, such as Bell's palsy, where regenerating nerves recruit the wrong muscles, causing unintended movements or expressions. For example, a smile might inadvertently look like a grimace due to misdirected muscle activation.

Leaving an Emotion Alone

A therapeutic and meditative approach, taught by Dr. Mark Epstein, that involves acknowledging an emotion or thought without constantly poking at it or trying to excavate its origins. Instead, one allows it to float away, similar to observing thoughts in meditation.

Gradations of Rejection

A framework for understanding rejection, particularly in creative fields, by categorizing rejection letters based on their level of personalization and encouragement. This helps artists perceive progress and not fixate solely on the negative aspect of being turned down.

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How can one escape boredom and autopilot in daily life?

One way is to approach the world as a perpetual student, eager to learn from everything and everyone, fostering curiosity and openness.

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What is the significance of flesh-and-blood teachers compared to digital learning?

Flesh-and-blood teachers provide a crucial 'relation' that is removed in learning from the internet or AI; the tangible impact of great teachers often comes from this personal connection and reflection.

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How can individuals cultivate a mindset of openness and willingness to learn from everyone?

Becoming aware of and grateful for all the teachers one has had throughout life, even for basic skills like tying shoes, can create a shift towards greater openness and curiosity.

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Can people who work for you, like a babysitter, also be teachers?

Yes, anyone who crosses your path can be a teacher, especially if you cultivate an openness to learn from their presence, temperament, and actions, even if their teachings are implicit rather than explicit.

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How can one overcome imposter syndrome when becoming a teacher or mentor?

It often takes practice and being honest about the lineage and influences one has received, realizing that one has unique experiences and insights to pass on, separate from one's own teachers.

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Can you truly be your own teacher?

According to Sarah Ruhl, you cannot, because knowledge is a social phenomenon that requires 'the other' – another person – for true learning and reflection.

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What is the goal of both psychotherapy and Buddhism?

According to Dr. Mark Epstein, the goal of both psychotherapy and Buddhism is 'lightness,' suggesting a shedding of burdens and a more unencumbered way of being.

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How can one deal with negative emotions or persistent thoughts?

One method is to 'leave an emotion alone' or 'dead end' a thought, acknowledging it but then letting it float away without constant excavation or rumination, similar to a meditation practice.

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How can artists or writers cope with rejection?

Paula Vogel taught a method of categorizing rejection letters by their level of personalization and encouragement, helping artists see gradations of progress rather than just outright failure, fostering persistence.

1. Orient as Perpetual Student

Actively orient your life as a perpetual student, approaching the world with curiosity and a willingness to learn from everything and everyone. This mindset helps avoid boredom and reconnects you with the richness of being alive.

2. Practice Wise Selfishness

Adopt the Dalai Lama’s concept of ‘wise selfishness’ by focusing on the benefit of others. Thinking about how you can be useful to others ultimately leads to greater personal happiness.

3. Teach with Intention

Recognize that you are constantly teaching through your actions, especially as a parent or boss. Be mindful and intentional about the lessons you impart, choosing to act with love rather than mindlessly.

4. Seek Flesh-and-Blood Teachers

Actively seek out other people as teachers, prioritizing flesh-and-blood interactions over purely digital or AI sources. The tangible ‘relation’ with a real person provides unique reflective energy and impact.

5. Maintain Openness as Teacher

As a teacher or mentor, remain open to learning from your students, recognizing that roles can fluidly interchange. This prevents rigidity and fosters a dynamic learning environment.

6. Reflect on Past Teachers

Take time to reflect on all the individuals who have taught you throughout your life, even for basic skills. This practice cultivates gratitude and increases your openness to future learning opportunities.

7. Learn from Anyone

Cultivate a willingness to learn from anyone who crosses your path, regardless of their formal role or your relationship with them. This expands your sources of wisdom beyond traditional mentors.

8. Learn from Annoying People

Practice gratitude even towards annoying or difficult people, viewing them as teachers who help you develop patience and work on personal growth.

9. Cultivate Clarity & Warmth

In your meditative or spiritual practice, strive to cultivate both intellectual understanding (light) and heartfelt compassion (warmth). This balance ensures a rich, connected, and not cold or detached practice.

10. Leave Emotions/Thoughts Alone

Practice acknowledging emotions or thoughts without continually ‘poking at’ or analyzing them, then allow them to naturally dissipate. This prevents getting stuck in unproductive rumination and exacerbating emotional wounds.

11. Use ‘Dead End’ for Rumination

When you find yourself caught in unhelpful or repetitive thought patterns, mentally interject with the phrase ‘dead end.’ This technique helps to stop unproductive thinking and conserve mental energy.

12. Strive for Lightness

Adopt ’lightness’ as a primary goal in your personal growth and spiritual practices. This implies a reduction of suffering and a more unburdened, less serious way of being.

13. ‘Lighten Up’ for Enlightenment

Reframe the concept of enlightenment as ’lightening up,’ which involves taking yourself less seriously and personally. This shift can make you more available and less contracted around your views.

14. Develop Inner Teacher

Engage in meditation to observe your own mind, which can help you develop an ‘inner teacher’ for self-guidance and support during challenges. This fosters an internal relationship for personal growth.

15. Self-Mentor in Extremis

Channel your capacity for mentoring others towards yourself, offering internal support and encouragement when you are in difficult or extreme situations.

16. Create Personal Reminders

Implement personal reminders, such as a specific phrase or a visual cue, to consistently adopt and maintain a desired mindset or behavior. This helps counteract forgetfulness in daily life.

17. Pause Before Reacting

In frustrating or challenging situations, create a pause before reacting to consider the lessons your behavior might be imparting to others, especially children. This allows for more intentional responses.

18. Learn from Teacher’s Presence

Seek opportunities to spend time with wise individuals or teachers, even informally, to learn implicitly by observing their presence and how they handle various situations.

19. Cultivate Positive Peer Pressure

Intentionally surround yourself with positive influences and peers who model desirable behaviors. This creates a beneficial ‘peer pressure’ that continuously reinforces personal growth.

20. Avoid Working with Assholes

Make a conscious choice to avoid working with individuals who are difficult or unpleasant. This protects your well-being and fosters a more positive and productive work environment.

21. Practice Teaching to Build Confidence

If you experience imposter syndrome about teaching or sharing your knowledge, overcome it by actively practicing and just trying to teach. Confidence often develops through doing.

22. Teach with Love

Allow your willingness to teach to be animated by a deep love for your subject, your art form, or the desire for your passion to continue beyond yourself.

23. Approach Grief Indirectly

When dealing with intense grief or overwhelming emotions, consider approaching them indirectly through creative expression or other oblique methods. This can aid processing without direct confrontation.

24. Adapt Emotional Expression

If facial expressions are limited or difficult to convey, find alternative ways to express emotions like joy and love, such as through your voice or hand gestures. This ensures your intentions are communicated effectively.

25. Use Non-Facial Listening Cues

When listening, use non-facial cues like hand gestures or verbal affirmations (e.g., murmuring) to demonstrate attentiveness. This helps others feel heard and understood, especially if facial mirroring is not possible.

26. View Everything as Magic

Adopt the perspective that ’everything is magic’ or a result of an ‘ocean of causes and conditions.’ This mindset can ‘wake you up’ to the wonder and interconnectedness of reality.

27. Cultivate Openness to New Experiences

Develop an open mind towards new experiences or things you’ve historically disliked. This openness can lead to unexpected enjoyment and learning.

28. Develop Persistence from Rejection

View rejection not as a failure, but as an opportunity to practice and develop persistence. This mindset is crucial for achieving goals in any field with frequent setbacks.

29. Analyze Rejection for Progress

When facing rejection, analyze the details and ‘gradations’ of the rejection (e.g., personalized feedback vs. form letter). This helps identify signs of progress and prevents fixation solely on the ’no.’

30. Cultivate Resilience with Bad Teachers

When encountering a ‘bad teacher’ or difficult situation, focus on cultivating your own resilience and well-being to navigate the experience. Learning self-preservation is a valuable outcome.

31. Reject Hated Assignments

Learn to identify and, if possible, reject assignments or tasks that you genuinely dislike and that go against your core inclinations. This helps preserve your enthusiasm and joy for your work.

It is so easy, if you're not careful, to lapse into a kind of boredom and autopilot where the world seems flat and gray, where you're cut off from the mundane glory of this whole being alive thing.

Dan Harris

When we learn things from the internet or AI or masterclass or whatever it is, the relation is the one thing that's totally removed. And yet when you think of the impact great teachers have had on you, it's usually something very tangible.

Sarah Ruhl

Life is pounding enough at your psyche that you don't have a choice but to open.

Dan Harris

Teachers are always teaching explicitly and implicitly.

Sarah Curtis (quoted by Sarah Ruhl)

Kids know where the love is.

Eleanor (Nene) (quoted by Dan Harris)

The point is lightness, that that was the goal of both [psychotherapy and Buddhism].

Mark Epstein (quoted by Sarah Ruhl)

Everything's magic.

Dan Harris

It's like how the sun has both light and heat. And she was saying, so like this practice is supposed to, you're supposed to get warm here.

Unnamed teacher (quoted by Sarah Ruhl)

Protocol for Dealing with Rejection

Paula Vogel (described by Sarah Ruhl)
  1. Take all of your rejection letters and put them in piles.
  2. Create a pile for Xeroxed letters, which acknowledge receipt of your work.
  3. Create a pile for letters that have a signature (this is a 'good rejection', about 10% of total).
  4. Create a pile for letters that are signed and say 'we want to read your next play and we want you to come in and talk to us' (this is 'really special', about 1% or less).
  5. Don't fixate on the rejection; instead, think of the gradations and acknowledge that you are making progress.
15 years
Bell's Palsy duration Sarah Ruhl's Bell's palsy lasted this long, leading to a Lyme disease diagnosis.
25
Age of Max Ritvo at death Sarah Ruhl's student, a poet, died at this age from Ewing sarcoma.
3
Number of children Sarah Ruhl had under age three at one point She had twins and a three-year-old.
10%
Percentage of rejection letters with a signature (Paula Vogel's teaching) This indicates a 'good rejection' according to Paula Vogel's framework for writers.
1% or less
Percentage of rejection letters that ask to read your next play (Paula Vogel's teaching) This is considered 'really special' and indicates significant progress for a writer.
About 10 years
Years Sarah Ruhl has seen Dr. Mark Epstein The duration of Sarah Ruhl's therapeutic relationship with Dr. Mark Epstein.