I Just Did A 10-Day Silent Meditation Retreat With Joseph Goldstein. Here's What I Learned

Sep 11, 2024 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Dan Harris and Senior Producer Marissa Schneiderman discuss their recent 10-day silent meditation retreats with teachers Joseph Goldstein, Alexis Santos, and Andrea Fella. They share personal struggles, insights, and practical techniques for navigating the mind during intense meditation.

At a Glance
27 Insights
1h 18m Duration
19 Topics
10 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Meditation Retreats and Common Questions

Dan's Luxury Retreat Format with Joseph Goldstein

Marissa's Donation-Based Retreat Experience

Traditional Meditation Retreat Schedule Explained

Tejaniya-Style Practice: Awareness in All Activities

Struggles and Resistance on Retreat

Joseph Goldstein's 'Not Mine, Not I, Not Myself' Teaching

The Five Hindrances in Meditation Practice

'Cowboy Dharma' / 'Gamer Dharma' Technique

The Importance of Allowing Difficult Emotions

Value of Repetition and Re-listening to Teachings

Understanding Delusion as a Root Poison

Recognizing Moments of Non-Clinging

Listener Q&A: Sharing Insights Affecting Practice

Listener Q&A: Overcoming Post-Retreat Aversion

Listener Q&A: Best and Worst Retreat Days

Listener Q&A: Accessibility and Cost of Retreats

Listener Q&A: Meditation Tolerance and Benefits

Reentry into Daily Life After Retreat

Kalyana Mita (Spiritual Friendship)

A Buddhist term referring to spiritual friendship or friends on the path, signifying a group of fellow practitioners who support each other, share insights, and grow together in their practice.

Sangha

A Buddhist term meaning a group of fellow practitioners or a community, emphasizing the importance of collective support and shared practice in the meditation journey.

Samadhi (Concentration)

A term of art in meditation for mental concentration, characterized by a decrease in mental chatter and an improved ability to stay focused on the chosen object of practice, such as breath or bodily sensations.

Not Mine, Not I, Not Myself

A refrain from Buddhist scriptures used as a meditative practice to deepen the understanding of selflessness. It involves viewing all arising phenomena—thoughts, emotions, perceptions, and bodily sensations—as impersonal and not belonging to a fixed, individual self, thereby cutting through craving, conceit, and wrong view.

Five Hindrances

Common obstacles that arise during meditation practice, which include boredom and restlessness, doubt, sloth and torpor, greed or wanting, and aversion or not wanting.

Doubt Masquerading as Wisdom

A description of how doubt, particularly in meditation, can present itself as wise-sounding thoughts that question the purpose or effectiveness of the practice, leading to paralysis rather than genuine inquiry.

Cowboy Dharma / Gamer Dharma

A playful technique for addressing persistent hindrances or difficult thoughts. It involves mindfully observing the recurring thought or emotion, smiling at it, and metaphorically 'shooting' it with a Nerf gun, ensuring the approach is lighthearted and not driven by aversion itself.

Three Root Poisons

Fundamental unwholesome qualities from which other negative states stem: greed (the desire to acquire things), hatred/aversion (the desire to push things away), and delusion (deeply rooted false beliefs or misinterpretations of reality).

Dharma Rain Approach

A metaphor for receiving spiritual teachings, where one allows the information to be absorbed without grasping or forcing understanding. The idea is to trust that what is useful will be remembered or resurface when needed, like seeds being watered by rain.

Liberation Through Non-Clinging

The absolute essence of Buddhist practice, where freedom of mind is achieved by not clinging to any experiences, thoughts, or feelings. This understanding arises from seeing the impermanent and selfless nature of all phenomena.

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What is a meditation retreat like?

It's a monastic time to be with the mind and heart, free from distractions, often leading to difficult self-knowledge but ultimately making life easier once those hard truths are integrated.

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What is the typical schedule on a traditional silent meditation retreat?

Participants usually wake early (e.g., 5:30 AM), meditate for 45-60 minutes, have breakfast, then alternate blocks of sitting and walking meditation until lunch, followed by more sit/walk blocks, a light supper, an evening Dharma talk, and more meditation until around 10 PM.

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How do you deal with resistance and negative thoughts during a retreat?

Resistance, loneliness, and other difficult emotions are seen as just another thing to be aware of; by labeling them (e.g., 'aversion') and not clinging to them, their power diminishes, allowing for a non-judgmental remove.

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What is the 'not mine, not I, not myself' practice?

This practice involves dropping the phrase 'not mine, not I, not myself' into the mind while observing any thought, emotion, perception, or sensation, to realize their impersonal and selfless nature, cutting through craving, conceit, and wrong view.

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How can one overcome aversion to meditating after a difficult retreat experience?

It might be helpful to try a different form of meditation (e.g., straight mindfulness instead of loving-kindness) or to observe how one's inner state is stormier when not meditating, which can provide intrinsic motivation to return to practice.

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Are meditation retreats only for the elite or prohibitively expensive?

No, many centers are donation-based or offer scholarships and work trades; retreats can also be shorter than 10 days (e.g., weekends, 5 days), residential (attending daily from home), or even done online, making them accessible beyond financial means.

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Can you develop a 'meditation tolerance' similar to drug use, needing more and more to maintain benefits?

No, meditation is considered a wholesome pleasure, distinct from substances like ice cream or cocaine; benefits do not diminish, and while one may want to do more, it doesn't lead to a tolerance requiring increasing amounts for effect.

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Is reentry into daily life difficult after a silent meditation retreat?

It varies; some people struggle with the jarring transition back to talking and distractions, while others, especially with a softer reentry process involving family and friends, find it easy and are happy to return to regular life, though old patterns can reassert themselves.

1. Practice Non-Clinging

Focus on non-clinging as the ultimate goal of practice, rather than seeking specific experiences like ‘selflessness,’ which can become a subtle form of craving. The freedom of mind lies in not clinging to anything that arises.

2. Observe Thoughts as Empty

Practice seeing thoughts as ’little more than nothing’ and ’empty of self,’ rather than taking them seriously or personally. This helps to reduce their power over you and prevents acting them out blindly.

3. Use ‘Not Mine, Not I, Not Myself’

To cultivate selflessness and non-clinging, mentally repeat the phrase ’not mine, not I, not myself’ when observing thoughts, emotions, perceptions, or bodily sensations. Start with easily observable phenomena and gradually extend to more difficult objects like thoughts and emotions.

4. Practice ‘Gamer Dharma’ Playfully

Playfully observe hindrances (like doubt, aversion, or self-judgment) as they arise, seeing them with clear mindfulness, smiling at them, and ‘shooting them with a Nerf gun’ to depersonalize them without aggression. Ensure this approach is not rooted in aversion but in gentle, accepting awareness.

5. Cultivate All-Day Awareness

Practice ‘awareness’ in all daily activities (walking, sleeping, moving, eating) rather than just formal meditation, trusting that wisdom will arise from continuous awareness. This allows things to feel more relaxed and open.

6. Recognize Delusion in Beliefs

Actively investigate deeply rooted beliefs that you mistake for facts (e.g., ’no one likes me’), recognizing them as ‘delusion’ to unlock new perspectives. This helps to see the world without the ‘shit-colored glasses’ of your conditioned attitudes.

7. Identify Suffering as Unmindfulness

When experiencing suffering, investigate it as an indication that there is something you are not fully mindful of, and bring awareness to it. As long as you are aware of the specific emotion, it transforms from a problem into an object of observation.

8. Surrender to the Dharma

Cultivate ‘faith’ (trust or confidence) in the Dharma by surrendering to the practice, even when it feels difficult or unproductive. When practice feels stagnant, simplify your approach to ‘just sit and walk,’ persevering in the basic instructions.

9. Cultivate Spiritual Friendships

Actively cultivate and participate in a community of fellow practitioners (Sangha), recognizing it as an essential and often undervalued part of the practice. This provides support and makes the path easier, especially during retreats.

10. Record & Re-listen to Teachings

Record and re-listen to important teachings or conversations (e.g., with a teacher) in small chunks over subsequent days, especially during other routine activities like stretching. This helps to better absorb and integrate complex information that might be missed in the initial hearing.

11. Embrace Repetition for Growth

To counteract forgetting in personal growth, commit to repeated exposure to teachings and insights, as they need to be heard and revisited continuously. This deep listening allows insights to land more deeply over time.

12. Expect Initial Retreat Challenges

Expect the first few days of a meditation retreat to be challenging, marked by sleepiness, doubt, and loneliness, as this is a normal process of the mind settling and developing concentration (samadhi). Persevere through this initial difficulty.

13. Start with Traditional Retreats

For beginners, start with formal, traditional meditation retreats that have a set schedule and group setting. This is generally recommended over individualized ‘concierge’ retreats to gain foundational experience.

14. Practice Walking Meditation

Engage in walking meditation by bringing full attention to the feeling of your body moving through space, typically at a very slow pace. If distracted, gently restart your focus on the sensations.

15. Attend Dharma Talks

Attend Dharma talks or study Buddhist teachings to understand the intellectual infrastructure of meditation practice. This can provide inspiration and remind you of your purpose when practice feels difficult or ‘stupid’.

16. Communicate with Your Teacher

Communicate your struggles and preferences with your meditation teacher, as they may adapt instructions to better suit your individual needs. This personalized guidance can significantly enhance your practice.

17. Avoid Over-Intensity in Practice

Avoid being ‘super intense’ about meditation practice, such as tracking hours or trying to achieve a certain number of hours, as this can lead to misery despite intense experiences. Focus on gentle, consistent engagement.

18. Observe ‘Future Conversations’

Observe the habit of having ‘future conversations’ or imaginary dialogues in your mind, recognizing them as a form of being ‘caught’ in a story or mental proliferation. This observation helps to understand the unusefulness of such mental activity.

19. Try Different Meditation Forms

If you’ve had a difficult or ’traumatic’ experience with one form of meditation (e.g., loving kindness), consider trying a different form, such as straight mindfulness, to re-engage with practice more gently.

20. Monitor Inner Weather Off-Cushion

To regain motivation for meditation after a break or difficult experience, pay close attention to your ‘inner weather’ (mood, mental state) when you are not meditating. Noticing a stormier inner state can provide intrinsic motivation to return to practice.

21. Prioritize Relaxation on Retreat

When returning to meditation or retreat after a difficult experience, prioritize relaxation, sleep, and eating, allowing yourself to ‘sometimes meditate’ rather than rigidly ‘getting the job done.’ This fosters a gentler re-engagement.

22. Consult Teacher for Retreats

Consult with a meditation teacher who knows your practice to determine if a retreat is suitable for you, especially after difficult experiences. There is no single ‘right way’ to approach retreats, and personalized advice is valuable.

23. Focus on Moment-to-Moment Change

In meditation, focus on observing the moment-to-moment changes in experience rather than labeling entire days or sessions as ‘good’ or ‘bad.’ Recognize that impermanence is a core insight of the practice and avoid clinging to perceived outcomes.

24. Explore Accessible Retreat Options

To make retreats accessible, explore donation-based centers, scholarships, work-trade options, residential retreats (where you go home to sleep), or online retreats. Remember that you don’t have to do 10 days; shorter durations are also beneficial.

25. Plan Soft Retreat Reentry

Plan a ‘soft reentry’ after a meditation retreat by gradually re-engaging with family and friends and debriefing your experiences. Avoid immediately diving back into intense daily life to allow for smoother integration.

26. Practice Lightly, Time Not Factor

Approach spiritual practice with a sense of lightness and fun, understanding that it’s a long-term training process that requires consistent practice and patience. Release the expectation of specific timelines or progress, as ’time is not a factor’.

27. View Insights as Gifts

View the insights gained from retreat (e.g., recognizing delusion, observing imaginary conversations) as valuable ‘gifts’ for ongoing self-observation and practice in daily life. These are tools to continue working with.

Self-knowledge is always bad news.

Joseph Goldstein

Doubt masquerades as wisdom.

Marissa Schneiderman

This is not mine. This is not I. This is not myself.

Joseph Goldstein

If I'm suffering in any way, it just means there's something I'm not mindful of.

Dan Harris

The biggest challenge in personal growth is forgetting all of the brilliant shit you read or heard or whatever.

Dan Harris

In spiritual practice, time is not a factor.

Joseph Goldstein

The absolute essence of the practice, which the Buddha expressed again a million times, is liberation through non-clinging.

Joseph Goldstein

Traditional Meditation Retreat Schedule

Dan Harris
  1. Wake up around 5:30 AM.
  2. Begin the first meditation session around 6 AM, lasting 45 minutes to an hour.
  3. Have breakfast, followed by a short break and a 'yogi job' (e.g., cleaning up after meals or bathrooms).
  4. Engage in alternating blocks of 45 minutes of sitting meditation and 30 minutes of walking meditation until lunch.
  5. Have lunch, followed by another break and more yogi jobs.
  6. Continue with another large block of alternating sitting and walking meditation until 'tea' or 'supper' (a very light meal, or some choose not to eat).
  7. Participate in more sitting and walking meditation.
  8. Attend an evening Dharma talk, usually around 7 PM, lasting about an hour.
  9. Conclude with more sitting and walking meditation until approximately 10 PM, followed by bedtime or continued personal practice.

'Not Mine, Not I, Not Myself' Practice

Joseph Goldstein
  1. As different objects (sensations, sounds, sights, thoughts, emotions) arise during practice (e.g., walking meditation), drop the phrase 'not mine, not I, not myself' into your mind.
  2. Start with easier objects like leg sensations, sounds, or sights, where the selfless nature is readily apparent.
  3. Gradually apply the same reminder to more difficult objects, such as sensations in the head, and then thoughts and emotions, which people tend to identify with more.

Overcoming Aversion with 'Cowboy Dharma' / 'Gamer Dharma'

Joseph Goldstein (as described by Dan Harris)
  1. When bothersome thoughts or emotions (hindrances) arise repeatedly, engage in a playful 'shoot 'em up' game.
  2. Mindfully observe the hindrance (e.g., aversion, self-judgment) as it comes back.
  3. Smile at it and metaphorically 'shoot' it with a Nerf gun, depersonalizing it.
  4. Crucially, ensure this practice is not coming from a place of aversion itself, but rather from a place of clear seeing and lightheartedness.
three-month
Duration of Joseph Goldstein's annual solo retreat Joseph conducts an annual three-month solo retreat in his house on the grounds of the Insight Meditation Society.
2,600 years ago
Approximate age of initial Buddhist teachings The Buddha began his teaching initially about 2,600 years ago.
300 years
Duration Buddhist teachings were preserved through oral tradition For about 300 years, the Buddhist teachings were preserved through oral tradition before being written down.
72 hours
Approximate length of the Pali Canon on Audible The audio version of the Buddhist scriptures, the Pali Canon, is estimated to be around 72 hours long.
10-11 years
Marissa Schneiderman's years of meditation practice Marissa has been practicing meditation for approximately 10 to 11 years.
2013
Year Marissa Schneiderman went on her first retreat Marissa went on her first meditation retreat in 2013.
two months
Duration of aversion to meditation after a difficult retreat experience A listener named Patrick experienced aversion to meditating for two months after a traumatic loving-kindness retreat.
40 people
Number of people at Marissa Schneiderman's recent retreat The Insight Retreat Center Marissa attended in Santa Cruz, California, hosted only 40 people.
12 years
Years Insight Retreat Center has been functioning on a donation basis The Insight Retreat Center has been functioning for 12 years completely on donation and trust.