Jack Kornfield on How to Stay Sane in Insane Times

Dec 3, 2025 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Dan Harris speaks with Buddhist monk Jack Kornfield about navigating tumultuous times. They discuss finding opportunity in suffering, cultivating courage and joy, and practical strategies like loving-kindness and connecting with mystery to foster inner resilience.

At a Glance
21 Insights
1h 17m Duration
16 Topics
8 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Jack Kornfield and Navigating Tumultuous Times

Buddhist Diagnosis of Suffering and Its Transformation

The 'Great Turning' and Humanity's Interconnectedness

Addressing Cultural Anxiety and the 'Polycrisis'

Navigating Political Polarization with a Peaceful Heart

The Importance of Intention Over Outcome

The Power of Planting Seeds and Community Support

Gaining Inspiration from Avatars of Compassion

Zooming Out for a Bigger Picture and Inner Strength

Loving-Kindness (Metta) Practice as an Antidote to Fear

The Moral Obligation of Joy Amidst Suffering

Jack Kornfield's Personal Sources of Joy

Thanking Anxiety and Directing Attention Mindfully

Cultivating Wholesome Intentions and Beginner's Mind

The Power of Imagination and 'Imaginal Cells'

Connecting with Mystery: The 'You Are Consciousness' Practice

Buddha's Diagnosis of Suffering

The Buddha, referred to as the great physician, taught that life contains suffering, much of which is human-caused by greed, hatred, fear, and ignorance/delusion. He also taught that these causes can be transformed into generosity, love, and wisdom through practices of ethics, compassion, and mindful loving awareness.

The Great Turning

A concept by Joanna Macy, describing the current global crisis as a critical opportunity for humanity to realize its interconnectedness. It calls for a shift from an exploitative worldview to one of greater respect and consciousness in how we live and interact with the environment.

Propancha (Mental Proliferation)

A Buddhist term for the mind's tendency to spin out, creating elaborate mental 'movies' or narratives. This often leads to increased anxiety and worry, especially in response to challenging external circumstances.

Intention over Outcome

This principle, highlighted by Thomas Merton, suggests that one should focus on the inherent value, rightness, and truth of one's actions rather than being attached to specific results. Outcomes are often beyond our control, but the integrity of our efforts remains within our power.

Enlightened Self-Interest

A concept, implicitly supported by Buddhist teachings, that emphasizes the significant personal benefits derived from acting for the good of others. By contributing to the well-being of the world, one also cultivates their own inner peace and happiness.

Imaginal Cells

A biological metaphor drawn from the butterfly's metamorphosis, where a caterpillar dissolves into a mass of cells, and specific 'imaginal cells' then assemble to form a butterfly. This represents the opportunity for individuals to envision and build a new, better society from a state of societal deconstruction.

Make Weights

Small, precise weights used on a balance scale to achieve perfect equilibrium. This symbolizes how individual actions, even if seemingly minor, can significantly tip the scales and bring balance to larger, complex societal or personal situations.

Loving Awareness

A concept describing consciousness as vast, timeless, and inherently loving, serving as the 'loving witness' to all experiences. It suggests that one's true self is this awareness, which remains free and unchanged amidst the arising and passing of thoughts, emotions, and physical sensations.

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What is the Buddhist diagnosis of suffering in the world?

The Buddha, seen as a great physician, taught that suffering is inherent in life, much of it human-caused by greed, hatred, fear, and ignorance/delusion. However, these causes can be transformed into generosity, love, and wisdom through ethical and mindful practices.

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How can one navigate intense political polarization and societal conflict without fueling it?

It's possible to see destructive situations clearly and stand up for what one cares about with a peaceful heart, rather than out of fear, anger, or rage, which can exacerbate polarization. The focus should be on removing 'landmines from the heart' and acting from a place of deep caring.

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How can activists and individuals avoid burnout when facing immense suffering and injustice?

Activists can learn to manage inner suffering by acknowledging how they hold it in their body, releasing it, opening to a longer time picture, setting an inner intention, and practicing compassion for themselves and others, including those they oppose. This allows them to sustain their efforts without taking the 'fire into their body'.

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How can individuals find peace and strength when they cannot control external outcomes?

Individuals can ground themselves in timeless values like compassion, mutual respect, and integrity, which become a resting place and source of power. While outcomes are not controllable, one can 'plant seeds' of care and justice, trusting that these actions will eventually bear fruit.

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Why is cultivating joy important, especially during difficult times?

Joy is not a turning away from the world but a way of renewing oneself and aligning with the possibility of positive change. It's a 'moral obligation' that empowers individuals to act and contribute, as people in suffering (like those in refugee camps) prefer others to approach them with a spirit of possibility rather than depression.

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How can one manage overwhelming anxiety and mental proliferation (propancha)?

One can acknowledge anxiety by saying, 'Thank you for trying to protect me. I'm okay now,' and then consciously direct attention towards positive actions or things that sustain well-being, rather than continually picking up thoughts that sink the spirit.

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Why is intention important, and how can it be cultivated?

Intention is crucial because it guides actions and shapes one's life. Cultivating wholesome intentions involves taking a mindful pause, asking 'What is my highest/best intention?' (e.g., love, kindness), and allowing that intention to guide one's tone, actions, and decisions.

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How can one avoid self-judgment when their motivations aren't 'pure' or ideal?

It's important not to be idealistic, as no human being is perfect. Instead of judging oneself against an unattainable ideal, one should practice self-compassion, acknowledge being 'only human,' and recognize that it's never too late to start again with a beginner's mind and plant a good seed.

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How can imagination help in navigating difficult societal times?

Imagination allows individuals to vision a better future, like 'imaginal cells' assembling a butterfly from a caterpillar's dissolved state. It helps to see beyond current problems and recognize the potential for a society characterized by mutual respect, care for the vulnerable, and environmental stewardship, empowering individuals to be 'make weights' that tip the scale towards balance.

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What is the 'you are consciousness' practice, and how does it connect with mystery?

This practice involves recognizing that one's true self is not the aging body, transient emotions, or fleeting thoughts, but rather the timeless, vast, loving awareness or consciousness itself. Practices include observing the body's aging without feeling older, or imagining the mind as vast as the sky, holding all experiences within it, to cultivate a sense of inner freedom and peace.

1. Transform Suffering’s Inner Roots

Recognize that global suffering stems from human greed, hatred, fear, and ignorance, and actively practice ethics, generosity, forgiveness, compassion, and mindful loving awareness to transform these inner roots.

2. Regulate Anxiety, Act Effectively

Learn to regulate your inner state and reduce anxiety, not to ignore problems, but to enable more effective and responsive engagement with difficult situations.

3. Respond With A Peaceful Heart

When confronting destructive situations, stand up for what you care about with a peaceful heart, avoiding responses fueled by fear, anger, or rage that exacerbate polarization.

4. Ground Actions In Timeless Values

Focus on the value, rightness, and truth of your actions, grounding yourself in timeless values like compassion, mutual respect, and integrity, rather than depending on the hope of specific results.

5. Cultivate Highest Intention

In moments of conflict or decision, take a mindful pause and ask, “What is my highest intention?” allowing this deep intention to guide your tone, actions, and the compass of your heart towards love.

6. Practice Loving-Kindness Meditation

Engage in loving-kindness (metta) practice by sending well-wishes (“May you be well, safe, protected”) first to those you care about, then expanding to others, and finally to yourself, to soothe your heart and foster compassion.

7. Find Courage Through Love

Root yourself in love for the earth and one another, understanding that love is the ultimate power that provides courage and strength to stand up and care, rather than making you weak.

8. Cultivate Joy As Obligation

Actively cultivate joy and align yourself with the possibility of positive change, viewing joy as a moral obligation that renews your spirit and brings a sense of possibility to difficult situations.

9. Connect With Timeless Consciousness

Practice recognizing your true self as timeless awareness or consciousness, distinct from your changing body, emotions, and thoughts, which offers a profound sense of inner freedom and vastness.

10. Envision Wise Society

Envision and work towards a “wise society” built on mutual respect, care for the vulnerable, and environmental stewardship, seeing yourself as an “imaginal cell” contributing to this societal transformation.

11. Be A Hope Make Weight

Understand that your individual actions, no matter how small, can act as “make weights” that tip the balance towards positive change and bring things back into balance.

12. Limit News Consumption

Limit your news consumption to what is necessary to stay informed, then disengage and turn to activities that uplift you, to prevent being overwhelmed by fear and anxiety.

13. Don’t Pick Up The Boulder

Develop the meditative skill to observe your mind spinning out, thank your anxiety for trying to protect you, and then consciously choose not to “pick up” thoughts and worries that sink your spirit.

14. Practice Self-Compassion

When you fall short of ideals, hold yourself with compassion, acknowledging “only human,” and remember it is never too late to start again or plant a good seed.

15. Seek Wisdom Figures’ Backup

Create a physical or mental space filled with figures of wisdom and compassion from various traditions to serve as a source of backup and inspiration, reminding you that you work for something greater.

16. Connect With Nature For Joy

Regularly step out and connect with nature, observing the changes and beauty around you, as a simple and effective way to experience consistent hits of joy.

17. Find Strength In Adversity

Recognize that being “pushed on” by collective challenges can strengthen your roots and allow you to find a different kind of inner strength, much like plants growing stronger with intense music.

18. Emphasize Positive Human History

Choose to emphasize the magnificent acts of compassion, sacrifice, courage, and kindness throughout human history to gain energy for your own actions and contributions, rather than focusing solely on the worst.

19. Be Present To Win

Be present and alive to the moment, rather than lost in fears or thoughts, to respond from a place of deep presence and do things more beautifully and with freedom.

20. Support Community With Kindness

Support one another and your community through acts of care and kindness, recognizing that these small acts contribute to changing the world.

21. Illuminate Tasks With Intention

Before undertaking tasks, especially challenging ones, set an intention for your work to be illuminated by your highest purpose and guided by the spirit of wisdom.

There is suffering in life. Not that life is suffering, but life has suffering. And much of it is human caused.

Jack Kornfield

We have to remove the landmines from the heart.

Mahagosananda

Do not depend on the hope of results. You may have to face the fact that your work will be apparently worthless and achieve no result at all, if not perhaps at times bringing about its opposite. As you understand this, you start more and more to concentrate not on the results, but on the value, the rightness, and the truth of the work itself.

Thomas Merton (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

Despair is a failure of imagination.

Wade Davis (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

Perched on the muzzle of a cannon, a yellow butterfly is slowly opening and shutting its wings.

Amy Lowell (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

They've taken so much from me. Why should I let them destroy my happiness?

Dalai Lama (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

Joy is a moral obligation.

André Gide (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It's based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness.

Howard Zinn (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

Is that boulder heavy? And the monks say, of course it is. And he smiles and he says, not if you don't pick it up.

Ajahn Chah (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

My religion is kindness.

Dalai Lama (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

You must be present to win.

Las Vegas casino sign (quoted by Jack Kornfield)

Practice for Grounding and Equanimity in Crisis

Jack Kornfield
  1. Ground yourself.
  2. Practice equanimity by surrendering the need to control things and reflecting on the changing seasons, the rise and fall of empires, and the birth and death of humans.
  3. Go to a place of vast perspective.
  4. Engage in loving-kindness (metta) and compassion practice.
  5. Begin by well-wishing for the people closest to you (e.g., children, spouse, family members) using phrases like 'May you be well, may you be safe, may you be protected.'
  6. Expand this well-wishing beyond your immediate circle to people in your company or community.
  7. Bring the practice back to yourself, imagining your family and loved ones wishing you well.
  8. Extend well-wishing further to all beings.

Practice for Managing Anxiety and Sustaining Well-being

Jack Kornfield
  1. Observe your mind spinning out with anxiety.
  2. Acknowledge the anxiety by saying (internally or externally), 'Thank you for trying to protect me. I'm okay now.'
  3. Let the anxiety go, rather than continually picking up thoughts that sink your spirits.
  4. Ask yourself, 'What can I do that sustains well-being?' or 'What can I do to mend the fabric of this society where it's being torn?'
  5. Act on that positive impulse, even if it's a small gesture.

You Are Consciousness Practice (Mirror Method)

Jack Kornfield
  1. Stand in front of a mirror and look at yourself.
  2. Notice the physical signs of aging (e.g., wrinkles, drooping, changes in skin).
  3. Observe that despite the physical changes, you don't necessarily *feel* older.
  4. Realize that this feeling indicates that your true self is the awareness itself, which is outside of time and not limited by the aging body.

You Are Consciousness Practice (Vast Mind Method)

Jack Kornfield
  1. Sit quietly and close your eyes.
  2. As you get quiet, imagine that your mind is not limited to the size of your head, but that it is vast, like the sky.
  3. Notice all sounds (e.g., distant airplane, clanking radiator, wind in trees) happening within this vast space of your own mind, which is the space of awareness.
  4. Recognize that you are this space of awareness, the 'loving witness' of all phenomena that arise and pass.
80 years old
Age of Jack Kornfield and Trudy Goodman As of a couple of months prior to the recording.
54 years old
Dan Harris's age As stated by Dan Harris.
3
Number of villages in Rwanda to be lifted out of poverty Target for the #PodsFightPoverty campaign.
$1,000,000
Fundraising goal for Pods Fight Poverty Target to be raised before the end of the year.
Over 700 families
Number of families to be lifted out of poverty by fundraising goal Expected impact of reaching the $1 million fundraising goal.
96 years old
Age of Joanna Macy at death An elder who worked on the 'Great Turning' concept.
250,000
Number of new babies born daily Approximate number of new babies born on the planet each day.
Almost 3 years
Duration of the Siege of Leningrad During World War II.
27 years
Nelson Mandela's prison time Time spent in Robben Island prison.