Joseph Goldstein On: Karma, Rebirth, And Other Planes Of Existence
In this episode, meditation teacher Joseph Goldstein, co-founder of the Insight Meditation Society, discusses Buddhist cosmology, including karma, rebirth, other realms, and psychic powers. He explains why he's now comfortable sharing these esoteric concepts and encourages skeptics to adopt a 'willing suspension of disbelief' for deeper understanding.
Deep Dive Analysis
15 Topic Outline
Joseph Goldstein's New Openness to Esoteric Buddhist Concepts
Defining Buddhist Cosmology: Karma, Rebirth, Other Realms
Karma as the 'Light of the World' and Its Non-Deterministic Nature
Harnessing Karma: The Power of Kindness and Wholesome Actions
Karma's Manifestation Across Lifetimes and the Buddha's Enlightenment
The 'Willing Suspension of Disbelief' for Skeptics
Joseph's Journey to Openness: Verifiable Teachings and Deepama
Understanding Consciousness as an Immaterial and Impermanent Process
The Methodology and Nature of Psychic Powers (Siddhis)
Using Karma as a Guide for Future Actions
Deconstructing 'Free Will' and the Role of Conditioned Choice
Reconciling Karma with the Concept of Not-Self
The Two Levels of Reality: Conventional and Ultimate
Exploring Other Realms of Existence: Lower, Higher, and Brahma Realms
The Ultimate Goal: Awakening Beyond All Realms
7 Key Concepts
Buddhist Cosmology
A comprehensive map of the phenomenal world, encompassing internal experience, other planes of existence, rebirth, and karma. It provides a framework for understanding the full range of existence within Buddhist teachings.
Karma (Buddhist Context)
The principle that actions (karma, kama) bring about certain results, acting as a major conditioning factor for how our lives unfold. It is not a deterministic principle ruling every aspect of life, as other natural laws also play a role, and its results can manifest over multiple lifetimes.
Willing Suspension of Disbelief
An attitude, borrowed from the poet Coleridge, suggesting that skeptics should remain open to the potential validity of teachings outside their direct experience, rather than being attached to disbelief. It encourages holding an open mind until one truly knows, rather than outright rejection.
Immaterial Consciousness
The understanding that consciousness is not a physical phenomenon and cannot be located in space. It is also an impermanent phenomenon, arising and passing away in each moment, with each moment conditioning the next, potentially extending across lifetimes.
Conditioned vs. Determined
A distinction highlighting that while everything arises out of conditions, this does not mean everything is predetermined. The Buddha's teachings emphasize that conditions influence outcomes, allowing for agency and choice, rather than a fixed, unavoidable fate.
Two Levels of Reality
A core Buddhist concept distinguishing between conventional (or relative) reality, where the world appears solid and individuals exist as separate entities, and ultimate reality, where everything is an unfolding, impermanent process of rapidly changing phenomena without inherent solidity.
Jhanas (States of Deep Absorption)
Highly developed states of meditative concentration that bring profound happiness, joy, and fulfillment, described as being far superior to the pleasures of the senses. Cultivating these states can lead to rebirth in higher realms (Brahma realms).
10 Questions Answered
Buddhist cosmology is a comprehensive map of the phenomenal world, including internal experience, other planes of existence, rebirth, and karma, which are central and intertwined aspects of the Buddhist teachings.
As he's gotten older, Joseph feels less concerned with being cautious or curating the teachings for easy understanding, desiring to share the full scope of his understanding of Buddhist teachings before he dies.
No, while karma accounts for much of what happens, it is not the total picture; other causes like the laws of nature (physics, chemistry, biology) also contribute to events, preventing karma from being a fully deterministic principle.
By recognizing that wholesome mind states and actions, such as kindness and generosity, generally bring positive results, we can make conscious choices to cultivate these qualities, thereby influencing the trajectory of our lives for the better.
No, belief in these concepts is not necessary for awakening; however, adopting a 'willing suspension of disbelief' can be a wholesome attitude for skeptics, encouraging an open mind rather than outright rejection.
His openness grew from verifying much of the Buddha's teachings through his own practice, meeting teachers like Deepama who demonstrated extraordinary capacities, and experiencing consciousness as an immaterial phenomenon through deep meditation.
Consciousness, though immaterial, is impermanent, arising and passing away in each moment; in terms of continuation, the quality of the mind at the moment of death determines the quality of the rebirth consciousness, understood as a continuous process of change rather than a permanent entity.
The teachings emphasize that karma is a process of action and result, not something that happens to a 'who' or a solid self; the 'self' is understood as a conventional shorthand for an individual process of cause and effect, with actions bringing results to that unfolding process.
Beyond the human and animal realms, there are lower realms where suffering predominates and higher realms (deva realms) characterized by pleasure and happiness, as well as even higher Brahma realms conditioned by deep meditative concentration, all of which are impermanent.
The ultimate goal is awakening (Nibbana or Nirvana), which is liberation from clinging to any of these realms, as even the highest realms are impermanent and do not offer the lasting peace of enlightenment.
11 Actionable Insights
1. Understand Karma for Agency
Gain more agency in life by understanding the law of karma, recognizing how different actions bring about specific results, and using this knowledge to make informed choices.
2. Cultivate Wholesome Mind States
Actively cultivate wholesome mind states, such as kindness, as these generally lead to positive results and happiness in one’s life.
3. Practice Everyday Kindness
Make kindness a core value, consciously recognizing and manifesting it in daily interactions, speech, and actions, as this pragmatic approach yields very positive results.
4. Guide Future Actions with Karma
Utilize the understanding of karma not to look back and attribute blame, but to look forward, consciously planting ‘seeds’ of wholesome volitional actions that are understood to bring about good future results.
5. Condition Choices with Wisdom
When making decisions, strive to condition choices with wisdom and wholesome factors, as these lead to better outcomes and happiness for oneself and others, unlike choices based on anger, greed, hatred, or delusion.
6. Pair Intellectual and Experiential Learning
Deepen and augment meditation practice by complementing it with learning about Buddhism, integrating both the intellectual understanding and experiential aspects of the teachings.
7. Pause Before Outbursts
When feeling an outburst of temper, create a pause by counting to 10, allowing space between the intention to react and the action, which can prevent undesirable behavior.
8. Explore Meditation App
Download the ‘10% with Dan Harris’ app to access a library of guided meditations for stress, anxiety, sleep, focus, and self-compassion, along with weekly live Zoom community sessions and ad-free podcast episodes.
9. Support Insight Meditation Society
Consider donating to or attending retreats at the Insight Meditation Society (IMS) via dharma.org to deepen meditation practice and engage with Buddhist studies, if comfortably able to do so.
10. Attend Live Podcast Recording
Attend the live podcast recording in New York City on March 28th for an interview with Joseph Goldstein and Dr. Mark Epstein, with an option for a VIP guided meditation and Q&A.
11. Listen to Nibbana Episode
Listen to the previously released Nibbana/Nirvana episode (linked in the show notes) to further complement and deepen the understanding gained from this conversation.
8 Key Quotes
I think that as I get older, I'm less concerned with being cautious in sharing the teachings and trying to curate, okay, well, what'll be easily understood? And what can people relate to?
Joseph Goldstein
understanding the law of karma is like the light of the world.
The Buddha (as quoted by Joseph Goldstein)
karma is a very major determinant or conditioning factor for what arises, but it is not the only one.
Joseph Goldstein
kindness doesn't mean hallmark sentimentality, you know, so I'm not talking about that. I'm just talking about relating with basic goodwill and basic kindness in the way we speak, in our communications, in our actions.
Joseph Goldstein
the willing suspension of disbelief.
Coleridge (as quoted by Joseph Goldstein)
consciousness is an immaterial phenomena, right? It's not a physical phenomena...
Joseph Goldstein
the real miracle, or the most important miracle, is in teaching the Dharma.
The Buddha (as quoted by Joseph Goldstein)
the choices we make are conditioned by a lot of different things... choices conditioned by wisdom tend to bring much better results than choices conditioned by anger or by greed or by hatred or by delusion.
Joseph Goldstein