Josh Groban, Multi-Platinum Recording Artist, Actor (Bonus!)
This episode features multi-platinum recording artist and actor Josh Groban, nominated for a Tony, discussing his anxiety and career pressures. Dan Harris and meditation teacher Jeff Warren introduce Groban to meditation, demonstrating core mindfulness skills and exploring its benefits for focus, creativity, and managing stress.
Deep Dive Analysis
12 Topic Outline
Introduction to Josh Groban and his Tony Nomination
Josh Groban's Past Meditation Attempts and Skepticism
Is Meditation for Everyone? Different Approaches
Josh Groban's Personal Battle with Anxiety and Career Pressure
Anxiety as a Fuel vs. Useless Rumination
Two Styles of Meditation: Concentration vs. Mindfulness
Demystifying Meditation: It Can Be Done Anywhere
Guided Mindfulness Meditation Session
Josh Groban's Reflections on the Meditation Experience
The Importance of Friendliness and Non-Judgment in Practice
Meditation as a Tool for Creativity and Songwriting
Developing a Customized Meditation for Creative Work
5 Key Concepts
Concentration Meditation
This style of meditation is about committing to a specific direction of attention, like focusing on a performance or an art practice, to create absorbed flow states that are rewarding and leave you feeling good.
Mindfulness Meditation
This practice involves 'panning back the camera' of your experience to gain perspective on ruminative patterns. It helps develop the flexibility to switch between a forward-driving, edgy mode and a more open, perspective-taking mode, leading to a cleaner signal of your personality.
Equanimity (in meditation)
Equanimity is a quality of pervasive easygoingness or a lack of uptightness during meditation. It involves having a mature, accepting stance towards your experience, not fighting with thoughts or distractions, and allowing things to be as they are.
Clarity (in meditation)
Clarity is the skill of making discernments within your meditation experience. As you commit to paying attention to a sensation, its resolution increases, and you can feel its details more fully, getting a cleaner signal of what's happening.
Friendliness (in meditation)
This is an attitude of appreciation and good nature towards your meditation practice. Instead of getting mad when your mind wanders, you feel good about noticing it, which trains your subconscious to return to focus more quickly and makes the practice more effective and pleasurable.
6 Questions Answered
Yes, some form of practice is for everyone to become more fully present and connected, though the specific type of meditation may need to be adapted to different nervous systems and individual needs.
An activity is meditation if you are truly paying attention to the present experience without judgment; if you are running while planning arguments or ruminating, it is not meditation.
It is normal for the mind to wander; the practice is to gently notice that it has wandered and kindly bring your attention back to your chosen focus, such as the breath, without self-criticism.
Getting frustrated actually trains your subconscious to avoid noticing when your mind has wandered, which can lead to more frequent wandering rather than less, making the practice less effective.
Yes, by getting still and creating quiet space, meditation allows creativity to emerge more readily, as great ideas often come from silence rather than from a mind crowded with anxious or noisy thoughts.
Yes, having a guide can be very helpful for beginners to understand the process, what to focus on, and how to handle distractions, which can prevent frustration and make the initial experience more productive.
18 Actionable Insights
1. Cultivate Quiet for Creativity
Create still, quiet space in your mind to allow creativity to emerge, as crowding your head with anxious thoughts can block this process.
2. Use Meditation for Anxiety
Engage in meditation as a tool to center your mind and gain a wider perspective on life, especially when anxiety causes narrow-focused thinking, and to distinguish between useless rumination and constructive anguish.
3. Embrace Meditation as Practice
Understand that meditation is a continuous practice of getting lost and starting again, not about achieving a special thought-free state, and this repetitive effort builds mental resilience.
4. Reward Noticing Wandering
When you notice your mind has wandered during meditation, feel good about having noticed it rather than getting frustrated, as this positive reinforcement trains your subconscious to return to focus more quickly.
5. Notice Impulses, Don’t React
Use meditation to flex the muscle of noticing impulses (like anger or desire to scream) without immediately acting on them, allowing you to choose your response in daily life.
6. Verbalize Nightly Gratitude
Verbalize the things you are grateful for each night to combat forgetfulness and myopic thinking, helping you see the bigger picture.
7. “Sit in the Quiet” Pre-Creativity
Implement a practice called “sit in the quiet” before engaging in creative work (like composing or writing) to center yourself and prepare the ground for creative flow.
8. Daily Short Meditation Practice
Dedicate just a few minutes every day to meditation to build attentional qualities like concentration, clarity, equanimity, and friendliness, which will spill out into your daily life over time.
9. Utilize a Meditation Guide
For beginners, using a guide for meditation can be very helpful to overcome frustration and understand the process, rather than attempting it alone and feeling lost.
10. Pan Back for Perspective
Practice mindfulness meditation to gain perspective on your experiences and recognize when you are caught in ruminative patterns, developing flexibility to shift between focused and open modes.
11. Meditate Anywhere, Anytime
Practice meditation by paying attention to whatever is happening right now, as it can be done in any location or situation, not just in a formal setting.
12. Conscious Attention in Activities
Ensure that activities you consider meditative (like running or flying) truly involve paying attention to the present experience, rather than just being a distraction or a space for rumination.
13. Adopt Alert, Soft Posture
Sit with a stretched-up, straight spine on the inhale to be alert, and on the exhale, soften your eyes, jaw, and cheeks, breathing out tension to settle into the meditation.
14. Select a Focus Sensation
Choose a specific body sensation, like your breath at the belly or nostrils, or warmth in your hands, and commit to focusing your attention on it during meditation.
15. Gently Return Wandering Mind
When your mind inevitably wanders during meditation, gently and kindly bring your attention back to your chosen sensation without self-judgment.
16. Deepen Sensory Clarity
Actively seek to feel your chosen sensation more fully and clearly, noticing its subtle details, edges, and qualities to increase the resolution of your perception.
17. Embrace Equanimity, Be Easygoing
Cultivate an easygoing and accepting attitude towards distractions, thoughts, and a wandering mind during meditation, recognizing them as normal and returning to your focus without self-judgment.
18. Cultivate Friendly Appreciation
Bring an attitude of appreciation and friendliness to your meditation object, finding enjoyment in the simple act of focusing on your breath or chosen sensation.
7 Key Quotes
I've tried it, but it makes me want to throw a lamp across the room.
Josh Groban
I think practice is for everyone, meaning some way, some commitment in your life around coming more fully into your experience, being closer to the people around you, something you're deliberately doing that will make those things happen.
Jeff Warren
Anxiety and expectation have played a huge part in my existence.
Josh Groban
But where meditation is incredibly helpful is that it helps you draw the line between useless rumination and what I call constructive anguish.
Dan Harris
The whole game is getting lost and starting again. That is meditation.
Dan Harris
Creativity doesn't just emerge from the associative connections in the noise. It actually emerges from the quiet.
Jeff Warren
It's in the silence. It's in the place where you're not trying to micromanage your own creativity that things start to happen.
Josh Groban
1 Protocols
Basic Mindfulness Meditation (Shinzen Young's Approach)
Jeff Warren- Close your eyes and take a few deep breaths, stretching up the spine on the inhale for alertness and settling on the exhale, softening the eyes, jaw, and cheeks to release tension.
- Choose a sensation to concentrate on, such as the feeling of breathing at the belly or nostrils, warmth in the hands, or the feeling of your feet on the ground, and commit to holding your attention there.
- When your mind inevitably wanders, gently and friendly notice that it has drifted and bring your attention back to the chosen sensation, feeling its specific qualities like tickling, rise, softness, or continuity.
- Cultivate clarity by observing how the chosen sensation opens itself more fully over time, allowing you to discern finer details and increase the resolution of your experience.
- Maintain equanimity by adopting an easygoing, non-uptight attitude; accept that thoughts, distractions, and sounds will be present without fighting them, holding a mature and poised stance.
- Practice friendliness and appreciation by enjoying the sensation and, when your mind wanders, feel good about noticing it, as this positive reinforcement trains your subconscious to return to focus more quickly.
- Understand that these four qualities (concentration, clarity, equanimity, friendliness) are like muscle groups that build with each meditation session and will eventually spill over into your daily life.
- When you feel ready, open your eyes and bring your attention back into the room.