Love In War | Esther Perel

Oct 28, 2022 Episode Page ↗
Overview

This episode features psychotherapist Esther Perel, New York Times bestselling author and podcast host, leading a session with a Ukrainian couple, Alyona and Andrew, separated by war. They navigate existential stress, differing needs, and the challenge of maintaining intimacy and hope amidst profound uncertainty and danger.

At a Glance
10 Insights
55m 58s Duration
18 Topics
4 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Esther Perel's 'Love and War' Series

The Ukrainian Couple's Separation and Wartime Reality

Andrew's Role as Protector and Suppressed Emotions

Alyona's Loneliness and Need for Intimacy as a Refugee

The Conflict Between Individual Needs and Collective Duty

Andrew's Potential Military Service and Alyona's Fears

Andrew's Current Essential Work in Logistics

The Couple's Different Vantage Points and Understandings

Andrew's Internal Struggle with Vulnerability and Pain

Alyona's Adaptive Numbness and Jealousy of Other Couples

The Unspoken Disagreement on Andrew's Wartime Choices

Alyona's Deep-Seated Fears of Losing Andrew

Alyona's Internal Debate on Returning to Ukraine

The Challenge of Settling and Creating a New Life Abroad

Andrew's Hope for Future Family Reunion and Vacation

Navigating Impossible Binaries and Temporary Visions

Strategies for Maintaining Joy and Connection Amidst Tragedy

Esther Perel's Personal Connection to War Trauma

Faustian Bargain (in war context)

A choice where both options involve significant suffering or loss, such as deciding between leaving a war-torn country for safety or staying to fulfill a perceived duty. This concept highlights the impossible dilemmas faced by individuals in conflict zones.

Adaptive Numbness

An unconscious, protective emotional response to overwhelming stress or trauma, where a person becomes desensitized to pain. This is presented as a coping mechanism that, while potentially problematic long-term, can be adaptive in the immediate moment of crisis.

Vision for the Moment

A mental model for coping with prolonged uncertainty, particularly in wartime, where individuals shift from long-term life planning to focusing on immediate, smaller, and temporary goals. This helps avoid feeling stuck or victimized when grand future plans are impossible.

Hardware for Facing Hardships

A term referring to long-standing human practices and traditions—including music, prayer, singing, poetry, and art—that serve as fundamental tools to counter existential stress, maintain connection, hope, and joy, and foster resilience in the face of tragedy.

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How does war impact the intimate lives of couples?

War drastically changes lifestyle, dynamics, and intimate life, often leading to physical separation, emotional distance, and a re-evaluation of personal needs versus collective duty.

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How do men often perceive their role in wartime, especially when separated from family?

Men often feel a strong duty to be strong, protect their family and country, and suppress their own fears and emotions to fulfill this role, sometimes at the expense of expressing vulnerability or intimacy.

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Is it acceptable to desire 'the little jewels of life' like compliments and intimacy during acute stress or war?

Yes, while it may feel inappropriate or selfish, maintaining connection, joy, and intimacy is crucial for emotional well-being and can provide strength to face hardships, even if it feels counterintuitive.

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What is the emotional experience of a parent who stays in a war zone versus one who leaves?

Both experiences are profoundly difficult. The one who stays often focuses on duty, collective good, and daily survival amidst constant threat, while the one who leaves grapples with guilt, loneliness, and the challenge of rebuilding a temporary life while longing for reunion and safety.

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How can separated couples maintain connection and intimacy during prolonged crisis?

Beyond practical daily check-ins, couples need dedicated one-on-one time for emotional intimacy. They can also engage in 'fantasy island' activities like listening to music, dancing, or watching movies together without discussing difficult topics, using imagination to foster connection.

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How does one cope with the inability to settle or plan for the future during prolonged uncertainty like war?

Instead of trying to maintain a 'big vision' for life, it's more adaptive to embrace a 'vision for the moment' or temporary visions. This involves being open to different trajectories, finding ways to be helpful in the current situation, and giving oneself permission to create a life where one is, even if it's not the ultimate desired outcome.

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What are some strategies for maintaining hope and joy when facing existential stress and tragedy?

Beyond mindfulness and breathing, strategies include humor, playfulness, curiosity, gratitude, and engaging in creative activities like music, prayer, singing, poetry, and art. These practices serve as 'hardware' for facing hardships and staying connected to possibility.

1. Cultivate Joy & Creative Practices

Actively engage in humor, playfulness, curiosity, and joy-intensifying strategies like experiencing awe, practicing gratitude, and creating through music, prayer, singing, poetry, or art, as these are essential for facing hardships.

2. Grant Self Permission for Joy

Give yourself explicit permission to connect with hope, joy, and celebration, recognizing these emotions are not frivolous but fundamental components that enable you to cope with and face difficult realities.

3. Create Non-Verbal Connection Rituals

During difficult separations, establish weekly rituals that foster connection beyond conversation, such as listening to music together, watching a movie, or dancing simultaneously in separate locations, to maintain hope, energy, and intimacy.

4. Embrace Small, Temporary Visions

In times of extreme uncertainty, shift from long-term life visions to smaller, temporary visions for the moment, as this adaptive approach can help you navigate immediate challenges and avoid feeling stuck.

5. Acknowledge Internal Conflicts

Recognize and accept that you can hold conflicting feelings simultaneously, such as fear for a loved one’s safety while also respecting and admiring their difficult choices, rather than trying to force alignment.

6. Allow Yourself to Feel Vulnerability

Permit yourself to connect with deep feelings of love, missing, and longing for your partner, even if it feels scary or makes you feel less strong, as this connection is vital for your own emotional well-being and relationship.

7. Maintain Daily Family & Couple Meetings

Establish a routine of daily online meetings, alternating between family sessions with children and one-on-one time with your partner, to maintain connection and intimacy during separation.

8. Share Personal Struggles with Children

Openly share your own difficult days or fears with your children, as this can create a safe space for them to express their struggles and prevent them from feeling isolated.

9. Live Day-by-Day with Structure

Focus on living one day at a time, creating a daily schedule of tasks to complete, and ending the day with family conversations to share experiences and find moments of peace and humor.

10. Acknowledge Partner’s Emotional Needs

Recognize and fulfill your partner’s specific emotional needs, such as the need for compliments or words of affirmation, even during difficult times, as these are crucial for their well-being and connection.

When we tell the stories of war, we often leave out what happens to couples, to their dynamics, to their intimate life.

Esther Perel

I'm afraid to ask myself this question, because there is so much pain there that I don't even want to look there.

Andrew

I need just to be loved. I want to be loved. I want to hear compliments. I want to be the same woman for him.

Alyona

My first reaction was, what are you talking about? About compliment? We have war.

Andrew

If you allow yourself to connect with that part of you, it will increase the fears, and it will make you less strong.

Esther Perel

Logistics is doable. Love is painful.

Esther Perel

Freedom comes through our imagination especially when you can't feel free in reality.

Esther Perel

Your mind and your body are the two means, vehicles through which you can stay connected with the world of possibility in a reality in which it feels that every possibility could be life and death.

Esther Perel

Those things that are irreverent, that seem to be taboo to talk about when people are in the midst of suffering. And yet it is humor and playfulness and curiosity and joy and all the strategies that intensify joy... Those are very precise strategies that are beyond mindfulness and beyond breathing.

Esther Perel

Maintaining Connection During Forced Separation

Alyona & Andrew (initial practices), Esther Perel (additional suggestions)
  1. Have everyday online meetings as a family.
  2. Dedicate specific days or times for one-on-one online meetings to foster emotional intimacy.
  3. (Suggested by Esther Perel) Engage in 'fantasy island' activities like listening to music, dancing, or watching a movie together, without discussing difficult war-related subjects, to connect on a different, joyful level.
22 years
Duration of marriage Alyona and Andrew's marriage.
five times per day
Frequency of air alerts Andrew's experience in Ukraine.
five months
Duration of separation Alyona and Andrew's separation due to the war, 'getting to the sixth month now.'
18 years old
Age of eldest son Andrew's son in Ukraine, waiting to be drafted.
16 years old
Age of youngest son Alyona's son in Western Europe.
three children
Minimum children for men to legally leave Ukraine Ukrainian law for men to legally leave the country during wartime.
five years
Time taken for Alyona to recover from anxiety/depression Before the war, she had recovered through various techniques.