Manoush Zomorodi, Host of 'Note to Self' Podcast
Dan Harris interviews Manoush Zomorodi, host of "Note to Self" and author of "Bored and Brilliant," about our relationship with technology. They discuss how disconnecting from devices and embracing boredom can unlock creativity, problem-solving, and a healthier mindset.
Deep Dive Analysis
13 Topic Outline
Introduction to Manoush Zomorodi and Her Work
The Default Mode Network and Benefits of Boredom
Origin Story of the 'Note to Self' Podcast
Manoush's Personal Crisis of Creativity and Boredom
The 'Bored and Brilliant' Experiment and Its Outcomes
Societal Shift in Relationship with Technology
Practical Tech Hygiene Best Practices
Photography, Memory, and Conscious Tech Choices
Understanding Addictive App Design: Snapchat Streaks
The Need for Ethical Tech Standards and Accountability
Redefining Productivity: Valuing Time Over Responsiveness
Boredom, Mind Wandering, and Mindfulness: A 'Salt and Pepper' Approach
The Future of Mind Wandering as a Valued Skill
6 Key Concepts
Default Mode Network
This is a network in your brain that ignites when you allow yourself to space out, such as when folding laundry or walking. It's where your most original thinking, creative problem solving, autobiographical planning, and future goal setting occur.
Autobiographical Planning
A process that happens in the default mode network, where you look back at your life, take note of the highs and lows, and build your personal narrative.
Perspective Bias
A psychological process, also occurring in the default mode network, where you look into the future, set new goals, and figure out the steps to achieve them.
Positive, Constructive Mind Wandering
This refers to the beneficial aspects of mind wandering, such as creativity and bigger problem solving, which are distinct from unproductive rumination and cannot happen when constantly distracted by technology.
Attention Economy
This concept describes how tech companies generate revenue based on the amount of attention and time they capture from users, influencing their design choices to maximize engagement and screen time.
Snapchat Streaks
A design feature on Snapchat that encourages users to send selfies to each other daily to maintain a 'streak,' which signifies friendship strength, earns points, and serves as a metric by which the company's stock price is valued.
11 Questions Answered
When you allow yourself to space out, you ignite a network in your brain called the default mode, which is where original thinking, creative problem solving, autobiographical planning, and future goal setting occur.
In meditation, the goal is often a 'not thinking thing,' whereas with boredom, you're allowing your mind to wander and watching where it goes, which can lead to both dark places and positive, constructive thinking.
The podcast aims to guide listeners through the transformation of social structures by technology, helping them understand this accelerating world and use devices as tools rather than taskmasters.
If we never get bored, we miss out on crucial mental processes like creative problem solving, building personal narratives, and setting future goals, which are essential for original thinking.
Essential practices include turning off notifications for apps, keeping your phone out of your pocket or bag in transit, and being aware of how often you check your phone.
No, there isn't a one-size-fits-all approach; the 'right amount' of tech use is as personal as one's home screen and depends on individual demographics, age, and lifestyle.
Research suggests that constantly taking photos can lead to outsourcing your memory to your phone, meaning your actual recollection of the moment may be diminished or absent.
Tech companies design features like Snapchat streaks, which are usage metrics that encourage consistent daily engagement to boost their stock price and valuation, effectively turning user habits into a commodity.
The conversation is starting at various levels of society, from Capitol Hill questioning fake news and monopolies to a small but vocal movement in Silicon Valley advocating for ethical design and moral conversations in computer science.
We can start by valuing time more than responsiveness, setting personal boundaries like an 'out of office' for an hour each day, and resetting expectations for immediate availability.
They are like 'salt and pepper'; both are beneficial. Mindfulness helps you stay in the moment and notice when mind wandering becomes negative, while constructive mind wandering allows for creativity, problem-solving, and 'time travel' through memories and future visualization.
17 Actionable Insights
1. Cultivate Boredom for Creativity
Intentionally allow yourself to space out during mundane activities like folding laundry or walking to work, as this activates the brain’s default mode network, fostering original thinking, creative problem-solving, and autobiographical planning for future goals.
2. Measure Phone Usage Baseline
Download an app to track your daily phone usage and pickup frequency to establish a baseline, as this data is crucial for understanding your current habits and determining if you want to make changes for a healthier relationship with technology.
3. Disable All Notifications
Turn off all notifications on your phone, as constant pings from apps are not a requirement for modern living and contribute to an unhealthy relationship with technology.
4. Use Tech as a Tool
Understand that technology is designed to distract you and influence your behavior; actively work to re-center yourself and use devices as tools, not taskmasters, to maintain focus on what’s truly important.
5. Personalize Your Tech Hygiene
Create a tech hygiene strategy tailored specifically to your personal needs and lifestyle, understanding that the ‘right amount’ of tech use varies greatly from person to person.
6. Learn App Design Intent
Educate yourself on how apps are designed to create habits and drive engagement (e.g., Snapchat streaks for consistent check-ins), which empowers you to make conscious decisions about your usage rather than being manipulated.
7. Delete Compulsive Apps
Identify and remove the app that triggers the most compulsive checking or ’twitchy thumb’ from your phone to foster a calmer, more relaxed, and contemplative daily life.
8. Evaluate Photo-Taking Impulse
Before taking a photo, pause and ask if it’s truly necessary or if you’re outsourcing your memory, as constant capturing can reduce your actual recollection and presence in the moment.
9. Schedule Daily “Out of Office”
Set a daily ‘out of office’ period for one hour, informing others of your unavailability and stating when you will return, to reset expectations about constant responsiveness and prioritize your time.
10. Mindfully Redirect Mind Wandering
When your mind wanders into unproductive or negative rumination, consciously acknowledge it and then intentionally redirect your thoughts towards more constructive and positive areas, practicing ‘mindful mind wandering’.
11. Prioritize Time Over Responsiveness
Shift your mindset and behavior to prioritize how you want to use your time rather than feeling compelled to be constantly responsive, fostering a culture where time is valued over immediate communication.
12. Notice Reflexive Phone Checks
Pay attention to unconscious phone checking, like pulling it out every time you enter or exit an elevator, to identify when you’re acting purely out of habit rather than genuine need.
13. Pocket Phone During Transit
Keep your phone in your pocket or bag while in transit or moving around, even short distances, to consciously break the habit of constant checking and allow for more present moments.
14. Schedule Meditation Practice
Integrate meditation into your daily schedule, even if it feels unconventional, as it can be a highly effective tool for managing anxiety, depression, and panic, based on personal experience and research.
15. Run Without Audio
Engage in physical activity like running or walking without any audio stimulation, such as music or podcasts, to create space for quiet thought and observation.
16. Mindfully Use Games for Coping
In specific high-anxiety situations, use a game on your phone as a deliberate coping mechanism to divert attention from irrational fears, ensuring it’s a conscious choice for that moment rather than an unhealthy habit.
17. Recognize Constant Phone Use
Become aware of how often you fill small gaps in your day (e.g., waiting in line, walking) with phone use, and recognize if this constant stimulation prevents moments of boredom that could lead to deeper thought.
9 Key Quotes
In the default mode, that's actually where you do your most original thinking. You do creative problem solving. You also do something called autobiographical planning.
Manoush Zomorodi
We use our devices as tools rather than taskmasters.
Manoush Zomorodi
What actually happens in our brain when we get bored? Or I guess more importantly, what could be happening to us if we never get bored? Like what would happen if we got rid of this human state entirely? Cause that's what it seems like we're doing.
Manoush Zomorodi
The more fatigued you are, the more likely you are to check Facebook.
Manoush Zomorodi
I don't want to use the word crisis cause I don't like to be alarmist. I like to be very positive, but what a, what a juncture we are at.
Manoush Zomorodi
We've started to confuse productivity with responsiveness.
Manoush Zomorodi
Twitter has this weird ability to make the small things seem important. And the important things seem very trivial.
Manoush Zomorodi
Mindfulness and mind wandering, which is what I'm talking about, are like kind of salt and pepper, right? Like things taste best when you are able to have a little bit of both.
Manoush Zomorodi
Your Ted talk is basically telling people that they need to think. I was like, yep. And she's like, and you're finding that people need to hear this. I was like, yes, that is where we are right now.
Manoush Zomorodi
2 Protocols
'Bored and Brilliant' Experiment
Manoush Zomorodi- Receive a mini-podcast each morning explaining technology design and neuroscience.
- Receive a corresponding newsletter outlining a daily behavior tweak or challenge.
- Use apps to measure actual time spent on the phone and the number of times the phone is picked up.
- Try specific challenges, such as keeping the phone in a pocket/bag during transit, removing a 'twitchy thumb' app, or going a day without taking photos.
Personalizing Tech Use for Self-Regulation
Manoush Zomorodi- Establish a baseline by measuring your actual phone usage (time on phone, number of pickups).
- Turn off all notifications for apps.
- Keep your phone out of your pocket or bag while in transit or during small breaks.
- Identify and remove specific apps that trigger reflexive checking or addictive behavior.
- Consciously decide whether to take a photo, considering if it's truly necessary or if it's outsourcing your memory.
- Set an 'out of office' email response for a designated hour each day, communicating unavailability and resetting expectations for responsiveness.