Mary Karr, Best-Selling Poet and Master Memoirist

Feb 1, 2017 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Mary Karr, acclaimed memoirist and poet, discusses her journey from agnosticism and alcoholism to meditation and Roman Catholicism. She shares how prayer and meditation helped her overcome depression and anxiety, and offers practical advice on spiritual practice and writing.

At a Glance
17 Insights
1h 1m Duration
14 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Mary Karr's Path to Meditation and Sobriety

Childhood Trauma and the Onset of Depression

The Role of Spiritual Practice in Recovery

Early Experiences with Rote Prayer and Centering Meditation

The Emergence of Quiet and a 'Noticer Self'

Developing a Sense of Higher Power and Serendipity

The Journey to Roman Catholicism

Finding Faith Through Community and Suffering

Addressing Skepticism About Core Christian Beliefs

Mary Karr's Daily Meditation and Prayer Practice

The Transformative Power of Group Meditation

Distinguishing Between Pleasure and Joy

Advice for Writing a Memoir Sequel

Future Literary Projects

Centering Meditation

A non-religious form of meditation, often involving counting breaths (e.g., one to ten) or simply following the breath, aimed at achieving mental quiet and inner peace. Mary Karr started with this practice while newly sober in a mental institution.

Noticer Self

A concept developed by Mary Karr to describe an internal observer that is distinct from the fearful or anxious mind. This 'sane self' or 'sober self' allows for decision-making based on quietness rather than fear, and she eventually began to identify it as God.

Informed Conscience

A Roman Catholic concept, particularly emphasized in Vatican II, which suggests that if an individual's conscience, guided by the Holy Spirit, moves them to oppose church doctrine in a specific moment, they may follow their conscience. It acts as a 'loophole' for personal moral decision-making.

Consolation and Desolation

Terms from Christian spiritual practice (specifically Ignatian spirituality) describing periods of spiritual comfort, peace, and closeness to God (consolation) versus periods of spiritual dryness, struggle, and distance from God (desolation). Both are considered part of the spiritual journey.

Joy vs. Pleasure/Excitement

Joy is defined as an emotion whose focus exists outside the self, stemming from delight in something external rather than the satisfaction of an inner craving. Unlike pleasure or excitement, joy often involves others or a selfless focus, as described by Mary Karr and Thomas Merton.

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How did Mary Karr begin her meditation practice?

Mary Karr started meditating 26-27 years ago while nine months sober in a mental institution, beginning with centering meditation where she counted her breaths from one to ten.

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What led Mary Karr to seek spiritual practices?

After quitting alcohol, Mary Karr experienced profound depression and suicidal ideation, leading mental health professionals and others to suggest developing a spiritual practice, focusing on service to others, and finding a sense of a higher power.

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How did Mary Karr, an agnostic, begin to pray?

She began praying completely by rote, reciting the Prayer of St. Francis and daily prayers to stay sober, initially viewing it as a form of biofeedback or positive affirmation without any theological belief.

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What was Mary Karr's initial experience with meditation like?

Her mind was extremely noisy, like being 'locked up with the enemy,' filled with resentments, gripes, and terror, making it very difficult to find quiet.

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How did Mary Karr transition from skepticism to believing in a higher power?

She began to make decisions based on moments of quietness, developing a 'noticer self' that was distinct from her fearful mind, which she gradually identified as God as her life improved by acting less out of fear.

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What drew Mary Karr to Roman Catholicism?

She was moved by the faith of the people in a Catholic church, particularly their public 'intentions' (prayers for hopes and fears), and appreciated the 'carnal' aspect of Catholicism with its focus on suffering and the body of Christ.

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Does Mary Karr still meditate, and what is her practice?

Yes, she meditates daily, starting with 20-30 minutes of centering prayer, followed by an 'examine of conscience' where she reviews her day for moments of God's presence and moments of 'sin' (turning away from God), and concludes with other prayers at night.

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What are the benefits of meditation, according to Mary Karr?

Beyond spiritual healing, meditation is scientifically proven to improve mood, boost the immune system, reduce stress, lower blood pressure, and enhance cognitive functions like intelligence, speed, and humor.

1. Embrace Meditation & Prayer

Begin a practice of non-religious centering meditation (e.g., counting breaths 1-10) and rote prayer, even without theological belief, as a foundational step for mental well-being and sobriety, especially when previous approaches have failed.

2. Cultivate a ‘Noticer Self’

Develop an inner ’noticer self’ to observe your thoughts and emotions, particularly fear, anger, or loss of control, without identifying with them. This allows for a healthier response to challenging situations rather than being consumed by them.

3. Make Decisions from Quietness

When faced with decisions, especially if your mind is noisy or fearful, postpone the decision until a sense of quietness emerges. Acting from this calm state, rather than fear, can lead to better outcomes and improve your life.

4. Meditate for Proven Benefits

Engage in meditation practice regardless of your spiritual beliefs, as scientific evidence shows it improves mood, immune system, stress levels, blood pressure, and cognitive function. It works whether you attribute the clearing to spiritual healing or psychological processes.

5. Don’t Attach to Meditation Outcomes

Approach meditation without attachment to how your practice ‘should’ be, understanding that healing or clearing can occur even when you don’t perceive immediate clarity or success. It’s a gradual process, like sediment clearing or a boil draining.

6. Address Self-Criticism Softly

When self-correcting or criticizing yourself, avoid aggression, as it increases mental noise and attachment to performance. Instead, make soft mental notes (e.g., ‘judging,’ ‘anger’) to detach from the critical process.

7. Practice Daily Gratitude

Create a daily gratitude list, going through the alphabet to identify things you are thankful for, even if initially done by rote. This practice helps shift your perspective and recognize existing blessings.

8. Seek Community for Practice

Actively engage with a community of like-minded individuals who share a commitment to spiritual practice. Discussing experiences and challenges with others provides significant support and insight, helping you navigate potential ‘cul-de-sacs’ in your journey.

9. Adopt a Daily Spiritual Practice

Implement a daily routine that includes 20-30 minutes of morning centering prayer (following your breath), an ‘Examine of Conscience’ to savor positive moments and seek forgiveness for negative ones from the past 24 hours, and evening prayers for others who are sick or struggling.

10. Use ‘Not Wanting’ Mantra

During meditation, occasionally introduce the mantra or saying ’not wanting’ to reveal and observe subtle desires for your current experience to be different. This technique helps to disarm attachments and foster acceptance.

11. Pray for Specific Wants

Instead of only praying to ‘get through the day,’ articulate specific desires or needs in your prayers. This focused intention can lead to unexpected positive outcomes, as experienced by praying for increased income.

12. Use Rote Prayer as Affirmation

If you are skeptical, begin prayer by simply repeating positive sentences or affirmations by rote, without needing to believe in a higher power. This practice can still cultivate a more peaceful mindset and positive outlook.

13. Start Writing to Generate Content

Begin any writing project by simply ‘vomiting up whatever you got’ onto the page, without overthinking. Nothing can be shaped or refined until initial content has been generated and put down.

14. Expect Extensive Editing

Be prepared to discard a significant amount of ‘finished pages’ during the writing and editing process, as this is a normal part of refining a manuscript. For example, 1,200 finished pages were discarded for one memoir.

15. Write Memoir Sequel Context

When writing a memoir sequel, dedicate 3-5 pages to summarize necessary background information from previous books. This allows new readers to understand the narrative without having read the earlier works, making the sequel standalone.

16. Find Memoir’s Organizing Principle

Identify an ‘inner enemy’ or central conflict within yourself to serve as the organizing principle for your memoir. Structure the narrative around this struggle to give your book a cohesive and compelling framework.

17. Promote Your Podcast

If you host a podcast, encourage listeners to subscribe, rate the show, and tell friends about it. This helps grow the audience and reach more people.

Joy it is, which I've never known before, only pleasure or excitement. Joy is a different thing because its focus exists outside the self. Delight in something external, not satisfaction of some inner craving.

Mary Karr

If you don't know the difference between pleasure and joy, you haven't begun to live.

Thomas Merton (quoted by Mary Karr)

It is easier for me to believe that Jesus rose from the dead than it is to believe that the meek will inherit the earth.

Mary Karr

Whether you believe God is healing you or you believe your big smart mind is, is, uh, just being cleared out of its fear, you think of it in psychological terms. It's two different models, but it's the same.

Mary Karr

Nothing more grounding than handling human feces.

Mary Karr (quoting a Buddhist friend)

I was memorizing the bad news, I think, for my whole life.

Mary Karr

Mary Karr's Daily Prayer and Meditation Practice

Mary Karr
  1. Perform 20-30 minutes of centering prayer, focusing on following the breath and clearing the head.
  2. Conduct an 'examine of conscience' by playing back the last 24 hours of the day.
  3. Savor moments where God was perceived to be present, such as sweet exchanges or feelings of love.
  4. Reflect on moments of 'sin' (turning away from God, self-centered fear, brusqueness) and ask for forgiveness.
  5. At night, engage in other prayers for sick, struggling, leaders, or those in need.

Gratitude List Practice

Mary Karr (as advised by a Harvard social theorist friend)
  1. Make a daily gratitude list for every letter of the alphabet.
  2. Be specific about things to be grateful for (e.g., 'for the apples we bought').

Memoir Sequel Writing Advice

Mary Karr
  1. Write down all necessary background information for new readers, aiming for 3-5 pages.
  2. Identify an organizing principle for the new book, often an 'inner enemy' or internal conflict.
  3. Start the narrative in the current struggle and then incorporate flashbacks for context.
  4. Avoid reusing sentences or language from the previous book; get your head out of it.
  5. Begin by 'vomiting up' all initial thoughts and content without self-censorship.
26-27 years
Years Mary Karr has been meditating Started after getting sober in a mental institution.
7 times
Number of times Mary Karr's mother was married Indicates a dysfunctional family background.
About 10
Age of Mary Karr during a suicide attempt Reflects lifelong depression.
9 months
Duration of sobriety before entering a mental institution A triumph, but led to deeper depression.
30 days
Duration of daily prayer suggested to Mary Karr To see if she felt better, while in the mental institution.
3 weeks later
Time it took for Mary Karr to receive a grant after praying for money Received a Whiting Writers Award unexpectedly.
30 weeks
Length of Ignatian exercises program Involves praying 1-1.5 hours daily.
1,200 pages
Amount of finished pages Mary Karr discarded from 'Lit' Over 7-8 years of writing.