Matt Gutman, The Boys in the Cave

Nov 14, 2018 Episode Page ↗
Overview

ABC News Senior National Correspondent Matt Gutman discusses his book, "The Boys in the Cave," detailing the Thai cave rescue and the role meditation played. He also shares his personal meditation journey, started at age 12, and how it helps him manage work-related anxiety and grief.

At a Glance
20 Insights
1h 1m Duration
14 Topics
3 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Matt Gutman and the Thai Cave Rescue Book

Listener Voicemails: Meditation for Sleep and TM Practice

Matt Gutman's Early Life and Introduction to Meditation

Coping with Personal Tragedy Through Meditation

Anxiety and Panic Attacks in High-Pressure Journalism

Meditation and Mindfulness Techniques for Anxiety

Using Meditation for Sleep Difficulties

The Thai Cave Rescue: Discovery and Initial Challenges

Coach Ake's Background as a Buddhist Monk

Meditation's Role in the Boys' Survival in the Cave

Coach Ake's Orphanage and Monastic Training

Revisiting Criticism and Vindication of Coach Ake

The Extreme Peril and Complexity of the Rescue Mission

The Rapid Writing Process of 'The Boys in the Cave'

Transcendental Meditation (TM)

A specific meditation method involving a secret, personal mantra that is repeated in an almost arrhythmic way. The goal is to transcend ordinary thought and experience deeper states of consciousness, and it is taught through a structured course.

Metta (Loving Kindness) Meditation

An ancient Buddhist practice, also translated as 'friendliness,' where one visualizes people (starting with easy individuals like children, then oneself, neutral people, difficult people, and finally all beings) and mentally repeats phrases of good wishes, such as 'may you be happy, may you be safe.' This practice aims to cultivate positive emotions and reduce aversion.

Vipassana Meditation

Often translated as 'insight meditation,' this Buddhist practice typically involves observing the breath as it comes in and goes out. The practitioner's attention is repeatedly brought back to the breath whenever the mind wanders, aiming to develop insight into the nature of reality. It is often taught alongside Metta practice.

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Can meditation be used effectively to help with sleep?

Yes, meditation can be a great tool for sleep, even though its ultimate purpose is often seen as awakening. Many people find it helpful for calming the mind and falling asleep, and there is high demand for sleep-related meditations on apps.

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How did Matt Gutman's early introduction to meditation impact his life?

Matt Gutman started Transcendental Meditation at age 12, just months before his father was killed in a plane crash. His mother encouraged him to continue the practice, which became a crucial coping mechanism for dealing with intense grief and trauma, and has remained a touchstone throughout his life.

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How does Matt Gutman manage anxiety and panic attacks in his high-pressure journalism career?

Despite years of meditation, Matt Gutman still experiences panic attacks and nervousness before going live on air. He uses mindfulness breathing techniques, such as imagining a string with five knots and slowly exhaling between them, to try and calm himself, though he notes it doesn't always work.

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How did the Thai cave rescue coach prepare the boys for survival?

Coach Ake, who had spent a decade as a Buddhist monk, taught the boys mindfulness, breathing exercises, and chants. His monastic training also prepared him to understand and control hunger and endure suffering, which helped him guide the boys through their ordeal in the cave.

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What were the true risks and complexities of the Thai cave rescue mission?

Rescuers faced critically low oxygen levels (15%) in the boys' chamber, rising water, and the impossibility of long-term resupply. Divers initially estimated an 80% fatality rate during extraction, and the boys had to be heavily sedated with ketamine to be transported through treacherous, narrow underwater passages, with a U.S. major considering one live boy a success.

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Why was the Thai cave rescue coach initially criticized, and how is he viewed now?

Coach Ake was initially criticized for taking the boys into the cave without parental permission or registering with park rangers. However, he is now lionized in Thailand for keeping the boys alive through meditation, discipline, and morale, with a cave expert stating the flooding was unpredictable and not the coach's fault.

1. Optimize Sleep with 3-Step Routine

To improve sleep, combine stretching, sitting meditation, and a gratitude practice where you review 3 specific things you’re grateful for that happened today for a couple of minutes before bed, deliberately slowing down and accepting what sleep you get.

2. Daily Gratitude for Brain Training

Practice daily gratitude by focusing on 3 specific things that happened today for which you are grateful, as this trains your brain to scan for positive experiences and can lift spirits.

3. Cultivate Friendliness (Metta) Meditation

Practice Metta (loving-kindness or friendliness) meditation by starting with an “easy” person, sending them good vibes, then extending this friendliness to yourself, loved ones, difficult people, neutral people, and all living beings to change your inner weather and foster self-compassion.

4. Meditate for Better Sleep

Incorporate meditation before bed to help calm your mind, improve sleep, and function better, as both full TM practice or mindfulness breathing exercises can be effective.

5. Maintain Consistent Meditation Schedule

Practice meditation on a regimented schedule, even when tired or feeling you’ll sleep fine, as inconsistency can lead to restlessness and hinder benefits.

6. Consider Transcendental Meditation (TM)

Explore Transcendental Meditation (TM) as a practice, as its basic method has been around for thousands of years and is considered useful, dedicating 20-30 minutes for the full practice if you choose to learn it.

7. Calm Nerves with Breathing Technique

To calm nerves in high-pressure situations, imagine a string with five knots, breathing in at the top of five and exhaling slowly to four, then inhaling at four and exhaling to three, and so on, to help regulate your state.

8. Release Meditation Perfectionism

When meditating, release the need to “meditate well” or “win,” as self-judgment and success-obsession defeat the purpose of the practice and are a “losing proposition.”

9. Practice General Friendliness

Be generally friendly and nice to people in your daily interactions, as this can lead to practical benefits and positive reciprocation, such as recovering lost items.

10. Find Joy in Children’s Images

When feeling down, bring the image of your children’s smiling faces to mind and “meditate” on it, as it can be a source of profound joy and gratitude.

11. Teach Gratitude to Children

Teach children the gratitude practice of listing three things they are grateful for that happened today, as it’s easy to apply and can reinforce gratitude, lift spirits, and potentially aid sleep.

12. Avoid Rushing Bedtime

Avoid rushing to go to sleep, as this often guarantees sleeplessness; instead, deliberately slow down and accept that you can’t control sleep but can improve your odds by combining calming practices.

13. Understand Hunger through Fasting

Practice temporary fasting or disciplined eating (e.g., one large meal a day) to understand and gain control over hunger, which can help endure suffering and deprivation.

14. Parenting: Allow Child Freedom

Allow children the freedom to explore and “be boys” (or themselves) within a safe community, as overly restrictive parenting can be detrimental to their recovery and development.

15. Crisis Management: Activity & Meditation

In dire situations, maintain morale and focus by engaging in physical activity (even if the outcome is uncertain) and leading regular mindfulness, breathing, and meditation sessions.

16. Explore New Meditation App

Download and sign up for the new “10% with Dan Harris” meditation app at danharris.com for guided meditations, live community sessions, and ad-free podcast episodes.

17. Try Morning Meditation

Practice meditation in the morning or at other times, in addition to before bed, for broader benefits, as long as it doesn’t negatively impact your life.

18. Contact Podcast with Voicemails

Call 646-883-8326 to leave a voicemail for the 10% Happier podcast.

19. Subscribe and Rate Podcast

If you enjoy the podcast, please take a minute to subscribe and rate it.

20. Suggest Podcast Topics/Guests

Suggest podcast topics or guests by tweeting Dan B. Harris at @DanBHarris.

Meditation is designed to wake up in the grandest sense of that phrase. The Buddha means, you know, the awakened one. The whole point is to wake up to the reality of your existence, stop sleepwalking through your life, et cetera, et cetera. But look, if you're going to live successfully, you do need to sleep.

Dan Harris

I am anxious. I am self-conscious. I am nervous by nature. I am high energy. I am everything that meditation is not, which is why it's so good for me when I do it, right?

Matt Gutman

The don't mess up one often is more powerful than the other one. And for me, it's not necessarily that that many people are watching. It's the expectation of perfection, right?

Matt Gutman

When you are nice to people, good things do happen to you. That's true. If you are nice to a cab driver, which I typically am, and you forget something in their car, they are more likely to stop and give you your wallet or your phone that you've left in there.

Matt Gutman

We are so judgmental in our society and we are so success-obsessed, right? So that even when we meditate, we feel that we have to meditate well, which totally defeats the purpose. We feel like we have to win at meditation.

Matt Gutman

It would be easier to communicate with people on the moon than it would be to the boys and anybody else in Chamber 9.

Matt Gutman (quoting a U.S. Special Ops Air Force guy)

If we get one boy home to his parents, I personally would consider that a success.

Matt Gutman (quoting a U.S. major running the rescue operation)

Mindfulness Breathing for Anxiety/Nervousness

Matt Gutman
  1. Imagine having a string with five knots.
  2. Breathe in at the top of five.
  3. Exhale as slowly as possible to get to four.
  4. Inhale again at four.
  5. Exhale to get down to three, and so on, continuing the count down.

Sleep Aid Routine

Dan Harris
  1. Stretch before bed.
  2. Sit and meditate for a while.
  3. As you lay down in bed, spend a couple of minutes reviewing in your mind three things you are grateful for that happened today.

Metta (Loving Kindness) Meditation Progression

Dan Harris
  1. Start with an 'easy' person (e.g., your children) and visualize them, sending them good vibes through the mental repetition of phrases like 'may you be happy, may you be safe'.
  2. Once a sense of positive emotion ('juice') is built up, visualize yourself and send the same phrases to yourself.
  3. Expand to include your wife, a difficult colleague, or a neutral person (e.g., someone you overlook at the dry cleaners).
  4. Finally, extend the good wishes to all living beings everywhere.
12 years old
Matt Gutman's age when he started TM In the summer of 1989
1.5 to 2 months
Time between Matt Gutman starting TM and his father's death His father died on September 25, 1990
Almost 41
Matt Gutman's approximate age His father was barely 42 when he died
1 decade
Duration Coach Ake spent as a Buddhist monk Before becoming a soccer coach
25 years old
Coach Ake's age At the time of the cave rescue
10 years old
Coach Ake's age when orphaned When a plague swept through his village
13
Number of people trapped in the Thai cave 12 youth soccer players and their coach
10 days
Days trapped before discovery They were found by British divers
Over 1.5 miles
Distance boys were found inside the cave Of scuba diving through narrow passages
2.5 feet
Height of some cave passages No higher than a two-year-old's height
3 feet
Amount wetter than normal monsoon season Due to climate change
15%
Oxygen level in chamber nine (where boys were trapped) Below 17% causes loss of cognitive ability; anything lower risks asphyxiation
36 hours
Time window for rescue before next monsoon rains Given by U.S. Special Operations Group to Thai government
80%
Estimated fatality rate during extraction (divers' initial thought) Meaning 9 out of 12 boys might die
4 to 6
Number of people who could complete the dive without serious trouble The most experienced cave divers in the world
24 days
Time to write the first manuscript of 'The Boys in the Cave' Matt Gutman wrote and reported simultaneously