Nirvana | Joseph Goldstein
Dan Harris hosts Joseph Goldstein, co-founder of Insight Meditation Society, to demystify Nirvana (Nibbana), exploring its meaning beyond pop culture. They discuss its attainability for ordinary people and share practical insights and practices for experiencing glimpses of peace and freedom from suffering.
Deep Dive Analysis
17 Topic Outline
Introduction to Nirvana/Nibbana and its Cultural Misconceptions
Why Nibbana is Not Often Discussed in Western Buddhism
The Danger of Striving and the Distinction Between Aspiration and Expectation
Understanding the Meaning of Nibbana: Cessation and Peace
Nibbana as the Cessation of Greed, Hatred, and Delusion
Joseph Goldstein's First Meditation Experience and Insight
Joseph Goldstein's Experience of Nibbana (Zero)
The Stages of Awakening and the Uprooting of Defilements
The Concept of Conceit (Mana) in Buddhist Psychology
Explaining Selflessness and the Illusion of a Solid Self
The Unconditioned Nature of Zero and Momentary Nibbana
The Experience of 'Little Stream Enterer' or Pseudo Nirvana
Accessibility of Nibbana Experiences for Regular Practitioners
The Seven Levels of Happiness and the Benefits of Aiming High
Reconciling Loving-Kindness with Difficult Situations
Practices for Glimpses of Temporary Nibbana
The Unfindability of Mind and the Zen Story of Bodhidharma
7 Key Concepts
Nibbana (Nirvana)
Nibbana refers to two things: first, the ultimate silence or highest peace experienced when the 'hum' of the mind-body process stops, analogous to the quiet after a refrigerator hum ceases. Second, it is the cessation of greed, hatred, and delusion, representing a mind purified and free from these forces that cause suffering.
Aspiration vs. Expectation
Aspiration sets a direction and provides meaning, allowing one to value and aim for a goal without attachment to immediate results. Expectation, in contrast, involves wanting something to happen now and leads to frustration when progress is not linear or immediate, hindering the spiritual path.
Stages of Awakening
Enlightenment or awakening progresses through four stages, beginning with 'entering the stream' where full awakening becomes inevitable. Each stage involves the uprooting or attenuation of different defilements, gradually purifying the mind from deeply conditioned habit patterns like craving, aversion, and restlessness.
Selflessness (Non-self)
Selflessness means that 'self' is a concept or designation for the continuous flow of our mind-body process, much like 'river' describes the flow of water. It is not a fixed, independent entity, and meditation refines perception to see the constant, microscopic change and impermanence of all phenomena, revealing the 'self' as an illusion.
Conceit (Mana)
In Buddhist psychology, conceit (mana) refers to any sense of 'I am,' including comparisons like 'I'm better than,' 'worse than,' or 'the same as you,' and temporal notions like 'I was this' or 'I will be this.' It is a deeply conditioned pattern that persists even after the initial realization of selflessness, though wisdom helps one relate to it as an impersonal habit rather than a personal identity.
Momentary Nibbana
Momentary Nibbana describes brief experiences when the mind cools down and is not conditioned by wanting, aversion, or ignorance. It's a temporary state of peace and freedom from the 'burning' of grasping and clinging, accessible to everyone without particular meditative skill, simply by observing the mind's oscillations between agitation and peace.
Little Stream Enterer (Pseudo Nirvana)
This is a stage in intensive meditation practice where the mind achieves a high level of refined perception, seeing the extremely rapid arising and passing away of phenomena. The mind feels crystalline, clear, and alert, and while extraordinary, it is called 'pseudo nirvana' because it's a profound glimpse of reality rather than full awakening.
9 Questions Answered
Joseph Goldstein prefers 'Nibbana,' the Pali word, because 'Nirvana' has been co-opted in popular culture, stripping away its spiritual aspect. Using 'Nibbana' helps focus on its original meaning as the goal of Buddhist teachings.
Historically, when Buddhist teachings first came to the West, there was little cultural context for such exotic concepts. Teachers focused on relatable practices like mindfulness, but as understanding deepens, some, including Joseph, are beginning to discuss Nibbana more openly.
Yes, there is a potential hazard if practitioners focus solely on enlightenment without laying the foundation of ethical behavior and non-harming. It's crucial to distinguish between aspiration (setting a direction) and expectation (demanding immediate results), as the latter can hinder progress.
Nibbana fundamentally refers to two things: the ultimate peace and stillness that arises when the constant 'hum' of the mind-body process ceases, and the complete cessation or uprooting of greed, hatred, and delusion from the mind and heart.
In the tradition Joseph Goldstein follows, awakening occurs in stages. At each stage, different defilements are either uprooted (meaning they don't return) or attenuated (they return in a much weaker form), with the ultimate goal of completely uprooting these forces from the mind.
Selflessness means that the 'self' is a concept or designation for the continuous, ever-changing flow of our mind-body process, rather than a solid, independent entity. It doesn't mean we don't exist, but that our perception of a fixed, separate self is an illusion that meditation helps us see through.
Yes, experiences like momentary Nibbana (a cooled-down mind free from agitation) and the 'little stream enterer' stage (seeing rapid arising and passing of phenomena) are well within the capacity of dedicated practitioners, even if they are not monks or nuns. Full enlightenment might take more, but the path offers increasing levels of happiness along the way.
Absolutely. A successful practice can lead to being less of an 'asshole' to oneself and others, noticing sensory details more vividly, and generally improving one's life. However, aiming for Nibbana as the highest goal can bring all these other benefits along the way, as it involves letting go of the forces that cause suffering.
Instead of wishing 'may you be happy,' which can be incomprehensible in such situations, one can wish 'may you be free of hatred' or 'may you be free of enmity.' This reframes the wish to target the destructive forces in the mind that cause harm, which is a universal aspiration.
15 Actionable Insights
1. Investigate: Can I Find the Knower?
When experiencing a sound or any phenomenon, ask “Can I find what’s knowing the sound?” to genuinely investigate the nature of the knowing mind, realizing its unfindability yet constant knowing.
2. Experience Phenomena in Mind’s Empty Sky
Practice collapsing the sense of separation by realizing that sensory experiences, like a bird song, are arising within the “empty sky of your mind,” offering a glimpse of selflessness.
3. Practice Non-Wanting Mind
When you notice wanting something, remind yourself that “whatever has the nature to arise will also pass away,” allowing your mind to drop back from wanting and experience the freedom of a non-wanting state.
4. Observe Desire’s Arising and Passing
When desire arises, notice it, stay with it, and then observe that the desire will pass, experiencing the relief of that moment as a temporary Nibbana.
5. Reflect on Impermanence
Contemplate the teaching “whatever has the nature to arise will also pass away” to understand the impermanence of all experiences, which can lead to a deeper sense of freedom.
6. Recognize Conceit as Impersonal Habit
When conceit (any sense of “I am”) arises, recognize it as an impersonal, deeply conditioned habit of mind rather than taking it personally, which allows for more ease and less self-judgment.
7. Balance Present Step with Vision
Pay attention to the step right in front of you to avoid obstacles, while also maintaining a vision of your ultimate destination to stay inspired and keep taking the next steps.
8. Cultivate Aspiration, Release Expectation
Hold your goals as aspirations to set a direction for your path and work, rather than expectations that lead to frustration when things don’t happen immediately as desired.
9. Time Is Not a Factor
Adopt the mindset that on the spiritual path, time is not a factor, which helps to let go of the expectation-driven mindset of measuring progress and driving oneself crazy.
10. Observe Mind’s Agitation & Peace
Throughout your day, pay attention to the oscillations between times when your mind is caught up and agitated, and times when it is peaceful and “cooled out,” to understand the flavor of momentary Nibbana.
11. Observe Your Mind
To understand your mind, sit down (or stand, or lie down) and observe it systematically, as this is the fundamental way to gain insight into its workings.
12. Look Into Your Own Mind
Engage in practices that allow you to look into your mind, rather than just through it, to systematically observe inner experiences and understand yourself.
13. Wish Freedom from Hatred for All
When practicing loving-kindness, extend the wish “May you be free of hatred, may you be free of enmity” to all beings, understanding that these forces cause suffering for everyone.
14. Aim for Highest Spiritual Goal
Aim for the highest spiritual goal, such as Nibbana or complete awakening, because all other increasing levels of happiness and benefits will naturally arise along the way.
15. Realizations Are Beginnings, Not Ends
Understand that powerful transformative moments or genuine spiritual realizations are often beginnings, not ends, and should not be misinterpreted as completion of the path.
7 Key Quotes
People who want to get enlightened without the foundation of ethics, without the foundation of non-harming in behavior, is like somebody in a boat wanting to cross the river and not untying the boat from the dock.
Joseph Goldstein
On the spiritual path, time is not a factor.
Joseph Goldstein
The highest happiness is peace.
Joseph Goldstein
You look at zero and you see nothing. Look through it and you see the world.
Joseph Goldstein
When you look for the mind, you can't find it. And the not finding is the finding.
Joseph Goldstein
Whatever has the nature to arise will also pass away.
Joseph Goldstein
If you aim for the highest, if you aim for Nibbana, all the rest will come along the way.
Joseph Goldstein
5 Protocols
Practice for Glimpsing Temporary Nibbana (Non-Wanting Mind)
Joseph Goldstein- Reflect on the teaching: 'Whatever has the nature to arise will also pass away.'
- Observe phenomena (sensations, thoughts, sounds) arising and passing away in meditation or daily life.
- Add the thought: 'Therefore, there's nothing to want,' recognizing that any desired phenomenon will also pass.
- Notice the mind dropping back from wanting and become aware of the experience of the non-wanting mind.
Practice for Glimpsing Selflessness (Bird Song in Empty Sky)
Joseph Goldstein- Observe a sensory experience, like hearing a bird song.
- Instead of perceiving a separation (bird there, me here), try to experience it as 'bird song in the empty sky of my mind.'
- Extend this to other experiences, realizing 'everything is arising in the empty space of our mind,' collapsing the sense of separation.
Practice for Glimpsing Temporary Nibbana (Desire Passing)
Dan Harris (attributed to Joseph Goldstein)- Notice when you want something in your mind during daily life.
- Stay with the feeling of desire.
- Notice that the desire will pass.
- Observe the moment after the desire has passed, which is a temporary relief or 'nirvana'.
Practice for Glimpsing the Mystery of Consciousness (Who is Knowing This?)
Dan Harris (attributed to Joseph Goldstein)- Notice whatever you are currently experiencing (sights, sounds, body feelings).
- Ask yourself: 'Who is knowing this?' or 'This is being known by what?'
- Optionally, ask a supplemental question: 'Who's asking this question?'
- Recognize the unfindability of the 'knower' while the knowing is still happening, which points to the nature of awareness.
Practice for Pacifying the Mind (Bodhidharma's Teaching)
Joseph Goldstein- When feeling distressed or caught up in suffering, ask: 'Can I find what's knowing the sound?' or 'Show me your mind.'
- Recognize that you cannot find the mind as a fixed entity.
- Understand that in this 'not finding' or 'unfindability,' the mind is already pacified, as distress arises from entanglement with content, not the nature of knowing itself.