Robert Thurman, Renowned Buddhist Scholar

Dec 7, 2016 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Robert Thurman, a renowned Buddhist scholar and one of the first American Tibetan monks, discusses his journey into Buddhism, his close relationship with the Dalai Lama, and the core tenets of Mahayana Buddhism. He explores the concept of non-dual nirvana and the potential for Buddhist principles to foster global happiness and peace.

At a Glance
17 Insights
1h 12m Duration
17 Topics
6 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Robert Thurman's Background

Early Life and Path to Buddhism

Monkhood, Marriage, and Becoming a Scholar

Mission and Work of Tibet House

Dalai Lama's Longevity and Leadership

Insights into the Dalai Lama's Personality

"Man of Peace": A Graphic Novel on Dalai Lama

Dalai Lama's Stance on Non-Violence

Theravada vs. Mahayana Buddhism Explained

Understanding Non-Duality and Nirvana

The Four Noble Truths in Mahayana Context

Evidence for Infinite Lives and Nirvana's Presence

How Buddhism Transformed Tibet

Global Spread and Impact of Dharma

Buddhist Perspective on Ambition and Wealth

Robert Thurman's Personal Practice and Optimism for Tibet

The Value of Mindfulness and Self-Awareness

Inner Science

A concept referring to the science of emotions and the body, which includes practices like yoga and natural medicine such as Ayurveda. Robert Thurman sought this different knowledge in India, believing it was something the West lacked.

Non-duality

A core Mahayana Buddhist teaching that nirvana is not separate from this world, but is intrinsically present 'right here, right now.' It implies that there is no absolute reality existing outside the web of relativity, leading to the understanding that all beings are interwoven and thus compassion is a natural outcome of wisdom.

Nirvana

The extinction of suffering, literally meaning 'blown out' or 'blown away.' In Mahayana Buddhism, it is the ultimate state of being completely free from personal desires and suffering, yet still fully present and engaged in the world, recognizing that reality at its deepest level is total bliss.

Ethnocide

A term used by Robert Thurman (and preferred over 'cultural genocide') to describe the Chinese government's efforts to recondition Tibetans to adopt a Chinese identity and suppress their distinct Tibetan culture. This policy aims to make Tibetan culture unknown and disruptive to Chinese narratives.

Bodhisattva

An 'enlightenment hero' in Buddhism who cultivates wealth not for personal consumption, but with the motivation to share it and give money to others. This reflects a capitalist ethic rooted in asceticism, where consuming less than one produces creates capital for altruistic purposes.

Sati (Remembering)

The ancient Pali term for what is commonly translated as 'mindfulness.' It literally means 'remembering' – being aware of one's presence and surroundings, rather than allowing the mind to wander vaguely. This self-awareness fosters self-compassion and helps in making conscious choices.

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What is the difference between early Buddhism (Theravada) and Mahayana Buddhism?

Theravada and Mahayana are not fundamentally different, as every Tibetan monk has a Theravada Buddhist vow. The main distinction lies in the understanding of nirvana; Theravada often views nirvana as an escape from this world, while Mahayana teaches non-duality, meaning nirvana is right here, right now, but people don't realize it.

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What does 'non-duality' mean in Buddhism?

Non-duality means that there is no absolute reality separate from the web of relativity. The ultimate reality (nirvana) is not 'elsewhere' but is intrinsically present in this world, leading to the understanding that all beings are interwoven, and therefore wisdom necessitates compassion.

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What is 'nirvana' in the Buddhist context?

Nirvana is the extinction of suffering, literally meaning 'blown out' or 'blown away.' It represents a state of ultimate bliss and freedom from deficit or problems, where one is fully conscious at the deepest level of reality and has no personal desires, yet remains engaged with the world.

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Why did the Buddha initially teach a 'dualistic' view of nirvana (as separate from the world) to some disciples?

The Buddha taught a dualistic view because some people were too sensitive and engaged in suffering to conceive of everything being perfect 'here.' It was the medicine they needed at that time to strive to get away from things, as they couldn't cope with the idea of spending thousands more lifetimes doing stuff.

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What is the logical evidence for nirvana being 'here and now' and for the concept of infinite lives?

Logically, if nirvana were different from the world, it couldn't be the absolute because there would be a boundary, making it relative to the world. For infinite lives, the evidence is that a boundary implies something on the other side, and infinity is the rule, not the exception, as everything is continuous.

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How did Buddhism come to Tibet and transform its culture?

Tibetans, originally fierce conquerors, adopted Buddhism after their rulers observed its civilizing influence in surrounding cultures. They sent people to India to get a writing system and translate texts, gradually shifting from external conquest to self-conquest, leading to a more altruistic and happier society.

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What is the Buddhist perspective on ambition, wealth, and success?

Ambition and wealth are not inherently bad. A Bodhisattva, for example, seeks wealth to give it away and help others. The key is motivation: if driven by joy and a desire to benefit others, it's positive. If driven by narcissistic neurosis or purely egocentric gain, it leads to endless dissatisfaction.

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What is the true meaning of 'mindfulness' (sati)?

The ancient term 'sati' actually means 'remembering.' It signifies remembering one's presence and surroundings, becoming more aware of oneself rather than letting the mind wander vaguely. This self-awareness fosters self-compassion and can help in making conscious choices.

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Is the modern mindfulness movement a 'prostitution' of real Buddhism?

No, Robert Thurman disagrees with this view. He believes that any degree of self-awareness attained through any method, even if it's just to be 1% or 10% happier or more productive, is beneficial. It's a service that Buddhist culture offers, helping people become more aware of their health and mental mechanisms.

1. Cultivate Altruistic Motivation

When taking action, especially in ambition or business, cultivate a motivation for the well-being of others and society. This approach provides more energy and leads to greater satisfaction than purely self-serving goals.

2. Practice Self-Conquest

Instead of seeking to conquer others or external circumstances, focus on inner transformation and self-conquest. This path fosters a happier and more peaceful internal and external life.

3. Recognize Intrinsic Freedom

Understand that you are intrinsically free and ‘blown away’ (in nirvana) right now. Suffering arises from the ignorance of thinking you are separate from the benevolent universe and constantly lacking.

4. Prioritize Self-Awareness & Restraint

Engage in practices that increase self-awareness, help you understand your mind’s workings, and develop restraint over powerful emotions. This prevents trouble and leads to greater well-being.

5. Commit to Daily Meditation

Practice meditation every day, specifically before sleep, briefly between tasks, and in the early morning. This consistent practice deepens your spiritual path and aids in realizing nirvana.

6. Embrace “Remembering” (Sati)

Practice ‘remembering’ (Sati), which means staying present and aware of your current state and surroundings. This prevents your mind from wandering vaguely and increases presence.

7. Seek Joy in Giving

Find true and lasting joy in giving things away and witnessing the happiness of others. Accumulating possessions for personal gratification leads to immediate and endless dissatisfaction.

8. Adopt Positive Default Mindset

Believe that the default situation in life is inherently good, a fundamental ‘good news’ discovery of Buddhism. This mindset can significantly alleviate suffering.

9. Avoid “Me Versus Universe”

Overcome the ignorance of perceiving yourself as separate from the universe. This ‘me versus the universe’ mindset inevitably leads to suffering and loss.

10. Act on Impermanence Shock

When faced with a profound realization of impermanence, such as a significant loss or change, use it as a catalyst to act on your deeper spiritual or life goals. This prevents passively floating through life and encourages meaningful action.

11. Integrate Spiritual Practices

Integrate spiritual or self-awareness practices within your existing cultural or religious context rather than abandoning it. This approach fosters broader acceptance and avoids upsetting family members.

12. Start Where You Are

Begin spiritual or self-improvement practices at your current level of understanding and comfort. Getting started, even with small steps (e.g., 1% or 10% happier), is crucial for deeper engagement and progress.

13. Explore “Inner Science”

Investigate Indian ‘inner science,’ which includes the science of emotions, the body (through yoga), and natural medicine (Ayurveda). This can provide knowledge not typically found in Western thought.

14. Approach Conflict with Negotiation

When faced with conflict, advocate for negotiation, understanding the problem, and direct communication. This is a more effective and peaceful approach than resorting to violence or aggressive reactions.

15. Treat Family with Respect

Avoid internal nastiness towards women and children, as this fosters a miserable life and culture. Instead, treat them with respect to cultivate a happier social life.

16. Cultivate Contentment & Non-Harm

Practice contentment with what you have and avoid the urge to constantly acquire more or harm others. Recognizing that you likely have enough leads to greater peace.

17. Apply Altruism to Business

Conduct business with an altruistic mindset, focusing on satisfying clients and customers. Consider dedicating a portion of profits or equity to charitable causes, as exemplified by successful models.

The universe always wins.

Robert Thurman

A boundary implies there's something on the other side of the boundary. The idea of a boundary with only something on this side is not sensible, makes no sense.

Robert Thurman (attributing Wittgenstein)

For something to become nothing is abnormal. That's a sort of irrational assertion, actually.

Robert Thurman

What I later learned was called inner science, science of emotions, even the body, which is actually yoga as a product of.

Robert Thurman

Tibetans wanted Americans to help them in their refugee plight, you know, and their struggle with China. And the Americans didn't know what a Buddhist monk, in those days, you know, like Matthew Ricard, we have people now. But in those days, they didn't know that.

Robert Thurman

Anything that people do to become more aware of their health, to become more aware of how their mind is working, to become a little bit more restrained in control of how the mechanisms that cause them to have powerful emotions, which sometimes sweep them off their feet, where they then get into trouble, or they make trouble. You know, anything that increases such self-awareness, that's the kind of service that Tibet, India, China, Japan, Asia, you know, the Buddhist culture would like to offer.

Robert Thurman

Egocentric-based driven satisfactions are automatically, and we know it, you know, when we're blown away, even at a concert, or even at a museum, some of you have an aesthetic experience, it ends the minute we turn to think, how blown away was I? How good was it? How good was it compared to the last concert I was at?

Robert Thurman
75
Robert Thurman's age At the time of the interview.
17 or 18
Robert Thurman's age at first marriage His wife was 25.
50th
Robert Thurman's second marriage anniversary To be celebrated the year after the interview.
1
Number of children from Robert Thurman's first marriage A daughter.
4
Number of children from Robert Thurman's second marriage Including Uma Thurman.
113 years
Dalai Lama's promised lifespan Fulfilling ancient prophecy.
52 years
Duration Robert Thurman has known the Dalai Lama Since 1961.
December 10th
"Man of Peace" graphic novel release date Hardback release.
6 million
Tibetan population at the time of Chinese invasion (approx.) Against 600-800 million Chinese.
4 centuries
Duration Mahayana was held in reserve Before being widely taught.
18
Number of dualistic Buddhist schools in India Before Mahayana became prominent.
3 miles
Preferred altitude for Tibetans Gives a 'kind of high' due to less oxygen.