Sam Harris and Dan Harris Live Show
Neuroscientist and author Sam Harris joins Dan Harris live to discuss meditation, its true nature, and the experience of retreats. They explore how the practice can reduce mental 'craziness' and offer actionable insights for cultivating mindfulness and emotional intelligence.
Deep Dive Analysis
16 Topic Outline
Introduction to Sam Harris and his impact on Dan
Sam Harris's early meditation journey and skepticism
The 'Two Doorways' into meditation: Usefulness vs. Truth
The role of science in validating meditation practice
Guided meditation exercise for the audience
Dan's challenging first meditation retreat experience
Understanding the 'crazy' nature of the human mind
Sam's emphasis on the 'no-self' insight in meditation
Audience Q&A: Deciding when to end a meditation retreat
Audience Q&A: Dealing with plateaus in meditation practice
Audience Q&A: Why choosing mindfulness is often difficult
Audience Q&A: Goenka Vipassana retreats and affordability
Audience Q&A: Shifting perspectives on negative emotions
Audience Q&A: Collective consciousness and societal mindfulness
Audience Q&A: Sensory deprivation tanks in meditation
Audience Q&A: Different forms and purposes of meditation
8 Key Concepts
The Two Doorways to Meditation
People approach meditation through two main paths: one is the 'usefulness' door, focusing on practical benefits like stress reduction and health, and the other is the 'truth' door, seeking to understand the mind's first-person experience and its true nature.
The 'Crazy' Mind
This refers to the incessant, often superfluous inner monologue that, if vocalized, would make one indistinguishable from someone who is actually psychotic. Meditation helps to observe this mental chatter and disidentify from it, revealing a different picture of what a healthy mind could be.
The Illusion of Self/Ego
This is the insight that consciousness itself, the sheer fact of knowing anything, does not feel like a separate 'I' or a subject residing in the head. Recognizing this can be radically freeing, interrupting the identification with thoughts and the mediocre emotions that follow.
Fallacy of Uniqueness
The common misconception that one's own mind is uniquely busy or chaotic, making meditation impossible. In reality, a busy, racing mind evolved for threat detection and pleasure-seeking is the human condition, and noticing its busyness is a success in meditation.
Practice Assessment Tapes
A term for the habit of obsessing over the current state of one's meditation practice, questioning progress, concentration levels, or the overall utility of the practice. This often manifests as a 'hindrance' of doubt, leading to unconstructive self-questioning.
Mind as Trainable Skill
The empowering understanding that desirable qualities like calm, focus, compassion, patience, and self-awareness are not fixed 'factory settings' but are skills that can be developed and improved through consistent mental training, much like physical skills.
Concentration Practices
A form of meditation where the goal is to focus one-pointed attention on a single object, such as the breath or a candle flame, to achieve deep states of focus. In these practices, thoughts are considered distractions, and the aim is to notice nothing else.
Insight Practice (Mindfulness)
A meditation technique that, while requiring some concentration, is primarily about simply noticing whatever is arising in consciousness without expectation. The goal is to gain insights into the nature of consciousness itself, such as impermanence, rather than prolonging specific pleasant states.
11 Questions Answered
People are drawn to meditation either for its practical benefits, such as stress reduction and improved health, or for a deeper, first-person understanding of the mind's true nature.
Science can be a useful 'doorway' to get people interested in meditation by suggesting tantalizing health benefits, but it doesn't have much bearing on the actual practice itself.
For beginners, meditation often involves noticing how distracted the mind is and repeatedly returning attention to the present moment, which is considered a success rather than a failure.
Retreats can be intensely challenging, confronting individuals with their own inner 'insanity' and chatter, but can also lead to profound insights and periods of deep happiness and effortless awareness once a breakthrough occurs.
Meditation helps by revealing that negative emotions cannot be sustained for more than a few seconds without being re-upped by compulsive thought, giving practitioners a choice to disengage from the thoughts that fuel them.
Humans are not naturally wired for calm, nonjudgmental awareness; our minds evolved for hypervigilance. Consistently choosing mindfulness is a skill that hacks evolution, and occasional mindlessness is part of the human condition.
No, different forms of meditation exist with distinct purposes, such as concentration practices (focused on one-pointed attention) and insight practices (like mindfulness, focused on noticing what arises without expectation).
It's recommended to explore various traditions initially to find what resonates, but then stick with one for a couple of years to get grounded and clearly assess its benefits before exploring others.
A widespread adoption of mindfulness could lead to positive societal changes, such as reduced road rage, bullying, and improved social interactions and political discourse, potentially making a 10% difference.
Yes, Goenka retreats are generally considered great and are free, operating on a donation basis, making them an accessible option for those who find other retreats prohibitively expensive.
Yes, intensive retreats can potentially exacerbate certain psychological conditions, especially trauma, and individuals should consult a professional beforehand if they have concerns.
37 Actionable Insights
1. Mind is Trainable Skill
Embrace the core insight that the mind is trainable, and desirable qualities like kindness, compassion, patience, calm, focus, and self-awareness are skills that can be developed. This empowers you to actively cultivate your well-being.
2. Notice Distraction as Success
When meditating, view noticing that your mind has wandered as a success, not a failure. Each time you observe your distraction and gently return your attention, you weaken the power of mental ‘craziness’ over you.
3. Cultivate Effortless Awareness
If you find yourself struggling or ’trying too hard’ in meditation, ease your effort and allow experiences to arise naturally. This can lead to an ’effortless awareness’ where insights come more easily and quickly.
4. Investigate the “Self”
Explore the nature of consciousness by looking for the ‘hearer’ of sounds or the ‘seer’ of sights. This practice can chip away at the sense of inner solidity, which is a source of much suffering.
5. Don’t Try to Stop Thinking
Understand that meditation is not about getting rid of thoughts or thinking less. Instead, notice everything arising, including thoughts, without being distracted or owned by them.
6. Practice Daily Meditation
Engage in daily meditation practice, even for just a minute, as it is generally safe and beneficial. This consistent effort helps you regularly observe your mind’s activity.
7. Address Cultural Baggage
Do not let cultural stereotypes or ‘flowery’ presentations deter you from trying meditation. Recognize that the practice itself can be valuable regardless of its marketing.
8. Consult Professional for Retreats
If you have a history of trauma or psychological conditions, consult a psychotherapist before undertaking intensive meditation retreats. Retreats can exacerbate certain conditions for some individuals.
9. Process Negative Emotions Quickly
Recognize that negative emotions can be appropriate and energizing in certain contexts, but aim to process them very quickly. Observe how compulsive thinking often prolongs these emotions beyond their utility.
10. Reduce “Half-Life of Anger”
Practice reducing the ‘half-life’ of anger by cutting down on compulsive, neurotic thinking that re-ups the emotion. This significantly lessens the potential damage caused by prolonged anger.
11. Reframe Situations Conceptually
Practice reframing challenging situations conceptually to change your emotional response. For example, consider alternative, compassionate explanations for others’ behavior (e.g., they might be in an emergency).
12. Observe Superfluous Self-Talk
Pay attention to your internal monologue and notice how much of your conversation with yourself is ‘deeply superfluous.’ Becoming aware of this can help you reduce unnecessary mental chatter.
13. Don’t Berate Self for Mindlessness
Avoid self-beratement when you find yourself doing mindless things or struggling to maintain mindfulness. Recognize that the human mind is naturally wired for hypervigilance.
14. Avoid Practice Assessment Tapes
Be aware of the tendency to obsess over your meditation practice, questioning if you’ve plateaued or if it’s working. Recognize this ‘doubt’ as a hindrance and avoid ruminative self-questioning.
15. Expect Wavy Progress
Understand that progress in meditation is not linear but often follows a ‘wavy line’ over time, generally moving in a positive direction. This expectation can help you persevere through perceived plateaus.
16. Explore Retreats for Depth
Consider attending a meditation retreat to deepen your practice, as the supportive environment can allow you to reach levels of insight and concentration that may be harder to achieve in daily life.
17. Investigate Retreat Scholarships
If the cost of meditation retreats is a barrier, investigate scholarship opportunities at centers like IMS and Spirit Rock. These organizations often subsidize attendance for those with financial constraints.
18. Consider Goenka Retreats
Consider Goenka Vipassana 10-day retreats as a valid and often free option for intensive meditation practice. They are highly regarded for their methodology.
19. Experiment, Then Stick to One
Initially, feel free to experiment with different forms and traditions of meditation to see what resonates with you. After this exploration, commit to one tradition for a couple of years to gain depth and a clear understanding.
20. Mindfulness Posture
When meditating, sit comfortably with an erect posture to support your attention and awareness.
21. Ground Attention in Senses
Bring your attention to sounds in the room or the feeling of your body resting in space. Let these sensory experiences reveal the open space of awareness.
22. Focus on Breath Sensations
Pay attention to the sensations of your breath, whether at the tip of your nose or the rising and falling of your chest or abdomen. Follow the full cycle of each inhalation and exhalation.
23. Use Visual Field for Awareness
With open eyes, notice the field of color, light, and shadow as an open space of consciousness. Observe how thoughts can also appear within this same field.
24. Disregard Practitioner Hypocrisy
Avoid ’nitpicking’ or ’trash talking’ public meditators, even if you perceive hypocrisy. Generally, more mindfulness in the world is better than less, unless demonstrable harm is being done.
25. Align Attention with Wisdom
Cultivate wisdom by consciously aligning your attention in ways that you will not regret. Use meditation to observe the consequences of how you use your attention and to clarify your priorities.
26. View Well-being as a Skill
Understand that well-being is a skill that can be developed and improved through consistent mental training, rather than a fixed state.
27. Emotional Development is Lifelong
Embrace the understanding that emotional and moral development is a continuous process throughout life, not something that ends after formal education.
28. Seek Joseph Goldstein as Teacher
Consider seeking out a meditation teacher like Joseph Goldstein, who was influential in Dan Harris’s practice and is highly recommended.
29. Adopt “Respectful Agnostic” Stance
Consider adopting the term ‘respectful agnostic’ to describe your spiritual or philosophical stance if it resonates with your personal views. This allows for open-mindedness without dogmatism.
30. Explore Meditation for Health
Investigate meditation as a practice that ‘strongly suggests’ it can confer a long list of tantalizing health benefits. This can be a compelling reason to begin or continue your practice.
31. Explore Meditation for Mind’s Nature
Engage in meditation to understand ‘what is true about the mind from the first person side,’ exploring the nature of consciousness and experience for its own sake, even if not primarily for health benefits.
32. Focus on Being “Less Jerk”
Measure the success of your meditation practice by whether you become ’less of a jerk to yourself and others,’ rather than focusing on scientific metrics like brain scans.
33. Acknowledge Inner “Craziness”
Recognize that the human mind, with its nonstop internal conversation, can be ‘crazy.’ Becoming aware of this ‘craziness’ reduces its power over you.
34. Challenge Fallacy of Uniqueness
Dispel the ‘fallacy of uniqueness’ by understanding that a busy mind is the common human condition, not a unique impediment to meditation. Everyone’s mind is busy.
35. Seek Psychotherapist for Harm
If you find that your meditation practice seems to be doing something bad for you, consult a psychotherapist who is knowledgeable about mindfulness.
36. Understand Psychedelics’ Limitations
Understand that while psychedelics can offer profound experiences, they are impermanent and do not build lasting skills in the same way meditation does. Their effects can also be haphazard.
37. Consult Professional Before Psychedelics
If you have conditions like panic disorder or trauma, consult a professional before considering psychedelics, as they can potentially exacerbate such issues.
7 Key Quotes
Meditation has been the victim of the worst marketing campaign for anything ever.
Dan Harris
You might start meditating because you see the brain scans, but you don't keep meditating because you think your prefrontal cortex would look different in an fMRI right now. You keep meditating because you're less of a **** to yourself and others, and that is the metric that matters.
Dan Harris
What you get when you have any significant experience in meditation is a very different picture of what a healthy mind must be like. And we have a status quo is so close to psychotic that it's really the difference for me is just the fact that most of us most of the time have the good sense to keep our mouths shut and not vocalize the things we're thinking.
Sam Harris
The moment you notice you're lost in thought, you've been distracted for five minutes or whatever while you thought you were meditating, you've been thinking about lunch or replaying some conversation in your head. And the moment you notice that, it's very common to have an additional moment of judgment about that, like, I was supposed to be meditating, like, well, when am I going to learn to do this? And yet, you skillfully reframe that as, that's a moment of success. I mean, that's when it's actually working.
Sam Harris
If you look long enough into your own mind, you'll see a murderer and a rapist. You will see the capacity we all have for all sorts of things, beautiful things, ugly things. And that's okay, actually.
Dan Harris
If you don't get lost in thought about the reason you have to be angry or fearful or anxious or whatever it is, you actually can't maintain that emotion for more than a few seconds at a time.
Sam Harris
The mind is trainable. That all the things we want the most, positive social interactions, positive relationships, kindness, compassion, patience, calm, focus, self-awareness, all the things if we really think about that we want and need the most. These are not factory settings that can't be tinkered with. These are skills that can be trained.
Dan Harris
1 Protocols
Basic Guided Meditation
Sam Harris- Close your eyes (optional), and sit comfortably erect.
- Bring your attention to the sounds in the room, letting each sound reveal the space of awareness.
- Feel your body resting in space, noticing the feeling of gravity and pressure on the chair or armrests.
- Keep your attention wide open.
- The moment you notice your thinking, just come back to hearing sounds and feeling the weight of your body.
- Begin to pay attention to the breath, feeling it at the tip of the nose or in the rising and falling of your chest or abdomen.
- See if you can follow the next inhalation from the moment it appears, and so too with the exhalation.
- Again, the moment you notice your thinking, just come back to a sensation (breath, feeling of sitting, or sounds).
- Open your eyes and notice the field of color, light, and shadow as the open space of consciousness.
- To test this, picture the Eiffel Tower in front of you as a two-foot-high statue, observing how this thought appears in the same field of consciousness.