Sara Bareilles: Anxiety, Anger, and Art (2021)
This episode features singer-songwriter, composer, and actor Sara Bareilles discussing her struggles with anxiety and depression. She shares how meditation, therapy, and self-compassion help her navigate these challenges, and reflects on the relationship between suffering and art.
Deep Dive Analysis
12 Topic Outline
Introduction to Anxiety Series and Sara Bareilles' Background
Sara's Early Experiences with Anxiety and Depression
The Role of Talk Therapy in Sara's Healing Process
Transition to Meditation and its Benefits
Working with Control Issues and Inner Tendencies
The Concept of 'Good-ish' and Self-Compassion
Intimate Relationships and Alleviating Inner Hobgoblins
The Relationship Between Suffering, Creativity, and Meditation
Sara's Anxiety and Depression During the Pandemic
Activism and Social Media: A Double-Edged Sword
Working with Anger and its Underlying Causes
The Value of Public Vulnerability and Honesty
6 Key Concepts
"Wet people" vs. "dry people"
Sara's friend's analogy for people naturally prone to sadness and melancholy ('wet') versus those who are not ('dry'). Sara identifies as a 'wet person' who must actively work to avoid adopting a melancholic lens on the world.
Disassociation
An early symptom of acute anxiety Sara experienced, characterized by an inability to stay present in conversations or actions. She described it as an out-of-body experience where she could only hear the chatter in her own brain.
Dignity of discomfort
A concept from Sara's therapist, emphasizing that individuals should be allowed to experience their pain without others immediately trying to fix it. It suggests that being in pain is a dignified process that should be respected.
"Tight Tina"
Sara Bareilles' self-assigned name for her rigid, angry, and controlling inner tendency that emerges when things don't go her way. She uses this personification to playfully acknowledge and manage this aspect of herself, telling her to 'sit back and relax'.
Good-ish
A concept from professor Dolly Chug, which suggests that instead of viewing oneself as purely 'good,' embracing 'good-ish' allows for the flexibility to acknowledge unskillful actions or moments of being an 'a**hole' without threatening one's core identity.
Anger as a secondary emotion
The idea that anger often serves as a mask for more vulnerable underlying emotions, typically fear. It's described as an easier and less exposed reaction than admitting hurt or apprehension, making it a common hiding place for deeper feelings.
7 Questions Answered
She first experienced disassociation and acute anxiety around college graduation, facing the fear of adulthood and feeling overwhelmed by the idea of living for the rest of her life.
Her first best friend was talk therapy, which helped her articulate her internal state without apology, even with a 'bad' therapist, making her realize her struggles weren't unique.
She was introduced to it through a 21-day challenge during a life reset, but it became a consistent practice after a bad breakup when depression returned, and she realized she had to sit with and get to know her pain.
Both Sara Bareilles and Dan Harris agree that meditation does not kill creativity; instead, it can enhance it by turning down habitual rumination, allowing for new ideas and insights to emerge.
She experienced a 'horrific' increase in anxiety and a 'meltdown,' feeling claustrophobic and overwhelmed by the unknown, the racial justice conversations, and political divisions.
Sara finds it can be empowering to use her platform for issues she cares about, but it can also be a 'double-edged sword' due to pressure to constantly engage on social media, leading to fear of making mistakes or offending others.
She's deeply afraid of confrontation and sees anger as an indicator that something is wrong, but not always the most efficient emotion, often masking deeper fears or vulnerabilities.
21 Actionable Insights
1. Engage in Regular Talk Therapy
Make talk therapy a consistent part of your self-care routine, ideally weekly, to articulate your internal state and realize your struggles are not unique. This process helps externalize feelings and provides comfort.
2. Cultivate a Meditation Practice
Regularly practice meditation to sit with and get to know difficult emotions, balance emotional highs and lows, and improve your ability to bounce back from lows. This practice clarifies inner workings and can foster creativity.
3. Articulate Your Internal State
Express your internal state without fear, whether through journaling, conversation, or with a therapist, to externalize and understand your feelings. This helps you realize your experiences are common and can be liberating.
4. Practice Self-Compassion & Humor
Cultivate self-compassion by viewing your own flaws and unskillful moments with a sense of humor, perhaps by relabeling yourself as ‘good-ish.’ This provides flexibility and acceptance, rather than punishment.
5. Name Inner Difficult Parts Playfully
Give playful names to your difficult inner parts or ’noxious inner tendencies’ (like ‘Tight Tina’) and tell them to relax or step back. This helps you create distance and not be owned by them.
6. Allow Others Their Discomfort
Allow others the dignity of their own discomfort and pain instead of trying to fix their problems, recognizing that sometimes ‘fixing’ isn’t the real solution.
7. Be Vulnerable in Relationships
Be willing to show your ‘mess’ and vulnerability in intimate relationships, understanding that it’s an act of faith and crucial for deep connection.
8. Examine Anxiety for Root Causes
When experiencing anxiety, examine it for underlying unexpressed desires, wishes, or resentments that might be building. Anxiety often signals uncommunicated needs.
9. Create Dedicated Meditation Space
Carve out an intentional, dedicated space for your meditation practice, even if small, to help with consistency and set the tone for your day.
10. Practice Intermittent Meditation
Integrate short meditation moments throughout your day, even in unconventional places like a train, to frequently connect with your inner space and breath.
11. Avoid Anger on Social Media
Refrain from expressing anger on social media, as it can lead to negative reinforcement and regret, and doesn’t ‘feed the right wolf.’
12. Cultivate Forgiveness & Learning
Cultivate a capacity for forgiveness and create space for others to learn, even if it means making mistakes, as this is essential for moving forward in society and personal growth.
13. Use ‘Good News’ Social Media
Follow ‘good news’ social media accounts or watch lighthearted animal videos when feeling low. This provides lightheartedness and makes you feel good.
14. Appreciate Anger as Indicator
Appreciate anger as an indicator that something is wrong, but recognize it may not be the most efficient emotion and seek to move beyond it to a more constructive place.
15. Explore Anger’s Underlying Emotions
Explore anger to identify the primary emotion it might be covering, often fear, to understand and address the root cause.
16. Make Space for Creativity
Make space for creativity without judgment or expectation of outcome, keeping the creative channel open, as this gesture can foster new ideas.
17. Be Authentic in Activism
Ensure your engagement in activism, such as social media posts, is meaningful and authentic, rather than simply responding to external pressure.
18. Join a Meditation Community
Join a community of meditators, such as through an app challenge or live sessions, to cope with anxiety and normalize the experience.
19. Utilize Guided Meditations
Use guided meditations from apps or other resources to address specific issues like stress, anxiety, sleep, focus, or self-compassion.
20. Use Daily Meditation Reminders
Set and use daily meditation reminders to help you stay consistent and on track with your practice.
21. Be Open About Interior Life
Be open and honest about your interior life, including struggles, pain, vulnerability, and embarrassment, to help others feel less alone and foster connection.
7 Key Quotes
I'm a wet person, meaning that, like, I've always been really close to sadness and melancholy.
Sara Bareilles
Self-knowledge is always bad news.
Joseph Goldstein (recounted by Dan Harris)
We have to allow everyone the dignity of their own discomfort.
Sara Bareilles' therapist (recounted by Sara Bareilles)
Pain is so fertile. It craves being expressed.
Sara Bareilles
No, you're just half rotten like the rest of us.
Joseph Goldstein (recounted by Dan Harris)
It's just easier to be angry than it is to be hurt.
Sara Bareilles
Mara, I see you.
The Buddha (recounted by Joseph Goldstein, via Dan Harris)