The Dharma of Anxiety and Depression | Leslie Booker
Dan Harris and meditation teacher Leslie Booker candidly discuss their personal struggles with anxiety, depression, and ADHD, sharing practical, evidence-based techniques from modern science and ancient Buddhism for managing these common conditions. They also explore how mental health challenges manifest differently across gender and race.
Deep Dive Analysis
10 Topic Outline
Dan's Personal History with Anxiety and Depression
Leslie Booker's Personal History with Depression and ADHD
Parental Influence on Mental Health and Coping Mechanisms
The 'I'll Do It Myself' Mentality and Difficulty Receiving Help
Anxiety, Perfectionism, and Oppression
Mindfulness and Compromise in Managing Anxiety
Societal Shifts in Discussing Mental Health: Pros and Cons
Generational Differences in Mental Health and Work Ethic
ADHD's Impact on Daily Life and Relationships
Dedication of Merit in Buddhist Practice
5 Key Concepts
Masking Suffering
This refers to the act of hiding one's internal struggles with conditions like depression or anxiety from others, often presenting an outward appearance of being fine or even 'the party girl.' This can be particularly prevalent in individuals from historically oppressed groups who feel pressure to exceed expectations.
Below the Line
A concept from Brene Brown, 'below the line' describes a state of being caught in fear or anxiety, where one is dysregulated and unable to cope effectively. Conversely, 'above the line' signifies having fear and anxiety but being able to handle it and function.
Cognitive Load
This refers to the total amount of mental effort being used in working memory. In the context of the discussion, it highlights the immense mental burden faced by journalists covering traumatic events while also managing career pressures, or by individuals from oppressed groups who must constantly strive to prove themselves.
Weaponization of Therapy Speak
This is a downside of the increased cultural conversation around mental health, where therapeutic language or diagnoses are misused or manipulated, often to avoid accountability or to make others 'pay' for one's own unaddressed issues, rather than engaging in genuine self-reflection or seeking help.
Merit (Buddhist Concept)
In Buddhism, merit is a positive spiritual force cultivated through acts of goodness, compassion, and wisdom, such as sharing one's heart and practice with others. It is believed to grow only when shared out into the world, benefiting all beings.
8 Questions Answered
Talking openly about anxiety and depression helps to normalize and aerate these common conditions, offering practical, evidence-based techniques grounded in modern science and ancient Buddhism to work with them.
Dan experienced depression during major life transitions (childhood fear of Cold War, college, graduation) and anxiety, including panic attacks from age 14, which later manifested as career competition and being unpleasant or snapping when feeling 'below the line'.
Leslie experienced depression starting around her first period, often hiding out for days and using drugs/alcohol to cope. Her ADHD, diagnosed in college, led to academic struggles and a perception of being lazy, exacerbated later by a traumatic brain injury.
Children of anxious or struggling parents may learn to be overly self-reliant, feel unworthy of asking for help, or develop a deep sense of compassion for their parents' past struggles as they mature.
Leslie's anxiety often manifests as perfectionism, driven by the pressure to be 'better than dominant culture' and prove herself, a 'tax' paid by those who have historically been oppressed to succeed and pave the way for others.
While normalization is positive, downsides include 'marinating' in suffering without seeking solutions, and the 'weaponization of therapy speak,' where therapeutic language is used to avoid accountability or make others responsible for one's own unaddressed issues.
Younger generations are more likely to own their mental health needs, take mental health days, and set boundaries, contrasting with Gen Xers who often 'plowed through' difficulties, sometimes to their own detriment, and are now learning from younger staffers.
ADHD can lead to specific needs for environmental organization (e.g., specific fonts, clear spaces, accessible storage) that, if not understood or accommodated by neurotypical partners, can cause friction and lead to the ADHD individual making themselves 'smaller' to avoid conflict.
21 Actionable Insights
1. Seek Professional Mental Health Help
Seek professional help, such as seeing a therapist or ‘shrink,’ when dealing with mental health issues like depression. Professional guidance can provide support and strategies for managing conditions, as it did for Dan during his first bout of depression.
2. Practice Self-Compassion, No Shame
Avoid shaming yourself for experiencing anxiety, depression, or other mental health struggles. Self-compassion is a crucial part of dealing with these experiences effectively.
3. Use Mindfulness to Spot & Name
Cultivate mindfulness to identify mental health states (like anxiety or perfectionism) within yourself and, when appropriate, name them to others. Mindfulness allows for self-awareness and communication, which can lead to better management and support.
4. Prioritize Self-Preservation
Prioritize actions that support your self-preservation and mental health, even if they might lead to minor conflicts or require setting boundaries. Neglecting these needs due to fear of conflict can lead to long-term detriment to your well-being.
5. Embrace Teachable Moments
Approach difficult experiences, like relationship endings, as ’teachable moments’ from which to learn and grow. This mindset allows for personal growth and self-discovery, leading to improvements in self-preservation and mental health.
6. Recognize Mental Health Patterns
Pay attention to patterns in your mental health, noting when conditions like depression tend to recur, such as during ‘big transition moments.’ Recognizing these patterns can help you anticipate and potentially prepare for periods of vulnerability.
7. Identify “I’ll Do It Myself” Trigger
Recognize the phrase ‘forget it, I’ll just do it myself’ as a sign of dysregulation or being ‘below the line.’ This phrase indicates a ‘glitching’ state of fear or anxiety, signaling a need for self-care or a different approach.
8. Have Candid Mental Health Talks
Engage in candid conversations about anxiety and depression. Talking openly normalizes and ‘aerates’ these conditions, making them less overwhelming and allowing for the discovery of practical coping strategies.
9. Share Solutions, Not Just Struggles
When discussing mental health struggles, also share the solutions or strategies you’ve used to manage them. This prevents ‘marinating’ in the problem, avoids potential ‘contagion,’ and provides actionable guidance to others.
10. Connect In-Person, Phone-Free
Spend time with other people in the same room without phones. This is an extraordinarily powerful way to reduce fear and sadness, supported by an enormous amount of science.
11. Practice Receiving Help
Practice saying ‘yes, thank you’ when help or kindness is offered to you. This helps overcome the difficulty of receiving and not wanting to be a burden, fostering the ability to accept support.
12. Name Perfectionism, Propose Compromise
When perfectionism or anxiety kicks in, use mindfulness to recognize and name it, then propose a compromise to others. This manages internal struggles while seeking a middle ground in interactions.
13. Disclose Needs, Set Structures
Be direct and transparent about your mental health conditions and the structures you need to be successful, especially in professional settings or with your team. This transparency can lift a huge burden and help create necessary support systems.
14. Consider Medication for Mental Health
Explore medication as a tool for managing mental health conditions. It can be helpful for conditions like panic attacks, as shared by Dan’s personal experience.
15. Practice Meditation Regularly
Engage in meditation practices, potentially including guided meditations or live sessions. Meditation is a practice found helpful for dealing with anxiety and depression, supporting both mind and body.
16. Avoid Hiding, Self-Medicating
Do not hide your struggles or self-medicate with drugs and alcohol. Hiding makes problems bigger, and self-medication can worsen conditions like depression.
17. Adapt Environment for Neurotype
Adapt your living environment to better suit your neurotype, such as installing pull-out shelves for deep cabinets if you have ADHD. Making small adjustments can significantly support self-preservation and mental health.
18. Remove Environmental Triggers
Identify specific environmental triggers or discomforts and remove them from your personal space. Eliminating small irritants can create a more spacious and open feeling, benefiting mental ease.
19. Customize Digital Settings for Clarity
Customize digital settings, like font preferences, to enhance clarity and ease of use if you have specific neurotype needs. Small adjustments can make daily tasks easier and reduce cognitive load.
20. Learn From Younger Generations
Be open to learning from younger generations, particularly regarding work-life balance and self-care. They often have valuable insights into being a ‘human being’ rather than just a worker.
21. Dedicate Merit to Others
Dedicate the ‘merit’ (goodness cultivated from positive experiences) of your learning and practice to others suffering from mental health issues. This Buddhist practice helps cultivate compassion and extends positive impact.
5 Key Quotes
I'm assuming unless I hit full enlightenment in this lifetime that I'm going to be dealing with this all the way to the lip of the grave.
Dan Harris
As we try to hide things, they actually get bigger.
Leslie Booker
I was explicitly taught as a kid that you have to be better than dominant culture.
Leslie Booker
There is a tax that I pay, that you don't pay. As a black woman, I have to be better because I am the first. And therefore everybody who comes after me, there may be nobody who comes after me if I fuck this up.
Friend of Leslie Booker (quoted by Dan Harris)
If everything is the way that I need it to be, I am so chill.
Leslie Booker
1 Protocols
Managing Perfectionism and Anxiety in Work Situations
Leslie Booker and Dan Harris- Recognize when perfectionism or anxiety is kicking in.
- Name what is happening to yourself.
- Propose a compromise to those around you, especially if you are in a position of leadership or feel safe to do so.