The Zen Priest with an MBA, Marc Lesser
Marc Lesser, a Zen priest and MBA, discusses integrating mindfulness into work and life, drawing lessons from Google and a Zen monastery kitchen. He shares seven practices for mindful leadership, emphasizing self-awareness, compassion, and simplifying work.
Deep Dive Analysis
19 Topic Outline
Marc Lesser's Journey into Meditation and Zen Practice
Defining Self-Actualization and Going Beyond Yourself
Marc's 10 Years as a Zen Monk and the Love of Work
The Tension Between Contemplation and Business Goals
Bringing Humanness and Emotional Intelligence into Work
Marc Lesser's Role in Google's Search Inside Yourself Program
Introduction to The Seven Practices of a Mindful Leader
Practice 1: Love the Work (of Self-Discovery)
Understanding Power in a Positive Context
Practice 2: Do the Work (Daily Meditation Practice)
Practice 3: Don't Be an Expert (Beginner's Mind)
Practice 4: Connect to Your Own Pain
Practice 5: Connect to the Pain of Others
Practice 6: Depend on Others (Collaboration and Psychological Safety)
Practice 7: Keep Making It Simpler (Avoiding Busyness)
Lessons from Workplace Culture and the Me Too Era
Listener Questions: In-Person vs. App Meditation
Listener Questions: Dealing with Thoughts During Meditation
Listener Questions: Levels of Progress in Meditation Practice
9 Key Concepts
Self-Actualization
As defined by Abraham Maslow, it refers to a high level of emotional intelligence, being fully aligned as a human, comfortable in one's own skin, and having good quality, transparent, loving relationships. It means fully feeling emotions without being owned by them, or having a high mindfulness quotient.
Going Beyond Yourself
This concept involves genuinely caring about other people and having a sense of connectedness or belonging to the earth, rather than being solely focused on personal gain or achievement. It implies a radical sense of safety and not needing anything in the present moment.
Humanness in the Workplace
This refers to bringing emotional intelligence and self-awareness into professional settings. It involves understanding one's own natural tendencies and proclivities, especially in difficult or high-pressure situations, and finding skillful ways to work with them rather than pretending they don't exist or feeling like a victim.
Love the Work
This first practice of a mindful leader means falling in love with the work of meditation, mindfulness, and self-discovery, rather than just loving a particular job. It's about appreciating being alive and understanding oneself as a human being, even in a job one might dislike.
Do the Work
The second practice emphasizes the necessity of having a daily meditation practice. It distinguishes between 'dedicated practice' (stepping out of daily life for meditation or journaling) and 'integrated practice' (bringing mindfulness into daily relationships and work activities).
Don't Be an Expert
This practice encourages cultivating a 'beginner's mind,' a Zen concept where one approaches situations with openness and curiosity, recognizing that there are always new possibilities. While expertise is valued in technical skills, in relationships and mindfulness, a beginner's mind fosters flexibility and continuous learning.
Power (Positive Sense)
Beyond the negative connotation of bending others to one's will, positive power is the ability to self-actualize and influence others in a wholesome way. It involves seeing more reality, not being caught by self-told stories, and helping people be more themselves.
Psychological Safety
A concept identified by Google's 'Project Aristotle' as crucial for successful teams, it refers to an environment where team members feel comfortable speaking up, sharing ideas, and taking risks without fear of embarrassment or punishment. It fosters open communication and equal participation.
Mental Noting
A meditation technique where one uses a soft, internal mental label (e.g., 'thinking,' 'anger') to acknowledge distractions or experiences during practice. This skillful use of thinking helps orient one back to direct experience and can be applied in daily life to create space before reacting.
13 Questions Answered
Self-actualization, according to Maslow, is a high level of emotional intelligence, being fully aligned as a human, comfortable in one's own skin, and having good quality, transparent, loving relationships. It means fully feeling emotions but not being owned by them.
Going beyond oneself involves genuinely caring about other people, having a sense of connectedness and belonging to the earth, and not being solely caught up in personal achievement or what's good or bad for oneself.
Integrating meditation and work helps address the widespread disengagement and unhappiness people feel in their jobs. It brings humanness, self-awareness, and contemplative practices into the workplace, which can lead to healthier, more dynamic, and even more productive environments.
'Love the Work' means falling in love with the work of self-discovery, self-awareness, and personal growth through mindfulness, rather than just loving the specific job or role one performs. This work can be done in any job, even one that is disliked.
'Do the Work' emphasizes the importance of having a regular, daily meditation practice. It involves both 'dedicated practice' (formal meditation, journaling) and 'integrated practice' (applying mindfulness in daily life, relationships, and work).
'Don't Be an Expert' encourages cultivating a 'beginner's mind' in relationships and mindfulness, recognizing that there are always new possibilities and that no one is truly an expert in human interactions or inner experience. This fosters flexibility and continuous learning.
'Connect to Your Own Pain' means not pushing away what is difficult or uncomfortable in life, but rather turning towards it. It acknowledges that being human is a tough gig, subject to old age, sickness, and death, and connecting to this shared difficulty is part of our common humanity.
'Connect to the Pain of Others' involves demonstrating empathy and recognizing the common humanity in others' suffering. Research suggests that as people gain more responsibility in work, they often show less empathy, making this practice crucial for mindful leadership.
'Depend on Others' highlights the importance of collaboration and interdependence in modern workplaces, where most tasks are project-based and involve diverse teams. It emphasizes the need for psychological safety, where people feel comfortable speaking up and contributing equally.
'Keep Making It Simpler' encourages focusing on what truly matters, avoiding the 'religion of busyness,' and cultivating spaciousness. It involves taking moments to relax and check in with oneself during a busy day, especially during transitions between work and home life.
In-person meditation teaching is incredibly powerful and optimal if one has access to a great teacher and the time to attend classes. However, app-based or self-guided practices can coexist and are valuable for those without easy access to in-person instruction.
It's normal to think a lot during meditation, and one should not beat oneself up for it. The practice is to notice when the mind wanders, acknowledge the thoughts (perhaps with a soft mental note), and then gently return attention to the object of meditation, such as the breath.
Over time, one can expect significant improvement in skills like focus, self-regulation, and the ability to work with one's mind, even if progress is a wavy, bumpy line rather than a continuous upward trajectory. This gradual improvement leads to becoming a better, happier, and calmer human being.
22 Actionable Insights
1. Cultivate Self-Actualization
Develop high emotional intelligence by becoming comfortable with your emotions without being owned by them, and foster transparent, loving relationships.
2. Embrace ‘Knowing & Going Beyond’
Practice ‘knowing yourself and going beyond yourself’ by genuinely caring for others, fostering a sense of belonging to the world, and cultivating a radical sense of safety and contentment in the present moment.
3. Love the Work of Waking Up
Cultivate a deep appreciation for the ‘work’ of self-discovery, mindfulness, and waking up to life by engaging in practices like meditation retreats, daily sitting, reading, and listening to relevant content. This also involves appreciating even the difficult and ornery aspects of life.
4. Establish Daily Meditation Practice
Implement a consistent daily meditation practice (dedicated practice) and consciously integrate its principles into all aspects of your daily life, relationships, and work (integrated practice).
5. Adopt a Beginner’s Mind
Approach relationships and mindfulness practice with openness and curiosity, recognizing that true expertise involves continuous learning and flexibility rather than fixed knowledge.
6. Connect to Your Own Pain
Practice connecting to your own pain and difficulties, rather than pushing them away, by acknowledging challenges, unmet desires, and the inherent hardships of being human as part of your common humanity.
7. Connect to Others’ Pain
Actively counter the tendency to reduce empathy as responsibility increases by consciously connecting with the common humanity and pain of others, especially in leadership roles.
8. Embrace Interdependence & Collaboration
Recognize that modern work demands collaboration and actively depend on others, fostering psychological safety where everyone feels comfortable contributing equally.
9. Simplify & Cultivate Spaciousness
Combat the ‘religion of busyness’ by consciously simplifying your approach, focusing on what truly matters, and integrating moments of spaciousness into your day with intentional breaths, especially during transitions.
10. Reframe Distraction as Victory
During meditation, reframe noticing your mind wandering not as a failure, but as a victory, because this awareness is the essential practice of becoming less owned by your inner life.
11. View Work as Advanced Practice
Approach challenging, high-pressure work situations as advanced practice opportunities to learn about yourself, cultivate emotional intelligence, and develop skillful ways to work with your natural tendencies.
12. Foster Humanness in Workplaces
Promote emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and good communication skills in the workplace to create a healthier, more dynamic environment that also improves business outcomes.
13. Evaluate Personal & Career Alignment
Guide your decisions toward a balanced and fulfilling path by regularly asking three core questions: ‘Where can I have the most positive impact?’, ‘What do I most love doing?’, and ‘What sustains me financially?’.
14. Cultivate Psychological Safety
Ensure all team members feel comfortable speaking up and contributing equally, preventing any single person from dominating discussions, to foster a psychologically safe environment.
15. Practice Mental Noting
Use a soft mental whisper (e.g., ‘anger,’ ’thinking’) during meditation or difficult interactions to orient yourself toward direct experience, which can help you refrain from reactive speech and make you less likely to say something you regret.
16. Assess Meditation Progress
Regularly evaluate your meditation journey by asking Joseph Goldstein’s 10 questions, such as whether you are less reactive or more aware of your wandering mind, to track your development over time.
17. Notice and Address Rushing
Cultivate awareness of rushing in daily life, recognizing it as feedback that you are ahead of yourself, and use this noticing as an opportunity to take a breath and settle back into your body.
18. Seek In-Person Meditation Teaching
Opt for in-person meditation teaching if accessible, as it offers immense value and is an optimal way to learn, while also integrating self-guided or app-based practices into your routine.
19. Experiment with Mental Dump
Try writing down thoughts before meditation to clear your mind, but be prepared for thoughts to still arise and practice noticing them without judgment, then returning to your meditation object.
20. Use ‘Letting Go of Outcome’
Utilize the ‘Letting Go of the Outcome’ meditation to reduce fixation on getting your way and cultivate openness, particularly in work situations.
21. Provide Detailed Feedback
Offer detailed feedback to organizations or projects you care about, as this input is meaningful and incredibly helpful for their continuous improvement.
22. Re-examine Gendered Assumptions
Critically re-examine assumptions about how we treat each other, especially regarding gender dynamics in the workplace, and recognize the ongoing work needed to appreciate and support all individuals.
8 Key Quotes
To fully feel your emotions but not to be owned by them.
Marc Lesser
Knowing yourself and going beyond yourself.
Marc Lesser
You get sick of yourself. You get completely sick of the thing that we call I and me and your own story.
Marc Lesser
There's a natural tension that exists between, right, meditation practice, contemplative practice, right, the practice of being – more beingness, and the practice of getting stuff done, of getting things done in the world.
Marc Lesser
The Dalai Lama just moved into your house.
Jon Kabat-Zinn (quoted by Dan Harris)
In the expert's mind, there are very few possibilities, right. In the beginner's mind, there are many possibilities.
Suzuki Roshi (quoted by Marc Lesser)
The moment you notice you've become distracted, that is not a failure. That's a victory.
Dan Harris
10%, like any good investment compounds annually.
Dan Harris
1 Protocols
Joseph Goldstein's Questions to Assess Meditation Progress
Joseph Goldstein (quoted by Dan Harris)- Are you less immediately reactive to difficult or stressful situations, both in meditation and in life?
- Over time, are you generally becoming aware of the wandering mind more quickly in the sittings?
- In daily life, the feeling of rushing is a good feedback that we're ahead of ourselves, not being settled back in our bodies. Do you find that you're rushing less often or becoming aware of it more quickly?
- Is there more awareness with your speech, perhaps refraining a little more frequently from angry or judgmental speech?
- Is there a little more openness in being with other people, more willing to listen?
- Are you becoming a little more familiar with the qualities of calm and concentration in the practice?
- Are you using the tool of mental noting? Is it becoming a little more continuous, at least for periods of time? Is the tone of the note becoming softer?
- Is there a little more ease in being with whatever arises in your meditation practice, simply noting it for what it is?
- Is it a little easier to sit longer?
- Are you becoming somewhat more aware of the changing nature of all experience and holding onto things a little less?