Tripping Out with a Legend: Jon Kabat-Zinn on Pain vs. Suffering, Rethinking Your Anxiety, and the Buddha's Teaching in a Single Sentence

Mar 29, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Jon Kabat-Zinn, Ph.D., Professor of Medicine emeritus at UMass Medical School, discusses the origins of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) for pain relief, differentiating pain from suffering, and the accessibility of awareness. He emphasizes meditation as a "love affair" and a path to understanding our true nature beyond limiting narratives.

At a Glance
14 Insights
44m 36s Duration
12 Topics
7 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Origins of MBSR and its purpose for pain relief

Differentiating between physical pain and suffering

The nature and accessibility of human awareness

Meditation as a love affair, not self-improvement

The Buddha's core teaching on clinging to self

Infusing wonder and awe into meditation practice

Understanding the 'mutual monarch' and self-identity

Overcoming dualism, tribalism, and doing no harm

Embracing the present moment and the invitation to 'die now'

Achieving equanimity and relating wisely to anxiety

Jon Kabat-Zinn's definition of healing

Transformation through MBSR and embodied awareness

Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)

A secular way of teaching Buddhist meditation, founded in 1979 at the UMass Medical Center. It was developed to offer life skills for self-regulation to patients with chronic pain and other conditions who were falling through the cracks of the healthcare system, by helping them differentiate between pain and suffering.

Pain vs. Suffering

Pain refers to the raw physical sensation or injury, while suffering encompasses the emotional and cognitive dimensions that can inflame and exacerbate that physical pain. MBSR teaches individuals to differentiate these, allowing them to live more effectively with conditions that may not disappear.

Awareness

An inherent human superpower, larger than thought, that everyone is born with. The practice of meditation is not about cultivating awareness itself, but optimizing access to it, allowing for deep inquiry into the nature of one's being beyond surface-level narratives and stories.

Meditation as a Love Affair

A perspective on meditation where it's not seen as a self-improvement strategy or a chore, but rather a joyful giving over to the domain of being, outside of time. This approach recognizes a hidden dimension of experience that is inhabitable and fosters a sense of profound interconnectedness.

No Self / Emptiness of Self

The understanding that there is no fixed 'self' in the way we usually conceive of 'I, me, and mine.' This concept suggests that our narratives about who we are are often surface glimpses and inaccurate reads, and recognizing their emptiness can liberate us from delusion, clinging, greed, and aversion.

Equanimity

A powerful and wise state of being where one recognizes that 'things are as they are.' It allows individuals to act from a place of boundless spaciousness, even when faced with challenging emotions like anxiety, without taking them personally or trying to get rid of them.

Healing (Jon Kabat-Zinn's Definition)

Healing is defined not as fixing, curing, or returning to a previous state, but as 'coming to terms with things as they are.' This process involves learning, growing, and transforming one's relationship to current conditions, even in the presence of pain or anxiety.

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What was the original purpose of Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR)?

MBSR was created in 1979 at the UMass Medical Center to help patients with chronic pain and other conditions who were not finding full satisfaction with conventional medical treatments, teaching them life skills for self-regulation and coping with suffering.

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How does meditation help with pain?

Meditation helps individuals differentiate between physical pain and the emotional and cognitive dimensions of suffering that can exacerbate it, allowing them to learn how to live with conditions that may not magically disappear.

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How can we access our inherent awareness through meditation?

Meditation optimizes access to our awareness by using attention as a doorway. It involves stepping out of the 'story of me' and inhabiting the domain of full being, rather than getting caught in thoughts and narratives.

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What is the core teaching of the Buddha, according to Jon Kabat-Zinn?

The Buddha's entire teaching can be encapsulated in one sentence: 'Nothing is to be clung to as I, me, or mine,' highlighting that self-identification and clinging are the source of delusion, wanting, greed, hatred, and aversion.

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How can one infuse wonder and inspiration into their meditation practice?

By recognizing the endless miracles and wonders in everyday life, such as the preciousness of each breath, and approaching meditation not as a self-improvement strategy but as a 'love affair' with the domain of being.

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What does 'mutual monarch' mean in Emily Dickinson's poem?

It refers to our original nature or Buddha nature, suggesting that there was never a true separation between 'me' and 'myself,' and that we are inherently in charge, but often abdicate parts of ourselves by believing external projections.

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How should one approach anxiety during meditation?

View anxiety not as 'my anxiety' but as a weather pattern in the mind. Welcome it as an object of meditation, allowing it to do its thing without trying to get rid of it, which can offer new degrees of freedom in working with it.

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What is Jon Kabat-Zinn's definition of healing?

Healing is not about fixing, curing, or making things return to how they used to be, but rather about coming to terms with things as they are, which involves learning, growing, and transforming one's relationship to current conditions.

1. Don’t Cling to ‘I, Me, Mine’

Adopt the Buddha’s core teaching: ’nothing is to be clung to as I, me, or mine.’ This practice addresses the root of delusion, wanting, greed, hatred, and aversion, which are fundamental sources of suffering.

2. Inquire Beyond Your Narrative

Deeply inquire into the nature of your being, questioning the stories you tell yourself about ‘who the me is’ and how your life is defined. Learn to inhabit the domain of full being rather than getting caught in limiting thoughts and narratives.

3. Embrace Healing as Acceptance

Redefine healing not as fixing or curing things back to how they were, but as ‘coming to terms with things as they are.’ This mindset allows for peace and freedom even when circumstances cannot be changed.

4. Meditate as a Love Affair

Approach formal meditation not as a chore or a self-improvement strategy, but as a ’love affair.’ Give yourself over to the domain of being outside of time to foster a sustainable and transformative practice.

5. Differentiate Pain from Suffering

Learn to distinguish between physical pain (raw sensation) and the suffering that arises from emotional and cognitive reactions to it. Recognizing this difference can attenuate pain by reducing its emotional and cognitive dimensions.

6. Relate to Anxiety Impersonally

View anxiety as an impersonal ‘weather pattern in the mind’ rather than ‘my anxiety.’ Welcome it as an object of meditation, allowing it to work itself out like a storm without trying to get rid of it or pursue it, which offers new degrees of freedom.

7. Awaken to the Present Moment

Practice ‘dying now’ to the past and future, as in the corpse pose, to fully awaken to the present. Let go of internal conflict and the pursuit of a ‘perfect life,’ recognizing the inherent miracle of your current existence.

8. Live by ‘First Do No Harm’

Embody the Hippocratic Oath of ‘first do no harm’ in all your interactions. Cultivate awareness, mindfulness, and heartfulness to recognize if you are causing harm, even subtly, and take responsibility.

9. Apologize and Learn from Harm

If you realize you’ve caused harm, offer a sincere apology and learn from the experience. This helps prevent repeating hurtful behaviors when triggered by defensiveness or other emotions.

10. Stand on Your Own Humanity

Avoid defining yourself solely by the love or projections of others, whether positive or negative. Learn to stand on your own in your full humanity, recognizing that relying on external validation is unstable.

11. Give Daily Attention to Being

Recognize that the ‘domain of being’ requires daily attention, not just formal meditation. Embrace all daily activities—from greeting loved ones to what you say—with natural, uncontrived awareness.

12. Infuse Wonder into Practice

To infuse wonder into your meditation, remember the preciousness of each breath, as if you were deprived of it. This helps recognize the endless miracles and wonders of existence.

13. Avoid Enlightenment Narratives

Do not build grand stories about spiritual enlightenment. Such narratives can become a prison, giving seriously wrong ideas about the practice and hindering genuine understanding.

14. Focus on What You Can Do

Concentrate your efforts on what you can genuinely do and contribute. Avoid beating yourself up or engaging in self-criticism for things that are beyond your control.

Open your mouth and you're wrong.

Sonsan

Nothing is to be clung to as I, me, or mine.

The Buddha

Me, from myself, to banish, had I art, impregnable my fortress unto all heart. But since myself assault me, how have I peace, except by subjugating consciousness? And since we're mutual monarch, me and myself, how this be, except by abdication, me of me.

Emily Dickinson

First do no harm.

Hippocratic Oath

You don't want to, just before you die, wake up and realize that you hadn't lived, that you were living in the story of me. And it was wrong. It wasn't a complete story. It wasn't true. But it was a prison. And now you die.

Jon Kabat-Zinn

The hardest of all the yoga poses is the corpse pose, where you're just lying on your back. Okay? Because the real invitation, why do they call it the corpse pose? Isn't that a little on the maudlin side? Well, no, it's not. It's actually an incredible gift. The invitation is, like, die now. Die now to, say, the future. Die now to the past. And then wake up into the present.

Jon Kabat-Zinn

Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) Program

Jon Kabat-Zinn
  1. Attend classes once a week for eight weeks.
  2. Learn meditative practices to self-regulate at the level of body, mind, and heart.
  3. Learn to differentiate between physical pain and its emotional/cognitive suffering dimensions.
  4. Cultivate awareness and attention to inhabit the domain of full being, rather than getting caught in thoughts and narratives.
  5. Engage in deep inquiry into the nature of who you actually are.

Corpse Pose (Savasana) as a Meditation

Jon Kabat-Zinn
  1. Lie down on your back, as if in a coffin.
  2. Intentionally 'die now' to the future, letting go of future concerns.
  3. Intentionally 'die now' to the past, releasing past regrets or memories.
  4. Wake up into the present moment, fully inhabiting it.
  5. Die to internal warfare and the pursuit of a 'perfect life,' recognizing the miracle of the present.
1979
Year MBSR Clinic was founded At the University of Massachusetts Medical Center
10-15%
Percentage of patients physicians felt they actually helped In 1979, prompting the creation of MBSR
95-100%
Target percentage of people MBSR aims to reach Compared to 5-10% in traditional meditation centers
40 years
Approximate duration of the Buddha's teaching repertoire Which he claimed could be encapsulated in one sentence
7 billion
Current human population on the planet Contrasted with maybe a million human beings in the past
84,000
Number of main yoga poses With 10 variations on each
16 years old
Age Ramana Maharshi practiced 'dying now' Laying down like in a coffin to wake up to the present
8 weeks
Duration of the MBSR program With classes held once a week
2.5 hours
Duration of each MBSR class Held once a week for eight weeks