What Science and Buddhism Say About How to Regulate Your Own Nervous System | Deb Dana & Kaira Jewel Lingo
Guests Deb Dana (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) and Kaira Jewel Lingo (Dharma teacher, former nun) discuss Polyvagal Theory and Buddhist psychology. They explore how to become active operators of our nervous systems, co-regulate with others, and mindfully navigate emotions, including handling annoyances and cultivating well-being.
Deep Dive Analysis
13 Topic Outline
Introduction to Polyvagal Theory and Co-regulation
Deb Dana's Primer on Polyvagal Theory Basics
Buddhist Perspective: Store Consciousness and Mind as Gardener
Co-regulation: Impact of Our Nervous System on Others
Handling Mild Annoyances and Maintaining Regulation
Self-Compassion and Learning from Mistakes
Navigating Difficult States and Unavoidable Suffering
Cultivating Wholesome Seeds and Wise Effort
The Power of Micro-Moments and Glimmers
Distinguishing Suppression from Mindful Engagement with Pain
The Role of Collective Regulation and Support Systems
Action and Service as Antidotes to Anxiety
Addressing the Dorsal Vagal State (Shutdown)
9 Key Concepts
Polyvagal Theory
A theory of the autonomic nervous system, explaining how our biology drives protection and connection through three states: ventral (safety/connection), sympathetic (fight/flight), and dorsal vagal (collapse/shutdown). It operates through neuroception, hierarchy, and co-regulation.
Neuroception
The nervous system's unconscious process of taking in information from inside the body, the environment, and between people to determine if a situation is safe. This happens without the benefit of the thinking parts of our brain, as it originates in the brainstem.
Hierarchy (Nervous System States)
The predictable order in which the nervous system moves through three states: ventral (safety/connection), sympathetic (fight/flight), and dorsal vagal (disconnection/collapse). To return from the dorsal state, one must first come through some mobilizing energy of the sympathetic state.
Co-regulation
A biological imperative where nervous systems find connection and feel safe with each other, allowing individuals to be fully present and well. It is a biological experience of our nervous systems impacting each other, sending out signals of welcome or warning.
Store Consciousness (Buddhist Psychology)
A concept from Buddhist psychology representing the container of all potential 'seeds' or tendencies (wholesome, unwholesome, indeterminate) that can arise in our mind consciousness. It operates efficiently on automatic pilot and connects us to a collective consciousness, holding ancestral experiences.
Mind Consciousness as Gardener
The function of mind consciousness to track what's arising and selectively 'water' seeds in store consciousness. This allows individuals to choose which seeds to nourish (e.g., peace, calm) and how to manage unwholesome ones, thereby shaping their inner experience.
Second Arrow (Buddhism)
A Buddhist concept describing the additional, self-inflicted suffering that arises from our reactions to initial, unavoidable pain. It refers to the mental stories, self-blame, or rumination we add on top of a difficult experience.
Glimmers
Micro-moments of ventral (safety/connection) that are all around us, waiting to be noticed. These small instances of peace, gratitude, or connection, when brought to awareness, help to strengthen the pathways back to ventral regulation.
Changing the Peg (Buddhism)
A technique for dealing with painful states that are more workable, by simply changing the channel or redirecting attention. This is not suppression, but a skillful way to shift a mind state by engaging with a different activity or thought.
13 Questions Answered
Polyvagal Theory explains how our autonomic nervous system regulates our states of protection and connection, moving through three predictable states: ventral (safety), sympathetic (fight/flight), and dorsal vagal (shutdown).
Our nervous system uses 'neuroception' to unconsciously listen for cues of safety or danger from within our bodies, the environment, and in interactions with others, without involving our conscious brain.
The three states are ventral (optimal state of calm, connection, and engagement), sympathetic (activated state of fight or flight, associated with anger and anxiety), and dorsal vagal (state of disconnection, collapse, and shutdown).
We can learn to identify our current nervous system state and use various pathways like movement, breath, mindfulness, music, or art to anchor ourselves in the ventral state. The more we practice these actions, the easier it becomes.
Buddhist psychology's concept of 'store consciousness' (a container of all potential 'seeds' or tendencies) aligns with the idea of strengthening pathways to ventral. 'Mind consciousness' acts as a gardener, choosing which seeds to nourish, similar to actively regulating the nervous system.
Our nervous systems are inextricably linked and constantly impact each other through 'neuroception.' Co-regulation is a biological imperative where our nervous systems find connection and safety with others, allowing us to be present and engage.
By cultivating a 'critical mass of ventral' (regulated enough state), we send out cues of safety to those around us. Conversely, being anxious or angry sends warning signals, while being in a dorsal state can be confusing to others.
Acknowledge and accept the frustration without externalizing it onto others. Track what's happening in your body and mind, and aim for 'regulated enough' rather than 'superventral.' This provides a teaching moment for yourself and those around you.
Recognize the 'shoulds' and self-blame as unhelpful. Understand that mistakes are opportunities for learning and growth, not reasons for self-recrimination. Cultivate stillness to observe these patterns and replace self-judgment with kindness and acceptance.
No, the purpose of practice is not to transcend all difficult states, but to become more skillful in meeting them. It's about learning how to be with pain and difficult emotions without seeing them as a problem, but as part of being human.
These are small, brief instances of peace, gratitude, or connection that are available all around us. Noticing and appreciating these micro-moments helps to strengthen the pathways to ventral regulation, even amidst ongoing suffering.
There are two main ways: 'changing the peg' by redirecting attention to something else if the state is manageable, or 'giving it space' by mindfully recognizing, allowing, investigating, and nurturing the emotion, like holding a crying baby.
The antidote to dorsal is knowing you are not alone, lost, or unseen. It requires the presence of a regulated, trusted human who can simply 'be with' you without trying to fix or demand anything, offering reassurance and connection.
19 Actionable Insights
1. Understand Nervous System States
Learn to identify your nervous system’s current state (ventral for safety/connection, sympathetic for fight/flight, dorsal for shutdown) to actively move from suboptimal states to more regulated ones.
2. Become an Active Nervous System Operator
Actively learn to spot your nervous system’s current state and implement strategies to shift it from suboptimal (fight/flight, shutdown) to optimal (calm, connected) states.
3. Mind as a Gardener of Consciousness
Utilize your ‘mind consciousness’ as a gardener to selectively nurture ‘wholesome seeds’ (positive tendencies) and avoid watering ‘unwholesome seeds’ (negative tendencies) within your ‘store consciousness’.
4. Cultivate Wholesome Seeds Daily
Practice ‘wise diligence’ by actively bringing up wholesome seeds (e.g., generosity, gratitude), sustaining them in your mind, avoiding triggers for unwholesome seeds, and quickly addressing suffering with mindfulness.
5. Strengthen Ventral Pathways
Consistently engage in actions that bring you to a ventral (calm, connected) state, as repeated practice strengthens the neural pathways, making it easier and quicker to return to regulation.
6. Send Cues of Safety to Others
When in a regulated, ventral state, intentionally offer kindness, smiles, and greetings to people around you, as your calm nervous system sends out cues of safety that positively impact others’ neuroception.
7. Accept Annoyance, Avoid Fighting It
When faced with frustrating or annoying situations, practice acceptance by acknowledging your feelings and the reality of the situation, rather than fighting it, to prevent further personal and interpersonal dysregulation.
8. Eliminate Self-Critical ‘Shoulds’
Become aware of and challenge self-critical ‘should’ statements, recognizing they often lead to self-blame and dysregulation; instead, practice self-compassion and acknowledge you are doing your best.
9. Embrace Impermanence of Difficulties
Understand that difficult states and emotions are impermanent and a natural part of being human; practice meeting them with available resources rather than panicking or viewing them as a permanent problem.
10. Prevent ‘Second Arrow’ Suffering
Cultivate skills to anchor in ventral and mindfully respond to pain, thereby avoiding the ‘second arrow’ of unnecessary suffering that comes from adding judgment or negative stories to unavoidable difficulties.
11. Care for Painful States Mindfully
For manageable difficult states, ‘change the peg’ by shifting your focus or activity; for strong emotions, use the RAIN practice (Recognize, Allow, Investigate, Nurture) to mindfully embrace and care for the emotion without suppression.
12. Cultivate Mindfulness Regularly
Engage in regular mindful practices (e.g., mindful eating, walking, breathing) to strengthen your ‘seed of mindfulness’ in ‘store consciousness,’ making it more accessible, quicker to arise, and longer-lasting when difficulties occur.
13. Seek ‘Glimmers’ of Ventral
Actively look for ‘glimmers’ – micro moments of peace, gratitude, or connection in your daily life – to remind yourself that ventral states are always accessible, even amidst suffering, and to nourish those wholesome seeds.
14. Action Absorbs Anxiety
When experiencing anxiety or despair, engage in acts of service or kindness towards others, as taking action can absorb anxiety and shift your nervous system into a more regulated, ventral state.
15. Honor Your Nervous System’s ‘No’
Pay attention to your nervous system’s emphatic ’no’ signals (e.g., intense claustrophobia, physical illness) and honor them by not powering through overwhelming situations, instead creating conditions for a safer return or alternative approach.
16. Leverage Co-regulation for Support
Actively seek out supportive relationships, therapeutic connections, or group practices to ‘borrow’ the strength, resilience, and regulation of others’ nervous systems when your own capacity is low.
17. Antidote to Dorsal: Regulated Presence
If you or someone else is in a deep dorsal (shutdown/despair) state, the most crucial antidote is the non-demanding, regulated presence of a caring human who offers reassurance of not being alone and being seen.
18. Self-Regulate Mild Dorsal States
For less intense dorsal (shutdown) states, gently reintroduce energy by engaging in subtle movement, listening to music, or reaching out to a friend via text to counteract feelings of isolation and gently bring back regulation.
19. Repair After Dysregulation
After experiencing dysregulation, make an intention to offer kindness and repair connections with others when you return to a regulated, ventral state, as you cannot repair with all nervous systems you impacted while dysregulated.
8 Key Quotes
It's our nervous system, it's that body experience that is taking in the information and then feeding that information to the brain. And then the brain makes a story to make sense of what's happening in the body.
Deb Dana
Our peace is contagious, our stress is contagious, because our store consciousness, we all have the same seeds. So one of us connecting with a seed can touch off that same seed in someone else because we have these mirror neurons.
Kyra Jewel Lingo
Superventral is not necessary... I call it a critical massive ventral. That's all you need, a critical massive ventral.
Deb Dana
Anytime we use should, we're going into, did you say dorsal or sympathetic?
Kyra Jewel Lingo
The mistakes we make, they are there so that we can learn from them. It's not that we shouldn't have ever made them because how would we grow?
Kyra Jewel Lingo
Well-being isn't no suffering. You can be practicing well-being. You can be, I would say, Deb, in ventral and be experiencing difficulty, but it's your relationship to it that matters.
Kyra Jewel Lingo
Action absorbs anxiety.
Kyra Jewel Lingo
The antidote to dorsal is knowing I'm not alone, I'm not lost, I'm seen, right?
Deb Dana
3 Protocols
Wise Diligence / Wise Effort (Buddhist Practice)
Kyra Jewel Lingo- Bring up wholesome seeds (e.g., gratitude, generosity, love, forgiveness, acceptance, friendship).
- Keep wholesome seeds in mind as long as possible, letting them be in consciousness to strengthen them.
- Avoid touching off unwholesome seeds by looking at your life and recognizing situations or people that tend to trigger them.
- If unwholesome seeds arise, do not keep them in your mind for any second longer than necessary; take care of them with mindfulness.
Caring for Painful States (Two Ways)
Kyra Jewel Lingo- **Changing the Peg**: For workable mind states, simply change the channel by doing something else (e.g., going for a walk when grumpy, helping another person when fearful).
- **Giving it Space**: For strong or persistent states, give it space to be there, honoring its presence. This involves being with it in mindfulness, feeling it in your body, accepting that it's here, and allowing it to reveal itself without pushing it away.
Returning from Dorsal Vagal State (Shutdown)
Deb Dana- Seek a regulated human who can simply 'be with' you, offering presence without trying to fix or demand anything.
- Know that you are not alone, not lost, and are seen; this is the core need of the dorsal state.
- Gently bring back some energy, such as gentle movement, turning on some music, or sending a text to a friend, once a sense of safety is established.