Why We Panic: A Journalist Investigates Anxiety, Fear, and How To Deal With It | Matt Gutman

Oct 2, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Matt Gutman, ABC News's chief national correspondent, discusses his journey to overcome panic attacks, exploring various treatments like breath work, therapy, medication, and psychedelics. He emphasizes that panic is normal and treatable, often linked to social fear and unaddressed grief.

At a Glance
16 Insights
1h 6m Duration
15 Topics
7 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Introduction to Panic Attacks and Matt Gutman's Journey

Matt Gutman's Early Experiences with Panic Attacks

Panic in High-Pressure Live Television Reporting

The Role of Social Fear in Panic Attacks

Panic as a Normal Evolutionary Response

Understanding Phobias and Rational Fears

Imposter Syndrome and its Link to Panic

Physiological Mechanisms and Long-Term Effects of Panic

Holotropic Breathwork for Emotional Release

Psilocybin Experience and its Impact

Transformative Experience with 5-MeO-DMT (Toad Venom)

Challenges and Delayed Effects of Ayahuasca

Psychedelics and Meditation as Ongoing Maintenance

Comprehensive Approach to Managing Panic Attacks

Embracing Self-Compassion and Forgiveness in Panic

Panic Attack

A panic attack is the brain's most blaring alarm, signaling a significant social threat that must be addressed immediately to avoid perceived death or ostracization. It manifests as intense physical symptoms like pounding heart, difficulty breathing, and constricted vision.

Social Fear (Evolutionary Context)

Humans evolved to be highly cooperative, meaning banishment from a group was historically equivalent to a death sentence. Consequently, the brain developed to associate breaking social taboos or displeasing peers with death, triggering panic attacks as a defense mechanism against social ostracization.

Imposter Syndrome

Imposter syndrome is the feeling that one is a fraud and that others will eventually discover their lack of capability for their role or achievements. It often arises from a dissonance between childhood expectations (e.g., being told one can do anything) and the realities of adult life, or vice-versa.

Courageous Coward

This term describes an individual who possesses a high tolerance for physical threat and danger but a low tolerance for social danger. Such individuals might excel in chaotic, physically risky situations but experience panic attacks in socially evaluative contexts like public speaking or live performance.

Holotropic Breathwork

A breathing technique involving two fast breaths in and one fast breath out, performed rapidly. This hyperventilation-like process deprives the body of carbon dioxide, leading to an altered state of consciousness that can facilitate deep emotional release, such as crying or intense introspection.

5-MeO-DMT (Toad Venom)

A powerful psychedelic derived from the excretions of the Sonoran desert toad, consumed as a syrupy smoke. It induces an almost immediate, profound altered state, often described as a brief 'death' of consciousness, followed by intense physical and emotional release, such as primal screaming.

Ayahuasca

A shamanistic brew originating from the Shipibo tribe in the Amazon, made from two distinct plants. One plant induces hallucinatory states, while the other enables the body to process the chemical compounds, allowing for a psychedelic 'journey' that can vary greatly in experience and intensity.

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What is the core evolutionary reason humans experience panic attacks?

Humans evolved to be highly cooperative, meaning being ostracized from one's group was historically equivalent to a death sentence. Panic attacks are the brain's alarm system, signaling a significant social threat to prevent banishment and ensure survival.

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Are panic attacks a sign of being 'broken' or defective?

No, panic attacks are a perfectly natural and normal part of the human condition. Our minds and bodies are wired to have many 'false alarms' (panic attacks) to ensure we don't miss a real threat, as missing a threat could lead to death.

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What happens physiologically during a panic attack?

The amygdala senses danger and signals the hypothalamus to release adrenaline, followed by cortisol. This chemical cascade prepares the body for 'fight or flight' by increasing heart rate, heavy breathing, constricting vision, and sweating.

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Can frequent panic attacks cause long-term damage to the body?

For the type of acute, spiking panic attacks Matt experienced, the body is generally okay and can even compensate by keeping baseline cortisol levels low. However, chronic, prolonged exposure to cortisol from constant anxiety (e.g., abusive situations) is unhealthy.

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How do SSRIs (antidepressants) interact with psychedelic experiences like psilocybin?

SSRIs can dull the experience of psychedelics, particularly psilocybin, making the effects less intense or profound than they might otherwise be.

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Why might psychedelics be helpful for someone who fears losing control, especially compared to cannabis?

Psychedelics, unlike cannabis, can take one out of the realm of choice, effectively removing the consciousness that fears social judgment or loss of control. This allows for deep emotional excavation without the ego interfering.

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What is the ultimate goal in 'conquering' panic attacks?

Conquering panic attacks doesn't mean they will never happen again, but rather developing the ability to be okay with them when they do occur, knowing how to deal with them, and practicing self-forgiveness and self-compassion.

1. Reframe Panic as Normal

Understand that panic attacks and anxiety are a normal part of human evolution, designed for survival, which can be “good medicine” and help you feel less broken or defective.

2. Cultivate Self-Compassion

Practice self-kindness and compassion, treating yourself as you would treat others, and avoid self-criticism or feeling like a failure if panic occurs, trusting that you will survive it.

3. Cultivate Self-Forgiveness & Reliance

Develop self-forgiveness and a healthy sense of self-reliance, understanding that while difficult situations may arise, you have the capacity to handle them, fostering a hopeful and optimistic outlook.

4. Implement Daily Wellness Maintenance

Consistently practice daily wellness habits such as eating right, limiting caffeine and alcohol, exercising, and meditating for a few minutes, as these actions help lower your baseline anxiety and reduce the likelihood of panic attacks.

5. Address Panic Symptoms Early

Do not discount or ignore symptoms of panic or intense nerves, even if you don’t fully understand them, as delaying action can lead to years of suffering.

6. Seek Therapy and Medication

If experiencing panic attacks, consider seeking professional therapy and medication as these methods have been effective for recovery and getting back on your feet.

7. Engage in Issue-Specific Therapy

If traditional long-term therapy hasn’t been effective due to personal dynamics, consider engaging in temporary, issue-specific therapy focused on a single, defined problem.

8. Explore Psychedelics for Grief

Under professional guidance, consider exploring psychedelics (e.g., psilocybin, toad venom, ayahuasca) to access altered states for cathartic emotional release and to excavate deep-seated grief.

9. Practice Holotropic Breathwork

Engage in Holotropic Breathwork, using a fast two-breaths-in, one-breath-out technique to fill your belly, which can induce an altered state for emotional release and catharsis.

10. Discuss SSRIs with Doctor

Consult with a doctor about SSRIs (antidepressants) as they can be helpful in limiting panic and anxiety for some individuals, while being aware of potential withdrawal symptoms.

11. Consider Beta Blockers

Discuss beta blockers with your doctor as a non-narcotic option to manage the physiological symptoms of panic by putting a ceiling on heart rate, without affecting your psychology.

12. Practice In-Moment Self-Reassurance

During a panic attack, use techniques like placing a hand on your heart and reassuring yourself that you are fine and have survived similar experiences before, drawing on cognitive behavioral therapy principles.

13. Acknowledge Social Fear

Recognize that social fear and the concern about peer judgment are natural evolutionary traits that contribute significantly to panic attacks, helping to normalize the experience.

14. Differentiate Panic from Chronic Anxiety

Understand that while acute panic attacks may not cause long-term physical damage, chronic anxiety resulting from prolonged stressful environments is a different and unhealthy condition.

15. Meditate for Psychedelic Integration

Utilize meditation to access and integrate experiences from psychedelic journeys, allowing images and insights to surface and reinforce strengthening moments.

16. Check Sodium Levels

Consult a doctor to check your sodium levels and adjust your diet if necessary, as low sodium can be an issue, though not directly related to panic attacks.

Panic is perfectly natural, Matt. It is perfectly normal. He said, our minds and bodies are wired for us to have a thousand panic attacks, a thousand false alarms, so long as we don't have a single missed alarm.

Randy Nessie (quoted by Matt Gutman)

It's your brain telling your body that there is a very big social threat happening and you better fix that right now or you are going to die.

Matt Gutman

The beauty of psychedelics for me is they took me out of the realm of having a choice. I was not present anymore. Matt Gutman was not there to make the decision.

Matt Gutman

The baseline human condition is not to be happy or even to be contented. The baseline is to survive. The second thing is to create offspring. After that, whatever you manage to do, if you can bring joy to your life, if you can recognize moments of feeling content or moments of happiness, that's all a bonus.

Matt Gutman

I cannot promise that I won't have panic attacks again. I just, I probably will. That's how I am engineered, but I need to continue this maintenance that I've been doing.

Matt Gutman

One way to understand hope and optimism is not that shitty things will never happen to you. It's just that you can handle it if and when it does.

Matt Gutman
50
Number of countries Matt Gutman has reported from Reflects his extensive career as a correspondent.
15 years
Duration between Matt's first panic attack and recognizing them Period of cognitive dissonance regarding his symptoms.
10-15 seconds
Typical duration of a live 'toss' or 'live tag' in network news These segments are precisely timed due to strict show schedules.
7-9 million people
Audience size for a network news broadcast The number of viewers potentially judging a live performance.
20+ years
Length of Matt Gutman's career before the Kobe Bryant incident His experience prior to the panic-induced error.
1 month
Duration of Matt Gutman's suspension from ABC News Consequence of the factual error made during live reporting.
18 years
Duration Matt Gutman was on Paxil (antidepressants) Long-term use of medication for anxiety/PTSD.
90 seconds
Time after adrenaline release for cortisol release If a perceived threat persists, cortisol follows adrenaline in the stress response.
12
Number of people at the retreat where Matt Gutman experienced toad venom The size of the group participating in the psychedelic retreat.
Over 30 minutes
Duration of Matt Gutman's screaming during toad venom experience An intense, primal emotional release during the altered state.
3 to 5 cups
Number of cups of Ayahuasca Matt Gutman took in later sessions Significantly higher doses than others, due to delayed or blocked effects.
10 days
Duration Matt Gutman was sick to his stomach after Ayahuasca Physical aftermath of a massive purge experience.