Exploring sex science and pseudo-science (with Mary Roach)
In this episode, Spencer Greenberg speaks with author Mary Roach about her unique approach to investigating diverse topics like the science of sex, human-wildlife conflict, and the scientific study of the afterlife. They discuss the importance of rigorous research, common misconceptions, and fostering coexistence.
Deep Dive Analysis
15 Topic Outline
Mary Roach's Approach to Selecting Book Topics
Surprising Discoveries in the Science of Sex
Gender Differences in Personality and Sex Focus
Premise and Insights from the Book 'Fuzz'
Moral Status of Animals and Human-Wildlife Conflict
Memorable Scenes from Investigating Wildlife Attacks
Influences and Research Methods in Science Writing
The Spread of Misinformation and Apocryphal Stories
Complexity of Seemingly Simple Problems
Adversarial Collaboration and Coexistence Initiatives
Investigating the Existence of a Soul and Afterlife in 'Spook'
Scientific Scrutiny of Psychic Abilities and Paranormal Claims
The Challenges and Stigma of Parapsychology Research
The Barnum Effect and Astrological Compatibility
The Robustness of the Scientific Process and Replicability
7 Key Concepts
Female Orgasm for Conception
For centuries, it was wrongly believed that female orgasm was necessary for conception. This misinformation was prevalent among doctors and royal court physicians, leading to advice for titillation before intercourse, which was beneficial for women at the time.
Pest Mentality
Using the term 'pest' for animals like rodents and small birds gives humans permission to deal with them without much thought for humane treatment. This contrasts with the concern often shown for larger, 'cuter' animals, highlighting a hypocritical double standard in animal welfare.
Jeremy Bentham's Suffering Principle
This philosophical idea posits that the primary characteristic imbuing an animal with moral status is its capacity to suffer, rather than its ability to reason. This concept suggests that if an animal can suffer, its preferences and well-being should be given moral consideration.
Mellified Man
A bizarre ancient Chinese medicine described in the Chinese Materia Medica, where individuals would consume nothing but honey, then be placed in a stone sarcophagus for 200 years. The resulting mush was believed to have medicinal properties.
Adversarial Collaboration
A research approach where people with opposing viewpoints work together to design and conduct a joint study or paper. The goal is to overcome biases, communicate effectively, and potentially find common ground or more robust conclusions by scrutinizing each other's methods.
Persistence of Personality After Death
A field of research, notably funded by Chester Carlson at the University of Virginia, that scientifically investigates whether personality or consciousness continues to exist after physical death. This includes studies on near-death experiences and reincarnation.
Barnum Effect (Forer Effect)
The psychological phenomenon where individuals give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that are supposedly tailored specifically for them, but are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people. This explains why many people find horoscopes or generic personality assessments accurate.
9 Questions Answered
Mary Roach selects topics by imagining the potential for interesting scenes, settings, narratives, and characters that will bring the material to life for the reader, often starting with just one or two intriguing 'nuggets' of information.
Early scientific studies of sex revealed that many centuries passed without proper scientific investigation, leading to widespread misinformation, such as the belief that female orgasm was necessary for conception. There were also smaller surprises, like the observation of a fetus masturbating via ultrasound.
People often show a double standard by adoring animals like squirrels in a park but deploring them when they become 'pests' in their homes or gardens. This shift in opinion occurs when animals interfere with personal space or livelihood, showing that affection for animals often depends on convenience.
Mary Roach ensures accuracy by conducting extensive research, including direct interactions and conversations with researchers, studying their published papers, examining other journal articles and archives, and consulting multiple researchers. She avoids relying on secondary sources like other books due to potential inaccuracies.
Secondary sources, such as other books, are often not fact-checked, leading to the spread and morphing of apocryphal stories. Information can change subtly with each retelling and citation, making it difficult to trace back to an original, verified fact.
Simple questions often lead to complex answers because real-world phenomena are nuanced and depend on numerous variables. For example, the effectiveness of a laser scarecrow for birds depends on wavelength, color, bird species, time of day, and other unknown factors, making a definitive 'yes' or 'no' impossible.
'Spook' explores historical and contemporary efforts to use scientific methods to prove or disprove the existence of a soul or an afterlife. It examines the creative and often ridiculed scientific approaches taken to investigate a subject typically confined to religious belief and philosophy.
Some studies, like one at the University of Edinburgh, have suggested a greater-than-chance ability for telepathy in certain populations (e.g., musicians, math prodigies, meditators) when experimental protocols were jointly approved by skeptics and researchers. However, such studies are often scrutinized far more heavily than others, and overall evidence remains controversial.
It's difficult because many claims are vague and unfalsifiable, and even when concrete tests are designed, the phenomena are often described as fleeting and uncontrollable, making consistent demonstration challenging. Additionally, the field is often 'swamped with bullshit,' attracting charlatans and making legitimate research hard to distinguish.
22 Actionable Insights
1. Embrace Nuance in Understanding
When exploring any topic, recognize that depth of knowledge reveals complexity, nuance, and numerous unknowns. Avoid making sweeping statements and acknowledge exceptions, as true understanding requires appreciating intricate details.
2. Question Intuitive Knowledge
Do not automatically accept information as true just because it aligns with your existing beliefs or “feels right.” Actively question intuitive knowledge and seek external verification to avoid biases.
3. Verify Primary Sources
Avoid relying on secondary sources like other books, as they may not be fact-checked and can perpetuate misinformation. Always strive to trace information back to primary sources to ensure accuracy.
4. Recognize Citation Slippage
Be aware that information can morph and become inaccurate through repeated citation without verification of original sources. Actively trace claims back to their origin to prevent the spread of misinformation.
5. Distrust Simplistic Solutions
Be wary of individuals who propose overly simplistic solutions to complex problems, as this often indicates a lack of deep understanding. Complex issues rarely have “just” one easy fix.
6. Inform Policy with Expert Teams
For effective governance, leaders should prioritize surrounding themselves with and being informed by diverse teams of experts who understand the complexities of various issues. This ensures policy decisions are well-grounded and nuanced.
7. Practice Adversarial Collaborations
Actively seek out and engage in “adversarial collaborations” where individuals with opposing viewpoints work together to find common ground or jointly investigate a topic. This approach can lead to more robust solutions and mutual understanding.
8. Utilize Skilled Conflict Moderators
When attempting to resolve conflicts between groups with differing opinions, ensure a skilled moderator is present to facilitate effective communication and listening. A professional in human-human conflict management can guide productive dialogue.
9. Promote Coexistence Through Dialogue
To resolve human-wildlife or human-human conflicts, bring together diverse stakeholders from opposing sides for facilitated discussions. This direct dialogue, guided by trained moderators, can foster understanding and lead to mutually beneficial policies.
10. Build Trust Through Shared Experience
To bridge divides, encourage shared experiences and interactions among people with differing views, allowing them to see each other as individuals rather than just opposing viewpoints. This can foster personal connection and reduce animosity.
11. Travel to Broaden Worldview
Engage in international travel and spend time with people from diverse backgrounds who may look, dress, or think differently than you. This helps reveal the common core of humanity and build understanding beyond isolated social circles.
12. Connect Beyond Political Differences
When engaging with individuals holding opposing political views, first connect on non-political topics to establish a human connection. This helps to see them as a person rather than just a platform or an opinion.
13. Prioritize Suffering in Moral Status
When considering the moral status of a creature, focus on its capacity to suffer rather than its ability to reason. This perspective suggests that the experience of pain is a key factor in moral consideration.
14. Reconsider “Pest” Labeling
Be mindful of using the term “pest” for animals, as it can desensitize people to their welfare and lead to less humane treatment. Reflect on the ethical implications of how we deal with animals, regardless of their size or perceived cuteness.
15. Challenge Animal Welfare Double Standards
Recognize and challenge the double standards in animal welfare, where larger, cuter animals receive more concern than smaller, less appealing ones. Advocate for humane treatment protocols for all animals, including those in our homes and yards.
16. Value Animal Preferences and Suffering
When interacting with animals, consider that their preferences and capacity for suffering might be as significant as human preferences in certain contexts. Avoid automatically prioritizing human desires over animal well-being, especially when suffering is involved.
17. Scientifically Test Paranormal Claims
Apply rigorous scientific methods to investigate paranormal or spiritual claims, rather than dismissing them outright. Science should be capable of determining the reality or falsity of such phenomena if testable claims are made.
18. Demand Testable Protocols
When evaluating extraordinary claims, insist on concrete, falsifiable predictions and a clear experimental protocol before testing. This prevents vague claims from being untestable and ensures a fair scientific assessment.
19. Guard Against Self-Delusion
Recognize the potential for self-delusion, especially when individuals strongly believe in their own extraordinary abilities despite repeated failures in controlled tests. Maintain a critical perspective even when personal conviction is high.
20. Prioritize Evidence Over Mockery
When encountering beliefs that seem “silly,” resist the temptation to mock them and instead focus on evaluating the actual evidence. A scientific approach requires starting from what the evidence says, not from assumptions or derision.
21. Choose Topics for Engaging Narrative
When selecting a topic, consider what scenes, settings, and narratives will bring the material to life for the audience, focusing on where you can go, who you can see, and what interesting situations might arise. This approach helps ensure the subject matter lends itself to an engaging and surprising read.
22. Immerse Yourself in Research
To create a vivid and engaging narrative, consider immersing yourself directly in the subject matter, even participating in experiments or experiences. This “gonzo journalism” approach can lead to unique and memorable scenes for your audience.
7 Key Quotes
The question is not whether the animals can reason, but it's really about whether the animals can suffer.
Spencer Greenberg
I don't have the right to decide which life is more important.
Tibetan Herder (recounted by Mary Roach)
We called him Enos the Penis because he was a dick. He was an ornery chimp, and nobody liked to work with him.
Chimp Trainer (recounted by Mary Roach)
The more you know about something, I think the less sure you are about it.
Mary Roach
Anybody who says to you, why don't you just fill in the blank, that knows nothing about it, really.
Mary Roach
The strongest and most inflammatory positions are held by people who've never sat down for a meal with the people that they're hating on.
Mary Roach
The client determines the quality of the psychic.
Unnamed source (recounted by Mary Roach)