Fight, flight, freeze, fawn (with Sasha Raskin)
Spencer Greenberg speaks with Sasha Raskin, founder of A Beautiful Mess, about mental wellness, feminism, sexual assault, and the pervasive issue of gaslighting in society. They discuss the importance of open conversations about mental health and the systemic failures that contribute to individual suffering.
Deep Dive Analysis
13 Topic Outline
Introduction to A Beautiful Mess and its Mission
Sasha's Personal Journey and Founding Motivation
Overcoming Stigma and the Power of Sharing
Critique of Toxic Positivity Culture
The Societal Problem of Gaslighting
Examples of Societal Gaslighting: Weinstein, Politics, Media
Why Sexual Assault Victims Don't Come Forward
Understanding Why Victims Maintain Contact with Abusers
The Role of Intergenerational Trauma and Power Dynamics
Gendered Responses to Harassment and the Need for Male Allies
Feminism as a Movement for Both Men and Women
Sasha's Current Work and Ways to Support A Beautiful Mess
Listener Question: Understanding Degrowth
5 Key Concepts
Toxic Positivity Culture
This refers to a societal norm where people are expected to maintain a positive outlook at all times, often dismissing or invalidating genuine struggles with glib or platitudinous responses. It can lead individuals to internalize their pain and feel unsafe sharing their true feelings, exacerbating mental health issues.
Gaslighting
Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation where a person or group attempts to make someone question their own sanity, perception of reality, or memories. It often involves denying events that clearly happened or making the victim feel 'overly sensitive' for having a reasonable reaction to abuse or mistreatment.
Enthusiastic Consent
This principle, often found in kink or sex-positive communities, emphasizes that consent for any sexual activity must be clearly, actively, and enthusiastically given. It moves beyond the absence of a 'no' to require a clear 'yes,' acknowledging that silence or lack of resistance does not equate to consent.
Freeze/Fawn Response
These are neurobiological survival modes in response to trauma or perceived danger, alongside fight or flight. 'Freeze' involves a state of paralysis where one is unable to act or respond, while 'fawn' is an attempt to placate or smooth over the situation, sometimes by complying or giving in, to avoid further harm.
Intergenerational Trauma
This concept describes how trauma, such as historical oppression or violence, can be passed down through generations, affecting individuals' neurobiology, behaviors, and responses to stress or threatening situations, even if they did not directly experience the initial trauma.
8 Questions Answered
A Beautiful Mess is a mental health organization founded by Sasha Raskin that runs talks and events for corporations and private groups to combat loneliness, depression, and mental health stigma, while fostering connection, intimacy, and emotional resilience.
Toxic positivity is harmful because it often meets people's genuine struggles with dismissive or glib responses, making them feel that their pain is unwelcome. This can lead individuals to internalize their suffering and believe that no one cares, worsening their mental health issues.
Society gaslights individuals by denying their reality or making them question their sanity, such as telling women they are 'too angry' when reacting to sexual harassment, or dismissing physical symptoms as psychological, as Sasha experienced with her cancer diagnosis.
Victims often don't come forward due to societal conditioning that makes them doubt if what happened was assault, victim-blaming culture, fear of public scrutiny, and the high likelihood of retaliation, discrediting, and threats from abusers or their allies.
Victims might stay in contact due to shame, denial, or embarrassment, an attempt to reclaim power, or because it can be a safer survival mechanism to placate the abuser rather than confront them, especially if the abuser holds power or is part of their social circle.
The 'freeze' response is a state of paralysis where a person is unable to act or speak during a traumatic event, while the 'fawn' response involves trying to appease or smooth over the situation, sometimes by complying with the aggressor, as a survival strategy.
Patriarchy harms men by imposing societal expectations that prevent them from showing weakness, crying, or expressing fear and vulnerability. This can lead to significant emotional damage and loneliness, as men are often denied spaces to be fully expressive and seek emotional support.
Degrowth is an idea suggesting that instead of maximizing economic growth, societies should aim for a different objective, as continuous economic growth may not be sustainable or always lead to improved well-being for conscious beings.
15 Actionable Insights
1. Share Mental Health Struggles
If you are struggling with mental health, consider sharing your story publicly or with a wide group, as Sasha Raskin did. This can normalize struggles for others and empower you by reclaiming your narrative, reducing the power others might wield over your secret.
2. Reclaim Your Narrative
Own your personal story, especially regarding past struggles or traumatic events. By being open, you claim your narrative and prevent others from using your experiences against you, fostering empowerment rather than secrecy and fear.
3. Avoid Unsolicited Advice
When someone shares they are having a hard time, resist the urge to immediately offer advice like ’think positive’ or ‘write a gratitude journal.’ Such responses can be patronizing, dismissive, and make people feel unheard, potentially worsening their mental health struggles.
4. Ask for Space Before Sharing
Before confiding difficult personal struggles, ask your friend or listener if they have the emotional space to receive what you’re about to share. This acknowledges that not everyone can always handle heavy topics and helps mitigate the risk of overwhelming them.
5. Challenge Toxic Positivity
Recognize and avoid toxic positivity, which dismisses non-positive emotions with cliches or glib responses. This societal tendency can make people feel isolated and unwilling to share their true struggles, exacerbating mental health issues.
6. Advocate for Systemic Mental Health Solutions
Understand that mental health issues are often systemic, not just individual problems, and advocate for community-wide responses rather than placing the burden solely on individuals. This collective approach is necessary because no single person can bear the weight of complex mental health challenges.
7. Identify and Resist Gaslighting
Learn to recognize gaslighting, which involves attempts to make you question your sanity or reality, often by denying your experiences or blaming you for your reactions. Understanding this dynamic, which occurs personally and societally, helps validate your feelings and experiences.
8. Understand Why Victims Don’t Come Forward
Recognize that victims of sexual assault or harassment often do not come forward due to societal conditioning, shame, fear of scrutiny, blame, retaliation, or not even realizing they were assaulted. This understanding helps combat victim-blaming and encourages empathy.
9. Understand Why Victims Stay in Contact with Abusers
Acknowledge that victims may stay in contact with abusers due to shame, denial, embarrassment, an attempt to reclaim power, or fear of retaliation and career/reputation ruin. This behavior is not uncommon and does not invalidate their experience of abuse.
10. Use Safety Measures Against Harassment
If you feel unsafe saying ’no’ to unwanted advances, consider using safety measures like providing a fake phone number that rings. This can make the harasser feel they’ve ‘gotten what they want’ and allow you to safely disengage.
11. Confront Harassment Directly (If Safe)
When experiencing unwanted touching, directly challenge the harasser by asking if they would treat a man the same way. This can highlight the double standard and, if you feel safe, assert your boundaries.
12. Actively Seek Awareness (If Privileged)
If you hold privilege, actively work to see and understand the harm perpetrated against others, rather than remaining oblivious. It is your responsibility to step outside your bubble and become more aware of your surroundings and others’ experiences.
13. Men: Engage in ‘Men’s Work’
Men should engage in ‘men’s work’ to uncouple from patriarchal expectations that suppress emotions like weakness, fear, or the desire for comfort. This movement aims to release men from these burdens, allowing them to show up in a more integrated and emotionally healthy way, benefiting all of society.
14. Companies: Implement Mental Health Events
Companies should sign the ‘Caring Pledge’ and commit to making mental health events a normal part of their work week by 2025. This initiative aims to foster connection, levity, joy, and emotional resilience among employees.
15. Support Mental Health Initiatives
Support organizations like A Beautiful Mess through financial donations, signing pledges, or bringing them into your company. This helps create spaces where it’s okay and welcome to discuss the full spectrum of human experiences, from joy to pain.
6 Key Quotes
The most beautiful things about us are being our full, ugly, messy selves and not just kind of pretending everything is fine all the time, which our social norms often tell us to do.
Sasha Raskin
It's not that I had depression because if I had depression and I was in a supportive, understanding environment, it could have been a totally different story is that I was chronically and consistently met with a society that does not want to deal with anything non-positive.
Sasha Raskin
The fact that you're pointing out individual contributions when, you know, and I, gosh, I'm going to get the numbers wrong, like 10%, it's like, uh, companies are the ones responsible for something like 80% of the global warming is journalistic malpractice. And to me, it's the same equivalent with mental health.
Sasha Raskin
Admitting you're a victim is one of the strongest, most difficult things to do, especially in a society that really hates victims and does horrible things to them.
Sasha Raskin
Maybe I'm not too sensitive. Maybe you're just an asshole.
Sasha Raskin
Feminism is something that should be helping men and movements for men should be helping women because these are so fluid and they're so inter-dynamic and interdependent that there's no way.
Sasha Raskin