Freezing to (not) death: cryonics and the quest for immortality (with Max Marty)
Spencer Greenberg speaks with Max Marty about the science, economics, and philosophy of cryonics. They explore how cryonics works, its costs, and the motivations of those who sign up, framing it as a potential bridge to future life.
Deep Dive Analysis
16 Topic Outline
Introduction to Cryonics: Definition and Process
Detailed Steps of Cryopreservation
Defining Death and Future Reversal Technologies
The Role of Ultra-Low Temperatures in Pausing Chemistry
Ethical and Legal Considerations of Pre-Death Preservation
Cryonics as a Form of Emergency Medicine
The Cost and Funding Mechanisms of Cryonics
Ensuring Long-Term Organizational Stability and Incentive Alignment
Demographics and Motivations of Cryonics Adherents
Assessing the Probability of Revival and Contract Customization
The Process of Signing Up for Cryonics and 'Cryocrastination'
Addressing Concerns: Organ Donation and Brain Damage
Philosophical Debate: Personal Identity and Consciousness Continuity
Concerns About Social Integration and Potential Future Scenarios
Addressing Afterlife and Social Stigma Concerns
First Steps for Those Interested in Cryonics
6 Key Concepts
Cryonics
The practice of pausing a person's body by lowering its temperature to halt chemical processes, with the goal of future rewarming and revival. It involves specialized companies, technologies, and legal frameworks to facilitate preservation at the end of life.
Brain Death
A modern definition of death where, even if a person's heart and lungs can be artificially supported, the brain is irreparably damaged, meaning the individual's identity and consciousness are considered gone. Cryonics aims to prevent or reverse this level of brain damage.
Vitrification
A process used in cryonics where the body's blood is replaced with a medical-grade antifreeze solution. This prevents ice crystal formation and other damage that would occur during a 'straight freeze' as the body is cooled below water's freezing point.
Patient Care Trust Fund
A fund established by cryonics organizations (like Alcor) where a significant portion of the cryonics fee is invested. This fund is designed to cover the long-term costs of maintaining preserved patients, legal challenges, and future research for revival.
Cryocrastination
The tendency for individuals who believe cryonics is a good idea to delay signing up, often due to perceived hassle, cost, or a belief that they are young and healthy enough to put it off. This procrastination carries the risk of unforeseen events making preservation impossible.
Aldehyde Stabilized Cryopreservation
An alternative cryopreservation procedure where the brain is perfused with a chemical that glues it together, fixating it in a stable state. This method is typically associated with the goal of future brain scanning and mind uploading into a simulator, rather than biological reanimation.
10 Questions Answered
Cryonics is the practice of pausing a person's body by lowering its temperature to halt chemical processes, with the goal of future rewarming and revival. It involves quickly cooling the body, replacing blood with medical-grade antifreeze (vitrification), and then storing it in liquid nitrogen at extremely low temperatures.
Future technology would need to reverse damage caused by the cryopreservation process itself (e.g., antifreeze toxicity), cure the original cause of death, address aging-related issues, and undo any brain damage that occurred before or during preservation.
The cost of cryonics ranges from $20,000 to $200,000, depending on the service level (e.g., whole body vs. head-only, inclusion of standby team). The vast majority of people pay for it through life insurance, which can be very affordable for younger, healthier individuals.
Organizations like Alcor structure themselves to last, investing funds safely and aligning incentives by requiring board members and staff to be signed up for cryonics themselves, often with family members already preserved.
While precise probabilities are speculative, Max Marty personally estimates a roughly 33% chance of revival if he were to die in 20 years. He believes even a 1 in 100 or 1 in 1,000 chance is worthwhile given the potential upside of extended life.
Yes, individuals can write specific conditions into their contracts, such as requiring a certain number of successful revivals of people with similar preservation quality before their own revival, or specifying a desired age to be revitalized to.
Concerns include subtle or severe brain damage, potentially leading to conditions like schizophrenia or delusional thinking. Cryonics advocates hope future technologies will be advanced enough to reverse various forms of brain damage, and contracts can specify conditions to avoid poor revivals.
This is a deeply philosophical question that divides the cryonics community. Some believe that a perfect molecular copy or uploaded mind would still be 'you,' while others are uncomfortable with the idea of a discontinuity of consciousness, preferring a more direct biological reanimation.
While challenging, this scenario is compared to being born into the world without prior connections or to witness protection programs. Advocates suggest that future society, especially if only a few are revived, would find them interesting and help them adapt, or that a larger group could form its own community.
Yes, in many communities, there is a social stigma, often stemming from deeply ingrained cultural and psychological ways humanity has dealt with death as an inevitable end. However, in some communities, the opposite stigma exists for not signing up.
8 Actionable Insights
1. Initiate Cryonics Early
Start the cryonics sign-up process as soon as you are interested and able, rather than procrastinating, because the cost of life insurance increases with age and unforeseen events can make future sign-up impossible. This proactive approach ensures better chances for effective cryopreservation.
2. Fund Cryonics with Life Insurance
Secure a life insurance policy to cover the cost of cryonics, as this is a highly affordable and tax-advantaged method for most young and healthy individuals, typically costing $10-30 per month. This strategy manages the financial risk associated with unexpected death and long-term preservation.
3. Select a Stable Cryonics Provider
Choose a cryonics organization with strong incentive alignment, such as one where all board members are signed up for cryonics and funds are invested safely, to ensure the institution’s long-term commitment to its mission. This institutional stability is crucial for ensuring proper care and eventual revival over decades or centuries.
4. Customize Revival Conditions
Include specific conditions in your cryonics contract for eventual revival, such as requiring a certain number of successful revivals of similar cases or being restored to a preferred age (e.g., 30 years old). This allows you to address personal concerns about the quality of revival and the state in which you would return.
5. Prioritize Rapid Preservation Post-Death
If signed up for cryonics, ensure that rapid cooling and medical intervention occur immediately after legal death to minimize brain damage from oxygen deprivation and decay. Dying under controlled conditions with a standby team is critical for maximizing the quality of your cryopreservation.
6. Explore Cryonics as an Option
Consider cryonics as a form of “emergency medicine” to pause life when current technology cannot solve a fatal condition, with the hope of future revival when medical advancements are available. This reframes death as a reversible state rather than a permanent end.
7. Engage in Cryonics Research
Actively research cryonics by listening to educational content, joining relevant communities, and conversing with signed-up individuals to thoroughly understand the process and address any philosophical or practical concerns. This informed approach helps in making a well-considered decision.
8. Challenge Cryonics Stigma
Actively discuss your interest or decision to sign up for cryonics with others, as openly sharing your perspective helps to reduce social stigma and normalize the practice. Each person who engages in this conversation contributes to a broader cultural shift towards acceptance.
5 Key Quotes
Cryonics is the practice of putting a person on pause by bringing their body temperature down to the point where there is no meaningful chemistry taking place within the body, with the goal of eventually rewarming and reviving them at some future date.
Max Marty
I don't want to check out of the party before the party even gets started.
Max Marty
When comparing those alternatives, I'll take the one in a hundred chance even of cryonics working, or one in a thousand, over the certainty of non-existence in the other cases.
Max Marty
The alternative is being eaten by the worms or burnt to a crisp in an incinerator, etc. Those alternatives seem, well, at least as bleak as the scenario where you never come back, even though you hoped that you would.
Max Marty
Every individual who signs up makes it a little bit less stigmatized, and so your signing up sort of enables the next person down the line to sign up, and not just signing up, but also talking about it.
Max Marty
1 Protocols
Standard Cryopreservation Process (Alcor Example)
Max Marty- Notify cryonics provider (e.g., Alcor) as the person nears death.
- A standby team is dispatched to the person's location.
- Once legally declared dead, the team immediately begins lowering the body temperature to just above freezing.
- A cocktail of medicines is administered to prevent blood coagulation and minimize brain damage from lack of oxygen and decay.
- The body is transported to the cryonics facility (e.g., Alcor in Phoenix, Arizona) while maintained at just above freezing.
- At the facility, most of the blood is removed and replaced with a medical-grade antifreeze (vitrification fluid).
- The body temperature is slowly lowered over hours to days, down to -320 degrees Fahrenheit (-200 degrees Celsius).
- The body is then immersed in liquid nitrogen in a giant thermos-like container, where it awaits future revival technologies.