Meditation and Enlightenment (with Jeremy Stevenson)
Spencer Greenberg speaks with Jeremy Stevenson about his extensive meditation journey, exploring various definitions of meditation, mindfulness, and enlightenment. They discuss Jeremy's profound experiences, the challenges of intensive retreats, and their collaborative project to map meditation techniques, skills, and insights.
Deep Dive Analysis
18 Topic Outline
Jeremy's Introduction to Meditation and First Retreat
Defining Mindfulness: Equanimity and Meta-Awareness
Understanding Compassion and Compassion Meditation
The Pursuit of Unconditional Wellbeing through Meditation
Exploring the Theravada Path to Enlightenment: Stages and Dark Night
Goenka Vipassana Retreat: Concentration and Body Scan Techniques
Distinction Between Meditation Technique, Skill, and Insight
The Insight of Dukkha (Unsatisfactoriness) and its Therapeutic Impact
Experiences on a Month-Long Retreat: Bliss and Self-Loss
The Nature of Being Lost in Thought and its Effects
Stream Entry: The First Major Stage of Buddhist Enlightenment
Skepticism Regarding Specificity of Enlightenment Stages
Meditation's Connection to Religion and Secular Practice
A General Definition of Meditation and Diverse Skills
Post-Profound Experience: Indifference vs. Equanimity
Benefits of Impermanence Insight for Emotion Regulation
Exploring Non-Dual Mindfulness and its Challenges
Different Models and Perspectives on Enlightenment
10 Key Concepts
Mindfulness
Mindfulness is defined by two components: an attitude of equanimity, meaning equal acceptance of pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral experiences without craving or aversion, and meta-awareness, which is being aware of what you're aware of or knowing what you're doing.
Compassion
Compassion is the desire for another conscious creature to feel better or to have their suffering reduced, often including a motivational component to act on that desire. It is distinguished from empathy because compassion intrinsically feels good, whereas empathy involves feeling what the other person is feeling.
Meditation Technique
A meditation technique is something a practitioner can realistically do right now, involving their focus, thoughts, or attitude, which may or may not lead to an intended outcome. It is a specific method or practice that one engages in.
Meditation Skill
A meditation skill is the ability to reliably produce an intended outcome by engaging in a specific meditation technique. For example, the skill might be reliably eliciting a state of compassion through the technique of repeating compassionate phrases.
Meditation Insight
Meditation insights are important, non-conceptual truths learned about the human mind, one's own mind, or the nature of reality that people are not usually aware of. These are fundamental realizations that can permeate one's understanding beyond mere intellectual grasp.
Impermanence (Buddhist Insight)
Impermanence is a Buddhist insight, often a non-conceptual perception, that everything is always changing, including every conscious experience. In its extreme form, it suggests that every conscious experience is unsatisfactory by its very nature, even blissful states, due to inherent imperfection.
Dukkha Nanas (Dark Night)
The Dukkha Nanas are a series of stages in the Theravada path to enlightenment, often referred to as the 'Dark Night.' These stages are characterized by potentially terrifying experiences of fear, misery, disgust, and a dissolution of the feeling of self, leading meditators to feel tempted to stop practicing.
Dissociation
Dissociation is a feeling of not feeling like one's self or not feeling like a separate self in the conventional sense, or a sense of disconnection from oneself or reality. It can manifest as feeling like the world isn't real, or being outside of one's own body, and can be a common and scary experience during intense meditation.
Stream Entry
Stream Entry is the first of four major stages of enlightenment in the Theravada Buddhist model, achieved after cycling through 16 sub-stages and a 'cessation' experience where all contents of consciousness disappear. It is marked by specific permanent psychological changes: losing the belief in a separate and unchanging self, losing the belief that rites and rituals are necessary for purification, and losing any doubt in the spiritual path.
Non-Dual Mindfulness
Non-dual mindfulness is a meditation approach that aims to recognize the mind's inherent selfless nature and intrinsic wellbeing, rather than cultivating a state. It posits that consciousness at its most basic level is undivided between subject and object, and is separate from its contents, like the sky is separate from the clouds, and that this recognition brings profound relief.
11 Questions Answered
Meditation is defined as a type of mental training that involves focused and repetitious cognitive engagement in a method, primarily cognitive but with behavioral components, done to cultivate certain mental skills and achieve desirable mental outcomes.
Mindfulness is defined by two core components: an attitude of equanimity (equal acceptance of all experiences without craving or aversion) and meta-awareness (being aware of what you are aware of or knowing what you are doing).
Compassion meditation aims to elicit a state of compassion, defined as the desire for another conscious creature to feel better or have their suffering reduced. It's commonly practiced by repeating compassionate phrases or by imagining loved ones and extending that feeling to others.
The 'Dark Night' refers to a series of stages (Dukkha Nanas) in the Theravada path to enlightenment, characterized by potentially terrifying experiences of fear, misery, disgust, and a dissolution of the feeling of self, which can tempt practitioners to stop meditating.
Dissociation is a feeling of not being one's self, not feeling like a separate self, or a sense of disconnection from oneself or reality. It can be a common and scary experience during intense meditation, particularly in the 'Dark Night' stages, where one might feel like the world isn't real or they are out of their body.
Stream Entry is the first of four major stages of enlightenment in the Theravada model, achieved after 16 sub-stages and a 'cessation' experience. It involves permanent psychological changes, including losing the belief in a separate self, the necessity of rituals for purification, and doubt in the spiritual path.
While many meditation traditions are rooted in religious or spiritual beliefs, particularly in Southeast Asia, many secular organizations in the West teach techniques without imposing religious beliefs. It's possible to fully extract the techniques from religious contexts, though some traditions may still include religious claims in talks.
A technique is something you do (e.g., repeating phrases); a skill is the ability to reliably produce an intended outcome from a technique (e.g., reliably feeling compassion); an insight is a non-conceptual truth learned about the mind or reality (e.g., compassion feels good).
Dukkha, or unsatisfactoriness, is a Buddhist insight claiming that every conscious experience, even blissful ones, is inherently imperfect or has an element that feels 'off' or 'bad' if one pays close enough attention. This insight can motivate further meditation and reduce envy of others.
Non-dual mindfulness is a practice aimed at recognizing the mind's inherent selfless nature and intrinsic wellbeing, where consciousness is viewed as undivided and separate from its contents, like the sky is separate from the clouds. The goal is to glimpse this inherent state of awareness, which is said to bring profound relief.
Three models are discussed: the Theravada four-stage model (permanent changes after cessation), the non-dual model (temporary glimpses of inherent awareness that can become stable), and a permanent model without cessation (sudden self-transcendent experience often preceded by fear of death, leading to lasting change).
18 Actionable Insights
1. Undertake Intensive Meditation Retreats
Participate in long, intensive meditation retreats (e.g., one month, 8-12 hours daily) where external distractions are removed. This immersive practice can lead to profound insights, reduced self-consciousness, and significant, lasting reductions in personal suffering.
2. Cultivate Unconditional Wellbeing
Actively pursue an alternative source of wellbeing that is not dependent on external circumstances or achievements. By cultivating this through meditation, you can find joy in basic activities and feel good for no external reason.
3. Explore Non-Dual Selflessness
Engage in non-dual meditation techniques, such as ’looking for the self’ to find only activity, or the ‘headless way’ (recognizing you cannot see your own head). The aim is to recognize the mind’s inherent selfless nature and access an unconditional source of wellbeing, distinct from the contents of consciousness.
4. Observe Impermanence for Emotion Regulation
Pay close attention to the transient nature of all experiences, particularly negative emotions, noticing how quickly they arise and pass away. This practice can reduce the perceived longevity of negative feelings, enabling more skillful emotion regulation and reducing suffering.
5. Recognize Inherent Unsatisfactoriness (Dukkha)
Cultivate an awareness that every conscious experience, even blissful ones, contains an element of unsatisfactoriness or imperfection. This insight can reduce envy by revealing shared human struggles and motivate deeper self-exploration through meditation.
6. Minimize Time Lost in Thought
Consciously reduce the amount of time you spend lost in thought. Recognizing that a majority of thoughts are often negative or neutral can provide motivation to lessen this habit, thereby improving overall wellbeing.
7. Practice Compassion Meditation
To cultivate compassion, repeat phrases like ‘May you be happy, may you be free from suffering,’ or imagine someone you love and extend that feeling to others, including strangers and those you dislike. This practice intrinsically feels good and offers a unique source of wellbeing.
8. Cultivate Equanimity & Meta-awareness
Practice mindfulness by developing equanimity—accepting all experiences (pleasant, unpleasant, neutral) without craving or aversion—and meta-awareness, which is being aware of your own awareness. This goes beyond simple presence and helps maintain a balanced mental state.
9. Apply Global Mental Noting
Practice mental noting by assigning a label to every primary experience that arises in your awareness, whether it’s a physical sensation, a thought, a sound, or an emotion like boredom. This technique fosters meta-awareness and can make any experience an object of interesting observation.
10. Label Thoughts for Distance
When thoughts arise, label them (e.g., ‘planning,’ ‘worrying’) to create distance from them. This technique, derived from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, can help you feel separate from your thoughts and achieve a sense of calm.
11. Enhance Pleasure Through Presence
Pay close, present attention to everyday activities, such as eating. This practice can significantly amplify the pleasure derived from simple experiences, making them more enjoyable.
12. View Meditation as Techniques
Approach meditation as a collection of psychological techniques rather than a rigid tradition. This allows for flexibility in exploring and combining methods to efficiently achieve personal goals, avoiding dogmatic viewpoints.
13. View Meditation as Diverse Training
Understand meditation as a broad form of mental training involving focused, repetitive cognitive engagement to cultivate various mental skills. This perspective highlights the vast array of techniques available, from attention control to emotion regulation, allowing for a more tailored and effective practice.
14. Observe Mind’s Interdependence
Pay close attention to your mind to notice the causal relationships between thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. This insight, similar to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, reveals how internal experiences influence each other.
15. Embrace Fear in Meditation
If you encounter scary or destabilizing experiences during meditation, embrace the fear and continue the practice, ideally with a teacher’s guidance. These are often signs of mental shifts and can lead to profound insights when navigated without resistance.
16. Practice Body Scan for Equanimity
After focusing on the breath, practice a body scan by slowly moving your attention across your body, noticing all physical sensations (e.g., tightness, tingling) without judgment or attachment. This Goenka Vipassana technique cultivates equanimity towards all bodily experiences.
17. Distinguish Meditation Goals
Maintain a broad, long-term goal for your meditation practice (e.g., wellbeing, insight), but avoid having specific short-term goals for what should happen in the present moment. This approach prevents frustration and allows for authentic experience during practice.
18. Be Skeptical of Rigid Enlightenment Models
Approach highly specific, multi-stage models of enlightenment with a degree of skepticism. While insights are valuable, rigid adherence to dogmatic, unfalsifiable claims about predictable stages may not align with individual experience and can be counterproductive.
10 Key Quotes
I kind of categorized your style of work as non bullshit self help. In contrast to all the bullshit self help. Because it's like it's actually got substance and it's got concrete take home points.
Jeremy
It's that insight that it's not just what we're paying attention to, you know, like pleasant physical sensations. It's how we're paying attention that can feel good in itself and can change the content of experience as well.
Jeremy
I would hypothesize that the vast majority of people would have something a bit scary happen.
Jeremy
You're messing or you're tinkering with this like fundamental machinery of your mind, you know, like foundational perceptions of the way things are like self-dead world out there and things are bound to get shaken up and it's, and it's going to be scary when, when, especially the first time it happens, it's going to be scary, but hopefully you get used to these experiences as you get more, more experience.
Jeremy
If you define distraction as a single moment of the object you're trying to focus on, then I don't think it's possible to go more than like a microsecond because I think, I think our attention is so rapidly changing that it, even if it's just a quick microsecond, it's just going to glance off the object and then come back.
Jeremy
I think this is the happiest moment of my life.
Jeremy
Most of the time being lost in thought is not going to be an experience that makes you feel good.
Jeremy
I just feel like there's, there's a level of self-consciousness that has reduced a huge amount.
Jeremy
I think my suffering on average has reduced by 60%.
Jeremy
The premise of what you're trying to do is you're trying to recognize the way that your mind always already is. So you're not trying to cultivate a state. You're just trying to recognize something that is already there.
Jeremy
2 Protocols
Goenka Vipassana Body Scan
Goenka (described by Jeremy)- Start by focusing on physical sensations at the top of your head.
- Pay attention to whatever sensations are present, emphasizing equanimity (not grasping at pleasant sensations or pushing away unpleasant ones).
- Slowly move your attention down one arm, then the other, through the body.
- Come straight back up, scanning through the body.
- For advanced practice, progress to a 'sweeping technique' where you scan through the whole body quickly.
Mental Noting (Patrick Kearney's style)
Patrick Kearney (described by Jeremy)- Choose the level of label you want to use (e.g., a broad label like 'boredom' or more detailed associated experiences like 'dullness' or 'heaviness').
- Whatever is the primary object of your attention (e.g., boredom, physical sensations, thoughts, sounds), assign a label to it.
- Repeat the label internally (e.g., 'boredom, boredom, boredom').
- Allow your attention to jump to whatever is primary next and label that, creating a meta-awareness of whatever you are aware of.