Suffering and the self (with Jay Garfield)

Oct 30, 2024 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Spencer Greenberg speaks with Jay Garfield, a philosopher specializing in Buddhism, about the nature of suffering, the illusion of the self, and common misconceptions about Buddhist philosophy and ethics. They explore how internal attitudes and perceptions shape our experience of the world.

At a Glance
21 Insights
1h 10m Duration
17 Topics
8 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Buddhist View of Suffering: Craving and Aversion

Pain vs. Suffering: The 'Second Arrow' Concept

Locating Suffering: Internal Psychological Reaction

Internal vs. External Solutions to Suffering

The Buddhist Concept of No-Self

The Self as Illusion: Body, Mind, and Attention

Analytical vs. Experiential Understanding of No-Self

Flow States and the Disappearance of Self-Illusion

Distraction vs. Non-Self-Absorbed Attention

The Illusion of Separateness and Subject-Object Duality

Interdependence and the Pursuit of Happiness

Buddhist Ethics vs. Abrahamic Ethics

Role of Monks and Meditators in Buddhism

Gods in Buddhism: A Cosmological Context

Rebirth vs. Reincarnation in Buddhist Thought

The Buddha: A Historical Figure and Philosopher

Understanding Buddhist Concepts: Meditation and Study

Suffering (Dukkha)

In Buddhism, suffering arises from wanting things we can't have and being averse to things we do have. This attraction and aversion are rooted in fundamental misunderstandings about reality and our own nature, permeating our lives even when unnoticed.

Second Arrow

This concept distinguishes between physical pain and suffering. Pain is the first arrow, an unavoidable physical sensation, but suffering is the 'second arrow'—our mental aversion or reflexive negative reaction to that pain. Without aversion, pain is just pain, not suffering.

Nirvana

Nirvana is the cessation of suffering, described as a 'blowing out of the fires of suffering.' It does not mean an end to experiences, but rather an end to reflexively reacting to experiences with attraction and aversion, dropping the egocentricity of our experiences.

No-Self (Anatta)

Buddhism rejects the existence of a permanent, continuous, purely subjective self, viewing it as an illusion. Instead, what we are are sequences of causally interdependent psychophysical processes in open causal interaction with the world, not an owner behind the body and mind.

Flow States

These are states of deep absorption in an activity where the self-illusion disappears, and one is not consciously aware of oneself as a distinct subject. These states are associated with expertise, pleasure, and joy, and are a natural occurrence in many daily activities like walking or speaking.

Subject-Object Duality

This is the dangerous and pernicious distinction where one perceives oneself as the subject (experiencer) and everything else in the world as objects. This 'polar coordinate view' places oneself at the center of the universe, leading to egocentric attitudes like craving and aversion.

Mudita

A state of moral maturity in Buddhist ethics, which means taking joy in the success and happiness of others. This contrasts with schadenfreude (joy in others' misery) and is seen as a way to enhance one's own well-being by allowing others' happiness to be a source of personal joy.

Rebirth

Distinct from reincarnation (a Hindu doctrine involving a self embodied in different bodies), rebirth in Buddhism refers to the idea that the psychophysical continuum of a person can survive across biological death and birth, as a causal consequence of earlier states. It's also used metaphorically for constant moment-by-moment change within a single life.

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Why do we suffer according to the Buddhist tradition?

We suffer because we crave things we cannot have and are averse to things we do have. This attraction and aversion stem from fundamental misunderstandings about reality and our own nature.

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Is pain the same as suffering?

No, pain and suffering are distinct. Pain is a physical sensation, but suffering is the mental aversion or negative reaction to that pain. Without aversion, pain is merely an experience, not suffering.

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Where is suffering located?

Suffering is located in one's own mind, as an internal psychological reaction to what is happening or not happening, rather than being an intrinsic quality of external events.

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How does the notion of the self in Buddhism relate to freeing oneself from suffering?

Buddhism views the self as an illusion, and much of our suffering derives from positing this self. Dropping the self-illusion helps reduce suffering by removing the egocentric perspective that fuels craving and aversion.

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If there is no self, what experiences happiness or suffering?

Happiness or suffering occurs within the psychological continuum of a person who mistakenly takes themselves to be a self. It's a part of the psychophysical processes, not something happening to a separate, enduring entity.

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How does a 'flow state' relate to the concept of no-self?

In flow states, the self-illusion often disappears; one is absorbed in an activity without conscious awareness of a separate self. Cultivating more flow states in life is a way to live more of life in which the self-illusion falls away, leading to greater happiness.

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Why is it irrational to pursue one's own happiness without regard for others?

It's irrational because humans are hyper-social and deeply interdependent beings. One cannot truly be happy if everyone around them is miserable, and genuine happiness depends on relationships and working for the happiness of others.

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How do Buddhist ethics differ from Abrahamic ethics?

Abrahamic ethics often focus on rights and obligations derived from divine commands, emphasizing individual obedience. Buddhist ethics, without a God, focus on alleviating suffering by transforming one's experience and seeing oneself as part of an interdependent web of existence, rather than on commands or prohibitions.

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What is the role of meditators in Buddhist monasteries?

Meditators are a specialized subclass within monasteries, developing deep insights to share with others and help them cultivate similar understanding. Their practice is not for personal isolation but to become better teachers and resources for the community, similar to how a doctor trains to alleviate suffering in others.

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What is the role of gods in Buddhism?

Gods (devas) in early Indian Buddhism were powerful supernatural beings, part of the natural world and cosmological context, but not like the omniscient, omnipotent Abrahamic God. In many East Asian and Western Buddhist traditions, these deities tend to drop out of central importance, often regarded as part of mythology.

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Is reincarnation the same as rebirth in Buddhism?

No, Buddhism endorses rebirth, not reincarnation. Reincarnation (a Hindu doctrine) implies a self embodied in different bodies. Rebirth in Buddhism refers to the psychophysical continuum of a person surviving across death and birth as a causal consequence, and is also used metaphorically for constant change within a single life.

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Can Buddhist concepts be understood without meditating?

One can understand the concepts and ideas intellectually without meditating, but it may be difficult for them to have a transformative effect without deep familiarity. Meditation helps provide this deep familiarity, though long study, conversations, and immersion in the ideas could also contribute.

1. Reduce Craving and Aversion

Actively work to reduce your attraction to things you don’t have and your aversion to things you do have, as these egocentric attitudes are identified as the fundamental causes of suffering.

2. Differentiate Pain from Suffering

Recognize that physical pain or unpleasant experiences are not inherently suffering; suffering arises from your aversion to that pain or experience. By dropping the aversion, you can experience pain without suffering.

3. Change Internal Psychological Responses

Focus on altering your own psychological responses to external events rather than trying to change the entire world around you, as this internal shift is the path to achieving happiness.

4. Reduce Ego Attachment

Actively work to drop the egocentricity from your experiences and stop thinking that everything is about ‘me’ and ‘what I want’ or ‘don’t want’ to reduce suffering and experience the world more objectively.

5. Recognize Suffering as Internal

Understand that suffering is primarily your own mental and psychological reaction to what is happening, or not happening, around you, rather than an intrinsic quality of external events.

6. Cultivate Flow States

Increase the percentage of your life spent in ‘flow states’ during activities like walking, talking, or sports, as this naturally reduces the self-illusion and leads to a happier life.

7. Depersonalize Suffering

Shift your focus from reducing ‘my’ suffering to releasing suffering in general, recognizing that suffering is a universal phenomenon to be alleviated without needing to determine if it’s yours or someone else’s.

8. Work for Others’ Happiness

Recognize your deep interdependence with others and set your life as a mechanism for making other people happy, as this is the only way to genuinely achieve and enjoy your own happiness.

9. Practice Mudita (Joy in Others)

Cultivate ‘mudita,’ which is taking joy in the success and happiness of others, to enhance your own well-being and transform potential envy or resentment into a source of personal joy.

10. Eradicate Subject-Object Duality

Work to eliminate the dangerous distinction between yourself as a ‘subject’ and the world/others as ‘objects’ in your experience, moving away from a self-centered view of the universe.

11. Transform Abusive Relationships Internally

If in an abusive relationship, focus on transforming your own attitude towards it by cultivating a willingness to let go, rather than attempting the often impossible task of changing the abuser.

12. Understand the Self as Illusion

Engage with the philosophical concept that the ‘self’ is an illusion, an illusory object rather than a real one, as this understanding can help reduce suffering rooted in self-positing.

13. Challenge Self-Concept with Thought Experiments

Use thought experiments, such as imagining yourself with another person’s body or mind, to challenge your reflexive identification with a fixed ‘self’ and recognize it as an owner separate from body and mind.

14. View Attention as Psychological State

When meditating, understand that the ‘spotlight of attention’ is a particular psychological state or experience, not a pure subject or ’experiencer’ behind experiences, to move towards a ’no-self’ understanding.

15. Recognize Sense of Self as Feeling

Perceive the ‘sense of self’ as merely an illusory feeling or sensation, similar to experiencing the color red, rather than a fundamental, permanent aspect of your being.

16. Restructure Perceptual Habits

Engage in long-term meditative practice to fundamentally restructure your perceptual and conceptual habits, which is necessary to overcome the deeply ingrained self-illusion experientially.

17. Practice Non-Self-Absorbed Appreciation

When engaging with art or experiences, cultivate a focus on appreciation, admiration, and gratitude for the creators or the experience itself, rather than becoming lost in personal emotional implication.

18. Actively Notice Self-Disappearance

Become more attentive to moments or periods when the sense of self isn’t present, and actively try to understand what led to those states and how to extend them.

19. Cultivate Moral Commitment to Future

Recognize the causal connections between past lives (ancestors, societal influences) and your current life, and between your current actions and future lives, fostering a moral debt of gratitude and commitment to future generations.

20. Develop Insights for Others’ Suffering

Approach deep personal development practices, such as meditation or monastic training, with the motivation to become a better instrument for alleviating the suffering of others, rather than solely for personal benefit.

21. Seek Deep Familiarity for Transformation

Understand that while intellectual comprehension of Buddhist concepts is possible without meditation, achieving a transformative effect requires deep familiarity, which can be gained through meditative practice, long study, or immersive conversations.

The suffering is what is sometimes called in the Buddhist literature, the second arrow. So, suppose, for instance, I go to the doctor to get a vaccination. I know it's going to hurt a little bit, but that hurting is only suffering if I really don't want it. And if I'm kind of happy to receive that little bit of pain, then that's not suffering. It's just pain.

Jay Garfield

The world is full of rocks and thorns. One thing I could do to stop suffering would be to cover the whole world with leather. The other thing I could do would be to put on a pair of shoes.

Jay Garfield (quoting Shantideva)

If you take your physical nature away, and you take your psychological nature away, there's nothing left. There's no self standing behind that.

Jay Garfield

Thematization of self is associated with incapacity, with amateur status or kind of beginner status, with discomfort, with self-consciousness, with pain and suffering.

Jay Garfield

Anybody who thinks that they can be happy while everybody else is unhappy is out of their minds. And anybody who thinks that there's something very special about their own happiness that makes it worthwhile for them to pursue it, as opposed to the happiness of others, is also out of their minds.

Jay Garfield

Buddhist ethical thought is not particularly concerned with what I ought to do or what I shouldn't do. It's concerned with how I see the world.

Jay Garfield

The word the Buddha, right, it's not a name, it's an epithet. And it means the guy who woke up.

Jay Garfield
about 80 years
Buddha's lifespan Siddhartha Gautama lived for approximately this duration.
about 2,600 years ago
Time since Buddha lived Buddha lived in northern India/southern Nepal.
83%
Percentage of people who found 'life changing questions' valuable Reported by people in scientific studies conducted by Clearer Thinking.
78%
Percentage of people who would recommend 'life changing questions' Reported by people in scientific studies conducted by Clearer Thinking.
88%
Percentage of people who enjoyed answering 'life changing questions' Reported by people in scientific studies conducted by Clearer Thinking.