Building Wiz: the fastest-growing startup in history | Raaz Herzberg (CMO and VP Product Strategy)
Roz Herzberg, CMO & VP of Product Strategy at Wiz, shares how Wiz found hyper-growth after an early pivot. She discusses signals for product-market fit, her unconventional move from product to marketing, and her contrarian views on leadership and brand building.
Deep Dive Analysis
13 Topic Outline
Wiz's Early Days and Initial Idea Challenges
The Essential Pivot and Finding Product-Market Fit
Lessons from Early Customer Interactions and Commitment
Raaz Herzberg's Non-Traditional Career Path to CMO
Understanding the Shifting 'Heat' in a Growing Organization
Challenges and Common Mistakes in the CMO Role
Creating Noise and Standing Out in Marketing
Embracing Failure and Taking Risks in Your Career
Critical Lessons for Product Leaders from a Marketing Lens
The Importance of 'Dummy Explanations' and Clear Communication
Building Trust and a Loyal Company Culture at Wiz
Contrarian View: Embracing Imposter Syndrome
Why Wiz Chose to Remain an Independent Company
5 Key Concepts
Bias for Affirmation
As human beings, there's a natural tendency to seek positive reinforcement and what you want to hear from others, rather than actively listening for negative signals or what you don't want to hear. This bias can mislead early-stage companies when gathering customer feedback, as customers might be polite rather than genuinely enthusiastic.
Following the Heat
This mental model describes how the critical focus or 'heat' within a startup shifts as it grows. Initially, it might be in product development, then engineering, then sales, and eventually marketing, as each area becomes the primary bottleneck or growth driver that needs the most attention and talent.
Marketing vs. Product Cost of Mistakes
Product development has a high cost for mistakes; adding a feature consumes valuable engineering time and can't easily be removed without complicating the product. In contrast, marketing has a low cost for mistakes; a failed campaign or piece of content can simply be abandoned with no lasting maintenance or technical debt.
The Dummy Explanation
This concept emphasizes the need to simplify communication, especially as a company scales, by not assuming deep knowledge from your audience. It means explaining everything in a way that anyone, even someone outside your internal 'bubble' or technical domain, can easily understand, avoiding jargon or complex terminology.
Embracing Imposter Syndrome
Instead of trying to build confidence to overcome imposter syndrome, this approach suggests acknowledging and accepting the feeling of being an imposter. The key is not to let this feeling prevent you from taking on new challenges or making decisions, recognizing that it's normal to feel like an imposter in a new or challenging role.
7 Questions Answered
You know you've found product-market fit when customers start asking about pricing, requesting Proof of Value (POV) engagements, or proactively connecting you to other team members, indicating a strong, urgent desire for the product rather than just polite interest.
By doing early sales, the core team gains deep learning about customer needs and the sales process. It also provides confidence to future sales hires, as the founders can demonstrate that the product can indeed be sold.
Raaz moved to marketing because it became a critical bottleneck for Wiz's scaling, specifically in building brand awareness. She recognized that even for B2B products, brand is crucial for growth, and she was willing to attempt to solve this challenge for the company.
CMOs often struggle due to a lack of deep trust with the founding team, insufficient connection to the product and market, and the inherently diverse and challenging nature of managing disparate marketing functions like performance, brand, and events.
Product leaders need to understand the criticality of marketing and product marketing in bridging the gap between technical product understanding and external market perception. They must deliver crystal-clear, black-and-white messages about the product, avoiding fuzzy or overly complex terminology that gets lost in translation as the organization scales.
To simplify complex information, constantly remind yourself that your audience doesn't live in your internal 'bubble.' Avoid assuming prior knowledge about your company, product, or deep market specifics, and always strive to use straight and simple language, even for technical concepts.
A culture of psychological safety allows employees, regardless of seniority, to speak up when they don't understand something or when they believe the team might be on the wrong path. This openness can lead to crucial discussions and pivots, fostering a more impactful and loyal team.
15 Actionable Insights
1. Embrace Failure & Imposter Syndrome
Embrace the possibility of failure and imposter syndrome, rather than letting it hinder action. Be okay with being “pretty sure you’ll fail” but still attempt new challenges, as this empowers you to grow and take opportunities.
2. Ask “I Don’t Understand”
Cultivate a culture where it’s safe to admit “I don’t understand” or ask for clarification, even if it feels vulnerable. This can uncover fundamental issues and lead to critical pivots or clearer understanding.
3. Seek Growth Through Friction
Seek out “friction” and challenges in areas where you are less confident, rather than solely focusing on strengths. Hard work and pushing through discomfort in new areas lead to greater growth and learning.
4. Conduct High Volume Customer Calls
Conduct a high volume of customer calls (e.g., 10-15 daily) in the early stages to rapidly discover what isn’t working and find genuine product-market fit. This intense interaction is crucial for early learning.
5. Look for Customer “Pull” Signals
Look for strong “pull” signals from customers indicating genuine interest and intent to commit, such as asking about pricing, wanting a Proof of Value (POV), or offering to connect you to their team. This shows real passion for the solution.
6. Don’t Mistake Polite Interest
Don’t mistake polite interest for deep enthusiasm or product-market fit. People are often incentivized to be nice; look for clear signals of intent to buy or commit, not just “sounds interesting.”
7. Seek Customer Commitment
Don’t be afraid to ask for commitment from potential customers, even by presenting hurdles like detailed questionnaires before a Proof of Value (POV). This ensures they genuinely want the product and are invested in the process.
8. Founders Do Early Sales
Founders and the core team should personally handle early sales (up to a couple of million ARR) to deeply understand the selling process and customer needs. This builds confidence for future sales hires and ensures the core team can execute end-to-end.
9. Follow Organizational “Heat”
Pay attention to where the “heat” (most critical challenges or opportunities) is within the organization as it evolves. Align your efforts and potentially your career path with these high-impact areas to drive the most value.
10. Embrace Marketing Experimentation
Treat marketing as an arena for rapid experimentation with low cost of failure, unlike product development. Try everything to make noise and stand out, as failed attempts have no lasting technical debt or maintenance.
11. Differentiate Brand & Messaging
Intentionally differentiate your brand and messaging to stand out, especially in crowded markets. Adopt a unique, positive, and optimistic approach rather than conforming to industry norms.
12. Deliver Crystal-Clear Product Messages
Product leaders must deliver crystal-clear, black-and-white messages about their product, avoiding fluff or blurriness. This clarity is crucial for marketing and sales teams to effectively bridge the gap between technical details and the broader market.
13. Provide “Dummy Explanations”
Always provide a “dummy explanation” for your product and market, assuming no prior knowledge from the audience. Avoid jargon and complex terminology to ensure messages are universally understandable, as customers don’t live in your company’s “bubble.”
14. Embrace Simplicity in Solutions
If a solution, product feature, or life problem feels too complex, it’s likely not the right solution. Take a step back and revisit it later to find a simpler, more elegant approach.
15. CMO Success Factors
For CMOs, cultivate deep trust with the founding team and possess a profound understanding of the product and market. Recognize the role’s diverse skill requirements, spanning performance marketing, brand, design, and events, which makes it inherently challenging.
7 Key Quotes
I don't know what we are talking about exactly. Now, I really thought I don't know what we're talking about. Like I thought they all understood what we're building. And I thought every customer we had in the call understood what we're building. It's just that I did not understand what we're building.
Raaz Herzberg
If you can't do it one time end to end and you're like the core, core, core group, the chances of just bringing somebody from the outside to solve that problem, it's wishful in some ways. I, but it never ends up that way.
Raaz Herzberg
I think naturally as human beings, you have a bias to look for affirmation versus like a bias for what you don't want to hear.
Raaz Herzberg
If you decide to build a feature in a product, then A, you're taking engineering time, which is the most valuable resource in every company, in my opinion. And B, in some ways you can never take it back. Like it's complicated your product. ... Marketing is quite the opposite in my opinion. There is no cost to anything, no maintenance to anything, no technical depth, no anything.
Raaz Herzberg
I won't be able to build with confidence. I do feel like an imposter. And I know there's always like those statistics about many people feeling that way. So I think like maybe just like, let's embrace it. I feel like an imposter. You feel like an imposter. Everybody feels like an imposter. It's like kind of maybe embrace it, but don't let that, um, stop you from, from making a decision.
Raaz Herzberg
My mom really believed that like, if you're good at something. So that's not where you should invest your energy. Like she really believed in like kind of pushing us, like pushing us to the places where we're less confident than I guess.
Raaz Herzberg
If you start getting too, if something starts getting too complex and you don't know how to design it or how to find end from start, it does mean it's not the right solution. It's too complex.
Raaz Herzberg