How to achieve hypergrowth in your business and career | Carilu Dietrich (Atlassian, Miro, Segment, 1Password)

Apr 30, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Keri-Lew Dietrich, former CMO and advisor to hypergrowth B2B companies, shares insights on achieving hypergrowth, making strategic changes, building trust with CEOs, and essential career advice for executive roles.

At a Glance
78 Insights
1h 7m Duration
16 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Habits and Behaviors for Reaching Executive Roles

Five Principles for Advancing to the C-Suite

Choosing the Right Company for Accelerated Career Growth

Criteria for Identifying a Phenomenal Company

Navigating the Job Market During a Recession

Lessons from Expensive Brand Advertising Campaigns

Common Traits of Successful Hypergrowth Companies

Accelerating Word-of-Mouth Marketing

Atlassian's Product-Led Growth Strategy and Sales Timing

Overcoming Roadblocks to Growth and Strategic Alignment

Building Trust Between CEOs and CMOs

Challenges and Longevity of C-Suite Roles

Bundling Strategies for Product-Led Growth Companies

Recommended Books and Life Philosophies

Effective Interview Questions and Product Discovery

Impactful Product Building Approaches and Meditation Tips

Hypergrowth Companies

These companies experience stages of growth that typically take others 5-10 years, rapidly scaling from 10 to 50, 50 to 100, or 100 to 200. They require continuous hiring of '2x and 3x leaders' who have experience with the next stage of growth to keep pace with their rapid expansion.

Rule of 40

A financial metric used to evaluate a company's health, combining its profitability and growth rate. It helps assess whether a company is growing efficiently while maintaining a reasonable profit margin.

Net Dollar Retention (NDR)

A measure of how much revenue a company retains from its existing customers over a period, including upgrades, downgrades, and churn. A high NDR (e.g., 180%) indicates that existing customers are significantly increasing their spend, driving substantial growth without needing new customers.

Product-Led Growth (PLG)

A business strategy where the product itself drives customer acquisition, expansion, and retention. It relies on users discovering value quickly through self-service, often delaying or minimizing the need for a traditional sales force.

Best of Breed vs. All-in-One

Two competing philosophies in software: 'Best of Breed' focuses on offering a single, superior product for a specific function, while 'All-in-One' provides a comprehensive suite of integrated products. All-in-one solutions may offer convenience and discounts but often compromise on the quality of individual components compared to best-of-breed options.

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What are the key personal habits and behaviors that help someone reach an executive role?

Key habits include working harder, learning more, pushing oneself, taking on more responsibilities and opportunities (especially in 'white space' roles), having a great attitude, and developing a strategic mind. It often requires significant sacrifice of personal time.

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How can one identify a phenomenal company for accelerated career growth?

Look for companies with high momentum, strong financials (e.g., Rule of 40), top-tier investors (especially in recent rounds), high customer satisfaction (NPS), strong net dollar retention, high growth rates, low burn rates, market leadership, and positive Glassdoor reviews.

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What advice is there for finding a job or advancing a career during a recession or economic downturn?

If unemployed, focus on endurance, grit, networking, and continuous skill growth, avoiding settling for a 'crappy' job. If employed, view it as an opportunity to learn more, pitch for new responsibilities, and build value for future monetization, as others may 'take their foot off the gas'.

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Is word-of-mouth growth essential for hypergrowth, or can companies succeed with other channels?

While hypergrowth companies often rely on organic inbound and viral word-of-mouth because you 'can't pay enough' for those rates, other channels like strong SEO, SEM, and account-based marketing are still crucial. Success comes from consistency, customer obsession, and incremental improvements across all business parts.

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How can companies accelerate word-of-mouth marketing?

Accelerate word-of-mouth by empowering employees as thought leaders, implementing a strong content strategy in existing online and open-source communities, and building your own customer community where happy users can connect and advocate for the product.

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When is the right time for a product-led growth company to hire its first salesperson?

It depends on the product and market; some products allow users to get value in days, supporting PLG, while others need context and customization. Companies like Atlassian delayed sales significantly, focusing sales on renewals or enterprise accounts after a user threshold was met, rather than net new prospecting.

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What often prevents companies from making big changes to their growth strategy?

The biggest roadblock is when growth initiatives are treated as individual departmental goals rather than cross-company strategic objectives. Without alignment across product, marketing, sales, and support, efforts to enter new markets or segments often fail due to a lack of unified direction and resources.

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How can trust be built between a CEO and a CMO?

CMOs build trust by focusing on revenue, having a strong grasp of metrics, providing solid predictions for growth levers, and communicating in terms understood by the CEO and board. They also need to be strong leaders, hire great teams, and be strategic about market space and future growth areas.

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Why do CMOs and CPOs often get fired in startups?

These are incredibly hard, strategy-focused roles with results that are often difficult to measure directly. They frequently become scapegoats when a company underperforms, as leadership might believe a new hire will be more strategic or deliver faster, even if the underlying issues are systemic.

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What is the 'Amazon concept' for product ideation?

The Amazon concept involves writing the product's press release at the very beginning of the ideation process. This 'start with the end in mind' approach helps ensure the product has a clear theme, resonates with the market, and aligns marketing and product teams on the desired outcome before development begins.

1. Build an Amazing Product

The most critical factor for hypergrowth is having an amazing product that people genuinely love to use, as seen with products like ChatGPT.

2. Prioritize Organic & Viral Growth

To achieve hypergrowth and build a viable company, focus on generating organic inbound and viral word-of-mouth, as paying for growth at those rates is unsustainable, especially in efficient economic markets.

3. Combine Product & Viral Activity

For hypergrowth, ensure you have an amazing product combined with inherent viral activity, where users naturally promote it to others, making growth highly efficient.

4. Observe Early Customer Journeys

For early customers, deeply observe their entire product usage process, step-by-step, to understand their reactions and feelings, which is crucial for building a product they love.

5. Secure Product-Market Fit First

Before scaling marketing, ensure you’ve achieved product-market fit by consistently selling to a clear ideal customer profile, as scaling efforts without this foundation are not repeatable.

6. Build Non-Scalable Processes Early

In the super early stage of a company (seed to Series A, under $10M), build processes that don’t scale first to go deep and understand customer needs intimately.

7. Focus on Differentiated Product

Founders should double down on creating a product that is differentiated and truly loved by customers, recognizing that each incremental step contributes to overall progress.

8. Sustain Growth with Core Principles

Hypergrowth is achieved through consistency, deep customer obsession, and continuous incremental improvements across all parts of the business, not a magic bullet.

9. Leverage User-Driven Virality

Amplify natural points where your users sell to other people, as this user-driven virality is significantly more efficient for growth than relying on salespeople.

10. Evaluate Product for PLG Fit

Assess if your product offers quick time-to-value (days) for product-led growth, or if it requires context, customization, or if your market prefers offline buying, necessitating a sales team.

11. Single Product for PLG Land

For product-led growth, avoid bundling products as an initial “land” strategy, as it slows down the motion; instead, land with a single product that offers high velocity and quick value.

12. Test Everything, Use Data

The secret to product-led growth is to test everything, relying on data-led insights over anecdotal advice to determine what truly works.

13. Cautious Sales Hiring

Avoid hiring sales and inside sales teams too fast or too far ahead, as it can be a huge cost and drain on the business if the product lacks sufficient resonance.

14. Evolve SDRs to Sales Engineers

Transform SDRs into sales engineers or researchers who guide customers through the product-led growth path, offering assistance rather than just scheduling sales meetings.

15. Integrate Sales with PLG

Integrate sales (SDRs/AEs) with product-led growth to meet investor expectations for accelerated and predictable revenue, as pure PLG is rarely feasible in today’s market.

16. Threshold-Based Sales Engagement

Engage salespeople only after a high threshold of users (e.g., 20-40 people) at an account are already actively using and paying for the product, as this indicates strong product-market fit.

17. Leverage ABM for Sales Efficiency

Use account-based marketing (ABM) and intent-based signals to engage salespeople only with customers who are actually likely to buy, increasing sales efficiency.

18. Prioritize Existing Customer Sales

Focus sales efforts primarily on existing customers for renewals, cross-sell, and upsell, as net new prospecting is a very expensive way to acquire customers.

19. Bundle Strategically by GTM

Bundling is not effective for product-led growth but can be very effective for a sales-led motion when a company is at the right stage of growth.

20. Be Best-of-Breed to Win

To compete against powerful “all-in-one” bundled offerings, be “best of breed” with a product that is so much better that customers are willing to pay extra for it.

21. Hire Ahead for Growth Stages

Hypergrowth companies should hire 2x and 3x leaders who have already experienced the next stage of growth, as these stages arrive much faster than anticipated.

22. Proactively Seek Growth Mentors

In hypergrowth companies, leaders should proactively hire advisors and cultivate mentors and friendships with people who understand what “great” looks like at the next scale, as growth happens fast.

23. Cross-Company Growth Strategy

For growth levers to make a real difference, they must be cross-company strategic goals, not just individual department objectives.

24. Align Departments for Strategic Shifts

When pursuing a strategic shift, like moving to enterprise, ensure all departments (marketing, product, research, support, sales) align their efforts and adapt their functions to the new target.

25. C-Suite Drives Strategic Solutions

Strategic problems, like growth levers, must be addressed by the CEO or the entire C-suite coming together to solve them, rather than pushing them aside.

26. Select High-Momentum Companies

Your career trajectory and ability to get bigger jobs faster are highly dependent on the momentum of the companies you work for, so choose wisely.

27. Identify Future Success Stories

Early in your career, seek out companies poised for super success, as this experience will transform your entire career through resume recognition, networking, and financial benefits.

28. Aggressively Target Top Companies

Early in your career, don’t “wimp out”; aggressively pursue big-name, high-momentum companies by applying year after year and networking to get in.

29. Company Evaluation Checklist

Use a 10-point checklist to evaluate a company’s momentum: Rule of 40, investor quality, recent funding rounds, NPS/customer satisfaction, net dollar retention, growth rate, burn rate, market leadership, and Glassdoor reviews.

30. Leverage Networks from Great Companies

Working for great companies connects you with great people who will go on to other companies and can provide future career opportunities.

31. Ride Industry Waves

Actively chase industry waves (e.g., moving into high-growth sectors like tech, SaaS, or AI) to significantly propel your career, alongside choosing the right company and performing well.

32. Accelerate Executive Career Growth

To advance to the executive suite, work harder, continuously learning, pushing personal boundaries, and actively seeking responsibilities and opportunities even outside your defined role.

33. Invest Extra Hours Consistently

Consistently working extra hours, such as two hours later than colleagues daily, can compound into significantly more experience over several years, accelerating career growth.

34. Volunteer for Cross-Functional Roles

Volunteer for responsibilities in other departments to gain insights into how the whole system works, which can make you more successful throughout your career.

35. Embrace Interim Leadership Roles

If a department head leaves, volunteer to be the interim for that function while maintaining your own responsibilities to demonstrate your appetite and skill for more leadership to top executives.

36. C-Suite Personal Development

To reach the C-suite, focus on learning as much as possible about your expertise, working really hard, taking on more responsibilities, and maintaining a great attitude with a strategic mind.

37. Embrace Consistent, Deep Work

Recognize there are no shortcuts to deep knowledge; consistent, disciplined effort over a long period, such as writing three to four blogs a week for 10 years, is essential for building expertise.

38. Align with CEO/Board Priorities

Think and talk in terms of the CEO and the board by connecting your responsibilities directly to revenue, even when you’re junior and lack direct exposure.

39. Master Business Finance

Gain a strong handle on the business’s finances and how its revenue works, as understanding the entire system is crucial for C-suite positions.

40. Understand All Departments

Proactively visit and learn about what other departments are working on, including their challenges and opportunities, to understand how the entire system functions and facilitate career advancement.

41. Undertake Departmental Tours

Actively seek “tours of duty” in different departments to gain a comprehensive understanding of how the entire business system works together.

42. Build Strong Relationships

Build really strong relationships with people by consistently doing good work and actively helping them, which is crucial for career progression.

43. CMO: Focus on Revenue Impact

As a CMO, focus on revenue generation and clearly demonstrate how marketing drives it, ensuring the CEO sees you as a partner who understands the financial impact.

44. CMO: Master Metrics & Board Talk

CMOs must have a strong handle on metrics, offer solid predictions for growth levers, and effectively communicate in the terms of the CEO and the board to build trust.

45. CMO: Strategic Leadership & Team Building

CMOs must be strong leaders who run their business well, hire great teams, think thoughtfully and strategically about market opportunities, and consistently think ahead.

46. CMO: Build Trust with Data & Strategy

CMOs build trust with CEOs by being proficient in metrics, strong in strategy, and knowledgeable about the market, enabling productive and trusting discussions.

47. Learn from Scaling CMOs

Seek to learn from the rare CMOs who have successfully scaled a company from its early stages all the way through significant growth, as their insights are invaluable.

48. Understand CPO/CMO Role Risks

Recognize that CPO and CMO roles are strategic, involve results difficult to measure, and are often impacted by overall company performance, leading to higher turnover rates.

49. Cultivate Endurance for Fit

Cultivate endurance to keep going and find the next role where you are a true fit and the company has strong momentum, rather than giving up after setbacks.

50. Leverage Downturns for Growth

Use economic downturns for career growth by learning more and pitching yourself for new roles or responsibilities that others aren’t covering, as many people take their foot off the gas.

51. Prioritize Value Over Title/Salary

During economic downturns, focus on building value and experience rather than title and salary, as this investment will be monetized on the other side of the recession.

52. Empower Thought Leadership

Empower your employees, including founders, to be thought leaders by actively engaging in relevant online communities and forums, which drives word-of-mouth and community engagement.

53. Content for Existing Communities

Implement a strong content strategy within existing online communities, such as open-source forums, to foster engagement and drive word-of-mouth.

54. Cultivate Customer Community

Build your own community of happy customers, as they are the best salespeople for your product and can generate significant word-of-mouth.

55. Organize Local User Groups

Organize local user group communities, facilitating meetups where customers can discuss products, development, and network, which benefits both existing users and prospects.

56. Ensure Fantastic Product Quality

The quality of your product is the most important thing; ensure it is truly fantastic, as even massive advertising spend cannot compensate for a poor product experience.

57. Sustain Strategic Brand Advertising

For effective brand advertising, spend consistently over a long period, focusing a smaller amount on a fewer number of things, as this sustained and strategic approach can be highly effective.

58. Targeted Ads, Product First

An incredible product is essential; advertising merely amplifies it. Opt for one very targeted, sustained ad spend rather than blanketing many ads, as this can be more effective.

59. Advertising Amplifies, Not Creates

Recognize that advertising merely amplifies your product; it cannot make a poor product successful or compensate for uptime and feature issues.

60. Craft Memorable Advertising

Create advertising that has a twist of humor, personality, or truth to make it memorable and stick in people’s brains, like campaigns featuring “data nerds.”

61. Design Authentic, Engaging Ads

Design advertising campaigns that are funny, unexpected, and true to the product to ensure they stand out and resonate effectively.

62. Preserve Deep Customer Insight

As your company grows, actively work to preserve deep insight into the daily struggles and experiences of your customers, as this becomes harder to obtain.

63. Adopt Multi-Product Strategy

Small and medium-sized companies should transition to a multi-product strategy to diversify their financial model, sell new products to existing customers, and expand their total addressable market for significant growth.

64. Evaluate Career Trade-offs

Before pursuing an executive career, evaluate the significant trade-offs and sacrifices required against personal life, family, hobbies, and passions, as this path isn’t for everyone.

65. Endure Unemployment with Grit

If unemployed, maintain endurance and grit, remembering that worrying is wasted energy, as you will eventually find another job despite a potentially bumpy ride.

66. Avoid Settling for Subpar Roles

Do not settle for a crappy job or company, as each position and company logo on your resume prepares you for the next, influencing your future opportunities.

67. Ask Better Questions

Embrace the “more Yoda, less Wonder Woman” philosophy by focusing on asking better, more insightful questions to gain deeper understanding.

68. Commit Fully to Action

Adopt the “Do or do not. There is no try” mindset, committing fully to actions rather than merely attempting them.

69. Apply “Hell Yes or No” Filter

When evaluating opportunities, use the “hell yes or no” filter: if it doesn’t genuinely excite you and provide energy, decline it, as you have limited time to be your best.

70. Transform Worry into Action

Recognize that worrying is wasted energy; instead, thank fear and uncertainty for providing urgency, then create a list of what you can control and what to do next.

71. Read “The Tao Te Ching”

Read “The Tao Te Ching” (Stephen Mitchell translation) for a philosophy about the flow of life, which can provide profound insights and guidance.

72. Read “Never Split the Difference”

Read “Never Split the Difference” by a former CIA hostage negotiator to learn effective negotiation strategies applicable in both work and personal life.

73. Negotiate with Empathy

In negotiations, deeply put yourself in the other person’s shoes to understand their needs and find a win-win solution, rather than strong-arming your own desires.

74. Focus on Others’ Interests

To build rapport and influence, focus on thinking about others and their interests, rather than talking about yourself, as people prefer to be thought of.

75. Reflect & Practice Gratitude

Watch “Everything Everywhere All at Once” to reflect on how small decisions shape your life and to cultivate an appreciation for the life you have, even if it’s not what you imagined.

76. Interview Question: Firing Experience

When interviewing managers, ask “How many people have you fired and tell me about each experience?” to gain insight into their leadership, compassion, business drive, and ability to handle pressure.

77. Start Product with Press Release

Adopt Amazon’s practice of writing a press release at the beginning of product ideation to ensure a clear, marketable theme and desired outcome, preventing a “bag of doorknobs” product.

78. Consistent, Guided Meditation

Meditate consistently by making time to be present and breathe, understanding there’s no right or wrong way; use guided meditations (like Tara Brach or Meditation Oasis) if needed, and just stick with it.

There's no shortcuts, cuts to knowing a lot. Like one of the people I admire most is Tomas Tongues, who was with Redpoint and now started his own VC firm. And I was talking to him about his blog and he was like, I just wake up like five or 6 a.m. every morning and write three to four blogs a week for 10 years. Damn, like that is self-discipline and like insight and drive. And so, yeah, no shortcuts, I think.

Carilu Dietrich

More Yoda, less Wonder Woman, which basically is, like, ask better questions.

Carilu Dietrich

Hell yes or no. Like, when opportunities come to you and you're like, oh, should I do this or should I not do this? You know, you only have so much time in your life. And so, if it's not, like, something that really, like, excites you and gives you energy, it's tough to be at the best at it.

Carilu Dietrich

Worrying is wasted energy because I think, you know, we live in this economic pressure cooker and there's a lot of fear and uncertainty, but we just need to take that fear and uncertainty and, like, thank it for giving us urgency and then make the list of, like, what can we control now and what should we do next?

Carilu Dietrich

Your product has to really be fantastic. And then also to do good brand advertising, it has to be sustained over a long period of time.

Carilu Dietrich

Hyper growth companies, in order to get hyper growth, you have to have organic inbound and viral word of mouth. You can't pay enough to grow at those rates and have a viable company, especially in this, you know, economic efficiency market.

Carilu Dietrich

Firing people is the hardest part of a leader's career. So how they talk about it like, you know, their compassion and like their need to like drive the business and like the circumstances like was it layoffs how how did that work did you have to performance manage someone out how did it work did you just have to restructure the team because of business goals how did it work gives you a lot of insight into their experience and their humanity in a way that they're not prepared for so you really get the real story and get a sense for what they would be like as a leader under a lot of pressure and difficult situations.

Carilu Dietrich

Five Principles for C-Suite Advancement

Carilu Dietrich
  1. Think and talk in terms of revenue, understanding how responsibilities tie to the business's finances and revenue generation.
  2. Gain a strong understanding of finance and how the business's money works.
  3. Undertake 'tours of duty' in different departments to understand how the entire system works together.
  4. Build strong relationships with colleagues by doing good work and helping them.
  5. Work for high-quality companies with strong momentum to gain higher-level experiences and accelerate career growth.

Evaluating a Phenomenal Company for Career or Advisory

Carilu Dietrich
  1. Assess the 'Rule of 40' (profitability + growth).
  2. Evaluate the quality of investors, especially in their most recent funding rounds.
  3. Consider the company's size and stage; later stages often offer more reliable momentum.
  4. Check their Net Promoter Score (NPS) or customer satisfaction to gauge product love.
  5. Analyze their Net Dollar Retention (NDR) for revenue growth from existing customers.
  6. Review their growth rate from the previous year.
  7. Examine their burn rate to ensure they won't run out of money.
  8. Determine if they are a market leader (e.g., recognized by Forrester or Gartner).
  9. Check Glassdoor reviews to assess employee happiness and work environment.

Accelerating Word-of-Mouth Marketing

Carilu Dietrich
  1. Empower people within your company to be thought leaders and deeply engaged experts in their fields.
  2. Develop a strong content strategy that provides thoughtful, helpful information within existing online and open-source communities.
  3. Build your own customer community to foster connections and allow happy customers to advocate for your product.
2 hours
Carilu's extra work hours per day early in her career Worked 'two hours later than everyone else on the team' for five years to gain experience.
3-4 blogs per week
Tomasz Tunguz's blog post frequency For 10 years, waking up at 5-6 AM to write.
5 to 7 people
Oracle team growth under Carilu Over five years as a leader.
15 to 100 people
Atlassian team growth under Carilu Over four years as a leader.
142% to 180%
Snowflake's Net Dollar Retention (NDR) Benchmark for strong, healthy business, indicating almost doubling revenue from existing customers.
35%
Worst oil and gas company profit margin Compared to 1-2% for best antique store and 65% for worst software companies, highlighting industry profitability.
15-25%
Atlassian's leads from paid search (SEO/SEM) Percentage of leads generated from paid search marketing at the time.
2x-3x
Atlassian's R&D spend compared to other companies Atlassian spent 2-3 times more on R&D than other benchmarked companies, investing in product to make it self-selling.
30 million to 500 million
Carilu's advisory client company size range Revenue range of hypergrowth CEOs and CMOs Carilu advises.
100 million to 500 million
Carilu's Atlassian tenure growth range Revenue range during Carilu's time at Atlassian.