How to build deeper, more robust relationships | Carole Robin (Stanford GSB professor, “Touchy Feely”)

Apr 25, 2024 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Today's episode features Carol Robin, who taught Stanford's "Touchy Feely" course and authored "Connect." She discusses building robust relationships, effective leadership through vulnerability, giving constructive feedback, and overcoming limiting mental models.

At a Glance
20 Insights
1h 26m Duration
15 Topics
10 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

The Importance of Robust, Meaningful Relationships

Stanford's 'Touchy Feely' Interpersonal Dynamics Course

Experiential Learning in the T-Groups

Leaders in Tech: Expanding Interpersonal Competence Training

Progressive Disclosure and the 15% Rule

The Power of Appropriate Vulnerability for Leaders

Understanding and Updating Limiting Mental Models

The Three Realities Framework and 'Staying on Your Side of the Net'

The Art of Inquiry: Asking Effective Questions

The Possibility of Personal Change and Behavioral Control

Repairing Relationships When Feedback Goes Sideways

Why Giving Advice Often Hinders Relationships

AFOG: Another Opportunity for Growth from Failure

Characteristics of Exceptional Relationships

Lessons from Living with Long COVID

Robust, Meaningful Relationships

Relationships exist on a continuum from 'contact and no connection' (dysfunction) to 'exceptional.' The goal is to develop skills that move relationships to at least 'functional and robust,' and then optionally to 'exceptional' for a select few. These skills are crucial for personal and professional success, leading to stronger teams, organizations, and communities.

Exceptional Relationships

These are high-quality relationships characterized by being better known by the other person, knowing the other person better, trusting that disclosures won't be used against you, being able to be honest with each other, knowing how to resolve conflict productively, and being committed to each other's learning and growth. They allow individuals to not hide important parts of themselves and deal with major issues, even if scary.

15% Rule

This rule suggests stepping just a little bit (15%) outside your comfort zone when disclosing information or giving feedback. This small step allows for learning and deeper connection without overwhelming yourself or the other person, gradually expanding your comfort zone over time.

Appropriate Vulnerability

This is the willingness to disclose personal feelings or admit mistakes in a way that builds credibility and trust, rather than appearing weak or unprofessional. It involves being transparent about challenges or emotions (e.g., fear, worry) to rally support and foster deeper connection, contrasting with pretending nothing is wrong or oversharing inappropriately.

Anger as a Secondary Emotion

Anger is often a surface emotion that masks deeper, more vulnerable feelings like fear or hurt. While anger is a distancing emotion, expressing the underlying fear or hurt can lead to connection and problem-solving, as it allows others to empathize and respond constructively.

Mental Models

These are deeply held beliefs and assumptions, often formed early in life or career, that drive our choices and behaviors. While initially helpful, they can become outdated and limit our potential if not updated through new experiences and self-awareness, preventing us from adapting to new situations or seeing alternative outcomes.

Three Realities Framework

In any interpersonal exchange, there are three distinct realities: my intent (how I see the world), my behavior (what I do or say), and your impact (how my behavior affects you and your reality). The key insight is that we are only privy to two out of the three (our intent and our behavior), and we must avoid assuming the other person's intent or impact.

Stay on Your Side of the Net

This metaphor advises individuals to stick to the two realities they know (their own intent and their observable behavior) and avoid making assumptions or attributions about the other person's intent, feelings, or reality. This practice is crucial for giving feedback constructively and avoiding defensiveness.

Art of Inquiry

Inquiry involves asking questions with a genuine quest for understanding, suspending judgment, and not seeking to confirm a hypothesis. Effective inquiry uses open-ended questions starting with 'what, when, where, how' and avoids 'why,' which can make others defensive or shut down.

AFOG (Another F***ing Opportunity for Growth)

This acronym reframes failures or mistakes not as endpoints, but as valuable opportunities for learning and personal growth. It encourages individuals to extract lessons from setbacks, putting them into perspective and fostering resilience.

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What are robust, meaningful relationships and why are they important?

Robust, meaningful relationships exist on a continuum from mere contact to exceptional connection. They are crucial for a richer, fuller life, and interpersonal competence in building them is a determinant of both personal and professional success, leading to stronger teams, communities, and even government.

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How does the '15% rule' help build better relationships?

The '15% rule' encourages individuals to step slightly outside their comfort zone when disclosing or giving feedback. This small, manageable step fosters learning and deeper connection without causing undue discomfort or 'freaking out' either party, gradually expanding the comfort zone over time.

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Why is vulnerability essential for great leadership?

Appropriate vulnerability makes a leader stronger and more influential because it allows them to be seen as human, inspiring trust and loyalty. By admitting mistakes or sharing genuine feelings like fear or worry, leaders can foster connection and motivate their team to rally and solve problems together.

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How do mental models formed early in life impact us later?

Mental models are beliefs and assumptions developed early in our careers or lives that guide our behavior. While initially useful, they can become outdated and limit our potential if we don't recognize and update them, preventing us from adapting to new situations or seeing new possibilities.

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What are the 'three realities' in interpersonal interactions and how do they relate to 'staying on your side of the net'?

The three realities are my intent, my behavior, and your impact. We only know our own intent and behavior, and the observed behavior. 'Staying on your side of the net' means sticking to what you know (your intent and behavior) and avoiding assumptions about the other person's intent or feelings, which often leads to defensiveness.

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How can I give feedback effectively without making people defensive?

To avoid defensiveness, focus on specific, observable behaviors rather than labels or imputed motives, and express your feelings using 'I feel' statements. Frame the feedback as data for problem-solving, aiming to build the relationship by showing you are invested in the other person and the shared outcome.

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Why should leaders avoid giving immediate advice?

Giving immediate advice can create greater power differentials, put undue pressure on the leader to always have answers, and hinder the other person's learning and growth. Instead, leaders should act as thought partners, using inquiry to help individuals explore options and arrive at their own solutions, fostering development and reducing dependency.

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How can I build exceptional relationships?

Exceptional relationships are built by allowing yourself to be known, getting to know the other person better, establishing trust that disclosures won't be used against you, being honest, resolving conflict productively, and committing to each other's learning and growth. It's about not hiding important parts of yourself and being able to deal with major issues together.

1. Recognize Anger’s True Roots

Understand that anger is often a secondary emotion masking deeper feelings like fear or hurt; leading with these connecting emotions can foster understanding and rally support more effectively than anger.

2. Stay On Your Side of the Net

When communicating, especially giving feedback, stick to your own reality (your intent and behavior) and the impact on you, avoiding assumptions about the other person’s reality to prevent defensiveness.

3. Use “When You Do X, I Feel Y”

Structure constructive feedback by stating “When you do [specific behavior], I feel [specific emotion],” explaining the impact, to keep communication focused on observable actions and personal feelings, rather than accusations.

4. Practice 15% Vulnerability

Incrementally step 15% outside your comfort zone when disclosing personal feelings or information to deepen relationships and foster trust without overwhelming yourself or others.

5. Master Artful Inquiry

When seeking to understand others, ask open-ended questions starting with “what,” “when,” “where,” or “how,” and avoid “why” questions, which tend to make people defensive.

6. Address “Pinches” Promptly

Speak up about small irritations or “pinches” in a relationship before they escalate into larger “crunches,” as ignoring them will likely lead to increased irritation and damage the relationship.

7. Practice Appropriate Vulnerability

Leaders should be appropriately vulnerable by sharing genuine feelings or admitting mistakes to build credibility and inspire followership, but avoid disclosures that undermine confidence or are unprofessional.

8. Update Limiting Mental Models

Identify and challenge early-formed mental models (beliefs and assumptions) that may now limit your potential, seeking new experiences to test and update them for personal and professional growth.

9. Reframe Feedback as Data

View all feedback as data, categorizing it as either constructive (for problem-solving) or complimentary (for appreciation and reinforcement), rather than “negative,” to foster a more positive and growth-oriented communication environment.

10. Admit Your Mistakes

When you make a mistake, especially one that is widely known, admit it directly; ignoring it will cause you to lose more credibility than acknowledging it.

11. Prioritize Inquiry Over Advice

Resist the urge to immediately offer advice, especially as a leader, and instead prioritize inquiry to understand the situation fully, empower others to find their own solutions, and foster thought partnership.

12. Master Relationship Repair

When interactions go awry, learn to repair by asking “What did you hear me say?” to clarify misunderstandings, acknowledge the other person’s perception, and re-explain your intent, preventing escalation and rebuilding trust.

13. Embrace AFOGs

When experiencing failure or something goes wrong, reframe it as an “Another F***ing Opportunity for Growth” (AFOG) and focus on what you can learn from the experience to gain perspective and aid recovery.

14. Focus on Behavior Change

Recognize that while personality is inherent, behaviors are choices and can be changed through discipline and effort; accept “I don’t want to” as a choice, but challenge “I can’t” when it comes to behavior.

15. Cultivate Dual Awareness

Develop two “antennae”: one to track your own internal state (feelings, thoughts) and another to pick up signals about what might be going on for others, to enhance interpersonal competence and connection.

16. Disclose to Define Yourself

Disclose more about yourself to prevent others from making assumptions or “making shit up” about you, thereby gaining more control over your own self-definition and narrative.

17. View Relationships as Works-in-Progress

Recognize that both individuals and their relationships are continuously evolving, so what worked in the past may need to be re-evaluated and adapted as people change over time.

18. Develop a Feelings Vocabulary

Cultivate a rich vocabulary of feelings to better access and articulate your emotions, which is essential for appropriate disclosure and connecting with others.

19. Leaders Find Best Answers

A leader’s primary role is to ensure the best answer is found within the organization, not necessarily to provide all the answers themselves, fostering collective problem-solving and empowering the team.

20. Read “Connect” Actively with a Partner

To maximize learning from the book “Connect,” read it with someone you want to build a stronger relationship with, and actively engage in the activities provided at the end of each chapter.

I'm pretty sure your class just saved my marriage.

Carole Robin (quoting a former student)

People do business with people, not ideas, not products, not machines, not tactics, strategies, not even money. They do business with people. So you better get the people part right if you really want to succeed.

Carole Robin

Anger is a distancing emotion and there are other emotions that are connecting.

Carole Robin

In the absence of data, people make shit up.

Carole Robin

All feedback is data. So all feedback is positive. Data, more data is always better than less data.

Carole Robin

We are all works in progress, which means every relationship in your life is a work in progress.

Carole Robin

Giving Constructive Interpersonal Feedback

Carole Robin
  1. Start with 'When you do [insert specific, observable behavior]'.
  2. State 'I feel [pull out a feeling from the vocabulary of feelings]'.
  3. Explain 'And I'm telling you this because...' or 'I'm hoping the outcome of you knowing this is...'.
  4. Move into a problem-solving conversation to find behaviors that will work better for both of you.

Repairing a Relationship After a Misunderstanding

Carole Robin
  1. When someone responds unexpectedly to your communication, ask 'What did you hear me say?'.
  2. Acknowledge their perception: 'Wow, really glad I asked. Because now that I understand that's what you heard, I understand why you reacted the way you did.'
  3. Reframe your original intent or message: 'Let me try it again. [Explain your true intent/feeling].'
  4. Collaborate on a solution for future interactions: 'What would you like me to do if, in a situation like this?'
1975
Carole Robin's first job year As the first woman in a non-clerical sales engineer role at a large industrial automation company.
10 years
Years until Carole Robin's 'human after all' moment After starting her first job, while running a $50 million region.
12 participants and 2 facilitators
Size of T-group (training group) in Stanford's 'Touchy Feely' course Small groups where most experiential learning happens.
10 months
Duration of Leaders in Tech Fellows Program Starts with a four-day retreat and continues monthly.
4 days
Duration of Leaders in Tech retreats A version of the 'Touchy Feely' experience, open to managers in tech.
April 30th or May 1st
Application deadline for Leaders in Tech Fellows Program Around the time this episode was released.
4 years
Time taken to write the book 'Connect' Due to including actionable activities at the end of every chapter.
15 years
Years a former student waited to return to Leaders in Tech After taking the 'Touchy Feely' course at Stanford.
37 years (or 39 years)
Carole Robin's marriage duration Example of applying interpersonal skills in personal life.
20 months
Duration Carole Robin has been dealing with Long COVID As of the time of the podcast recording.