How to own your career growth and become a powerful product leader | Deb Liu, Ancestry (ex-Facebook, PayPal)

Aug 4, 2022 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Deb Liu, CEO of Ancestry and former Facebook Marketplace leader, shares insights from her career at PayPal and Facebook. She discusses overcoming introversion in leadership, critical PM skills, building successful products like Marketplace, and advice from her book, "Take Back Your Power."

At a Glance
13 Insights
1h 11m Duration
14 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

PayPal's Acquisition by eBay: Culture Clash and Integration

The Impact of Incentives and Systems on Team Dynamics

Deb Liu's Early Career and Rapid Growth at PayPal

Succeeding as an Introverted Leader: A Learnable Skill

Key Traits of Highly Successful Product Managers

Tactical Advice for Product Management Career Growth

The Power and Creation of Mentorship Circles

The Most Important Skill for Product Managers: Communication

Overcoming Communication Challenges and Building Confidence

Deb Liu's Book: 'Take Back Your Power'

The Origins and Mission of Women In Product

Strategies for Companies to Recruit Diverse Product Managers

Incubating and Scaling Facebook Marketplace

The Blessing and Curse of Rapid User Growth

Growth Mindset

This refers to an individual's willingness to constantly grow, listen to feedback, and actively seek out information and improvement in areas where they are not strong. It's about being hungry to learn and adapt rather than being fixed in one's abilities or knowledge.

Unintentional, Ridiculous Strategies

This concept describes the unconscious ways people give themselves a 'free pass' or limit their potential, such as thinking 'I'm an introvert, so I can't speak up.' It encourages intentional action and treating challenges as learnable skills rather than inherent limitations.

Mentorship/Coaching Circles

These are groups of peers who meet to help each other think through professional problems and identify blind spots. They provide diverse perspectives and ask hard questions that individuals might not consider on their own, fostering mutual support and growth.

Bias Towards On-the-Spot Communication

This describes the systemic tendency in many industries, especially tech, to favor individuals who can speak intelligently and riff on almost any topic without preparation. This bias can disadvantage introverts, non-native English speakers, or those who need time to process information.

Product Market Fit in Community

Before Facebook Marketplace officially launched, it was observed that communities (like local mom groups) were already organically buying and selling items on Facebook. This pre-existing behavior demonstrated a strong 'product market fit' within the community, which the Marketplace then sought to formalize and scale.

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What was the experience like for PayPal employees after being acquired by eBay?

It was a significant culture clash between PayPal's scrappy startup environment and eBay's corporate structure, leading to bewilderment and challenges in navigating different processes and incentive systems, despite the two products belonging together.

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How can introverts succeed in leadership roles, especially in communication-heavy positions?

Introverts can succeed by treating communication and leadership as learnable skills, not fixed traits. It requires exercising these 'muscles' broadly, rising to occasions when necessary, and understanding that consistent practice and intentional strategies can build confidence and effectiveness.

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What differentiates highly successful Product Managers from those who plateau?

Highly successful PMs possess a strong growth mindset, constantly seeking feedback and actively working on their weaknesses. They are hungry, passionate, and willing to push themselves to learn and grow, especially during opportune seasons of their careers.

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How can Product Managers intentionally drive their career growth?

PMs should 'PM their career' by seeking feedback (e.g., through coaching circles), setting annual improvement goals, creating a personal two-to-five-year career roadmap, and using these goals as criteria to evaluate new opportunities.

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What is the most crucial skill for Product Managers to develop?

Communication skills are paramount for PMs, encompassing clear written communication, broad persuasive communication (e.g., convincing groups of strategy), and the courage to speak up. A PM's job is largely communication, as they don't code, design, or analyze data themselves.

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How can individuals improve their communication skills and confidence?

Strategies include joining public speaking groups like Toastmasters, participating in safe mentorship circles to practice, intentionally planning communication goals for each meeting, and seeking feedback. It's important to view communication as a learnable skill and not overthink individual mistakes.

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What is Women In Product, and how can people get involved?

Women In Product is an organization co-founded by Deb Liu to connect, build community, and increase the number of women in product management. It started with dinners and now hosts conferences and has chapters in dozens of cities, encouraging women to volunteer and build local communities.

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What can companies do to recruit more diverse Product Managers?

Companies should drop computer science or technical degree requirements, avoid technical interviews, and critically examine their interview processes for biases (e.g., against 'futurist' candidates). Additionally, having diverse interviewers on panels can significantly increase offer acceptance rates from diverse candidates.

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How did Facebook Marketplace overcome initial skepticism and become so successful?

Marketplace started with small, focused teams to avoid becoming a large target, leveraging existing organic buying/selling behavior in Facebook groups (product-market fit). Its success was driven by user research, solving demand liquidity, building trust through real identity and connections, and amplifying stories of users building businesses.

1. Master Communication Skills

Prioritize developing strong communication skills, both written and verbal, as it is the core job of a PM and a powerful advantage for career advancement. Being able to speak intelligently on the spot, even without preparation, is a ‘rocket fuel’ skill for senior executives.

2. PM Your Own Career

Apply product management principles to your career by setting clear goals, creating a roadmap (e.g., two-year, five-year vision), and defining metrics for success. This intentional approach helps evaluate opportunities and ensures you’re making progress towards your desired career path, rather than drifting.

3. Cultivate a Growth Mindset

Continuously seek to grow, listen to feedback, and actively work on shoring up weaknesses, not just leveraging strengths. The most successful professionals are hungry, ambitious, and willing to do what it takes to learn and develop new skills.

4. Join a Mentoring Circle

Form or join a coaching or mentoring circle with peers to gain diverse perspectives, brainstorm challenges, and identify blind spots in your career or work. These groups provide a safe space for feedback and support, asking hard questions you might overlook yourself.

5. Address Systemic Process Issues

When teams struggle to collaborate, look beyond individual personalities and examine underlying systemic process or cultural problems. Often, people are pitted against each other by flawed systems, and fixing these structures is more effective than blaming individuals.

6. Practice Speaking Up

If you’re introverted or uncomfortable speaking in groups, treat it as a learnable skill by actively practicing (e.g., joining Toastmasters, using tally marks in meetings). The more you participate, the less pressure each individual comment carries, making it less fraught.

7. Don’t Devalue Your Ideas

Avoid using self-deprecating phrases like ‘I don’t want to bother you’ or ‘I’m sorry to waste your time’ when communicating your ideas. Present your thoughts with confidence and conviction, recognizing the value you bring to the conversation.

8. Be Intentional in Meetings

Before entering any meeting, take a few seconds to decide what you want to achieve and how you will contribute. Show up fully present and engaged, or consider not attending if you cannot be 110% there, to avoid being a ‘free rider.’

9. Incubate Products Small

When incubating a new product or initiative, start with a small, scrappy team rather than immediately allocating vast resources. This approach helps avoid creating a large target, allows for seeking product-market fit, and makes failure less painful if it doesn’t pan out.

10. Amplify User Success Stories

Internally share compelling stories of how your product changes users’ lives or helps them build businesses. These anecdotes are powerful for gaining internal buy-in and shifting perspectives, even when data might not yet fully support a project.

11. Fund Critical Projects Fully

For large, integrated projects, ensure they are fully funded and resourced to be completed quickly. Elongating such projects due to insufficient support can create hostility and misunderstandings between teams, leading to prolonged development times.

12. Prioritize Instincts in Hiring

When hiring, value a candidate’s instincts, passion, and learning mindset over strict adherence to experience or credentials. Some of the most successful PMs had little prior experience but possessed a strong product orientation and eagerness to learn.

13. Diversify Hiring Practices

To build a more diverse product team, remove unnecessary requirements like a computer science degree or technical interviews, and actively seek candidates from broad backgrounds. Ensure diverse representation on interview panels to increase the likelihood of diverse candidates accepting offers.

Anyone who can go into a room and speak about almost anything intelligently without any preparation has a huge advantage in our industry.

Deb Liu

Sometimes we often blame individuals for things that are actually systemic process problems.

Deb Liu

PM your career like you PM your product.

Deb Liu

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Deb Liu

If a feature ships, but no one knows about it, did it really ship?

Lenny Rachitsky

The less you speak, the more people, when you do speak, put so much weight in what you're saying.

Deb Liu

I think we're in our heads so much more than other people are in our heads.

Deb Liu

If a woman is on the interview panel, the candidate, the woman candidate is much more likely to accept the offer if they got one.

Deb Liu

PM Your Career Growth

Deb Liu
  1. Join a coaching or mentoring circle to receive feedback and identify blind spots from peers.
  2. Based on feedback, identify 2-3 specific areas for personal improvement each year, similar to New Year's resolutions.
  3. Create a personal career roadmap, outlining what you want to achieve in 2 and 5 years (a 'pre-mortem' for your career).
  4. Use your career roadmap and goals as evaluation criteria for new opportunities, ensuring they move you closer to your desired path.

Improving Communication Skills and Confidence

Deb Liu
  1. Join an organization like Toastmasters to practice public speaking in a structured and supportive environment.
  2. Participate in a safe mentorship or coaching circle to try out different communication approaches and receive constructive feedback.
  3. Before each meeting, intentionally decide on a specific communication strategy or goal (e.g., 'I will speak up at least once,' or 'I will ask a clarifying question').
  4. Actively seek feedback on your communication efforts to understand areas for improvement and track progress.
over 1 billion
Facebook Marketplace monthly active users Last publicly known number, as of the episode recording.
2 years
Time taken for NextGen Checkout project at eBay/PayPal Illustrates the challenges and elongation of projects due to systemic issues.
15 days
Engineering time represented by one 'train seat' at eBay Part of eBay's internal 'Tracker' system, contrasting with PayPal's faster estimates.
20%
Percentage of computer science degrees earned by women in America A factor contributing to the historical lack of diversity in product management roles when CS degrees were required.
almost 4,000 people
Applicants for the first Women in Product conference For 300 available slots, demonstrating significant demand and product-market fit.
two dozen
Number of cities with Women in Product chapters Illustrates the organization's global reach and community building.
over 100
Number of countries where Facebook Marketplace is available Indicates the global scale and impact of the product.