Inside Etsy’s product, growth, and marketplace evolution | Tim Holley (VP of Product)

Sep 3, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Tim Hawley, VP of Product at Etsy, discusses Etsy's growth from $500M to $13B GMV, focusing on cultural transitions, marketplace dynamics, product changes for conversion/retention, team organization, and frameworks for growth.

At a Glance
21 Insights
1h 11m Duration
18 Topics
10 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Etsy's Response to the COVID-19 Mask Mandate Surge

Tim Holley's Return to Etsy and Personal Motivation

Navigating Etsy's 2017 Culture Shift and Business Focus

Etsy's Guiding Principles for Product Development

Leading Teams and Driving Retention During Pandemic Growth

Key Learnings for Building a Thriving Marketplace

Balancing Supply and Demand in a Marketplace

Successful Buyer Conversion Strategies at Etsy

Etsy's Philosophy and Practices in Experimentation

Acquisition and Top-of-Funnel Tactics for Etsy

Etsy's Seller Referral Program and Listing Credits

Leveraging the Habit Loop Framework for Buyer Retention

How Etsy Differentiates Itself from Larger Marketplaces

Addressing the 'Graduation Problem' for Successful Sellers

Lessons from the Defunct Etsy Studio Project

Structuring and Leading a Productive Product Team

Key Qualities Tim Holley Looks for When Hiring Product Managers

A Simple Weekly Reflection Exercise for Teams

GMS (Gross Merchandise Sales)

GMS is Etsy's Northstar KPI, representing the total value of sales made through the platform. It serves as the primary metric for rallying teams, prioritizing work, and measuring the success of launches, ensuring all efforts ultimately contribute to facilitating buyer-seller transactions.

Guiding Principles

These are Etsy's core values, such as 'digging deeper' (understanding the 'why' behind changes) and 'minimizing waste' (ensuring work adds value and pivoting when it doesn't). They inform product development, decision-making, and resource allocation within the company.

Supply Constraint vs. Demand Constraint

This refers to the challenge of balancing the availability of products (supply) with the number of buyers (demand) in a marketplace. While Etsy generally has abundant supply (over 100 million items), specific subcategories may experience supply constraints, requiring targeted efforts to increase inventory.

Behavioral Economic Tactics

These are strategies used to subtly influence buyer decision-making, often referred to as 'signals and nudges.' Examples include highlighting limited stock ('only one of these') or quick summaries of information to build buyer confidence and encourage purchases.

Habit Loop Framework

This framework involves understanding a user's actions (e.g., 'favoriting' an item) as a trigger, and then providing a timely reward (e.g., a notification that the item is on sale). Etsy uses this to close loops and drive buyer retention by making interactions valuable and encouraging return visits.

Keep Commerce Human

This is Etsy's brand statement, reflecting its core identity of valuing unique, handmade items and the independent sellers behind them. It guides decision-making, feature prioritization, and differentiates Etsy from mass-market retailers by emphasizing personal connection and craftsmanship.

Production Assistance

An evolution in Etsy's policy to help sellers scale their businesses. It allows sellers to work with manufacturers, provided they maintain an understanding of the item's provenance, the production process, and a relationship with the person helping them, rather than simply outsourcing without oversight.

Graduation Problem

This describes the challenge marketplaces face when successful sellers, after growing their business on the platform, consider leaving to build their own websites to avoid fees. Etsy addresses this by offering competitive fees, valuable tools, and a supportive community to retain sellers.

Five Legs of the Stool

Etsy's collaborative model for product teams, expanding beyond the traditional three (product, engineering, design) to include insights (research and analytics) and marketing partners. This approach aims to incorporate diverse viewpoints and constraints for building the best possible products.

Product Stack

Etsy's organizational structure for product teams, which includes core customer teams (buyers/sellers), partner teams (e.g., payments), enablement teams (e.g., recommender systems, design system), and infrastructure teams. This structure is designed to align with evolving business strategy.

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How did Etsy manage the sudden surge in demand during the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic?

Etsy experienced a 'Black Friday overnight' surge in demand for face masks after the CDC mandate. They put out a call to sellers to produce masks, proactively contacted sellers to offer support, and then worked to broaden the perception of Etsy beyond just masks to retain new buyers.

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What was the impact of Etsy's 2017 culture shift, and what made it successful?

The 2017 shift moved Etsy from a consensus-based culture to one focused on business sustainability and speed. Success factors included rallying everyone around GMS as the Northstar KPI, bringing an 'outside-in' competitive perspective, and consistent, clear communication of the new narrative by leadership.

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What are Etsy's guiding principles for product development?

Etsy's guiding principles include 'digging deeper' to understand the 'why' behind changes and 'minimizing waste' by ensuring work adds value and being willing to pivot away from initiatives that aren't working.

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How does Etsy approach the balance between supply and demand in its marketplace?

While Etsy has over 100 million items, suggesting no overall supply constraint, they analyze at a subcategory level to identify and address specific pockets of supply needs. The focus is on helping buyers choose from the vast inventory and guiding sellers to offer what's in demand.

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What are some of Etsy's most successful conversion tactics for buyers?

Key conversion wins include leveraging buyer review photos and videos to help purchasers visualize items, and using behavioral economic tactics like highlighting limited stock ('only one of these') or adding text in the cart about Etsy offsetting carbon emissions from deliveries.

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What is Etsy's philosophy on experimentation?

The vast majority of changes at Etsy are run as A/B tests, which are seen as the highest bar for proving causal relationships. However, they are expanding to other validation methods like cohort analysis for retention and pre/post analyses for policy-driven changes, always aiming to understand if a change adds value.

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How does Etsy acquire new buyers and sellers?

For sellers, early acquisition involved attending craft fairs and leveraging word-of-mouth. For buyers, Etsy uses SEO and Google Shopping to capture long-tail, niche searches, and benefits from sellers promoting their own listings and the natural dynamic of sellers also being buyers.

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How does Etsy drive buyer retention?

Etsy leverages a habit loop framework, using buyer actions like 'favoriting' an item as a trigger. They then provide rewards such as notifications when favored items go on sale or are selling out, and use an 'updates feed' to highlight changes and new activity relevant to the buyer.

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How does Etsy differentiate itself from larger marketplaces like Amazon and eBay?

Etsy differentiates through its strong brand, which conjures a specific image of unique, handmade items. This is reinforced by strict policies on what can be sold and the brand statement 'keep commerce human,' which emphasizes valuing the unique and handmade over mass production or impersonal transactions.

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How does Etsy address the 'graduation problem' where successful sellers might leave to build their own websites?

Etsy believes its fees are competitive and aims to be a place sellers love to sell, offering tools and a community that provides stickiness. While some sellers may build their own sites, Etsy often continues to play a role in their distribution strategy due to the difficulty and cost of driving traffic independently.

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What was the Etsy Studio project and why was it discontinued?

Etsy Studio was an initiative to connect inspiring craft ideas (like Pinterest) with the necessary supplies and tutorials, aiming to bridge the gap between inspiration and creation. It was ultimately discontinued because it didn't align with the company's renewed focus on driving short-term sales and ROI for the core marketplace during the 2017 pivot.

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What qualities does Tim Holley look for when hiring Product Managers at Etsy?

Tim looks for a strong willingness and excitement for collaboration, decisiveness (especially when data isn't perfectly clear), and a deep sense of curiosity or a growth mindset, as PMs at Etsy may be asked to work on diverse and evolving priorities.

1. Rally Around a Northstar KPI

Establish a single, clear Northstar KPI (like Gross Merchandise Sales for Etsy) and make it the consistent drumbeat in every meeting and the measuring stick for all launches. This provides clarity, aligns teams, and helps prioritize efforts by articulating how work contributes to the main goal.

2. Cultivate a Clear Narrative

As a leader, consistently articulate a clear narrative about the company’s direction and goals. Repeat it often (more than three times) so people internalize it, marrying clarity on goals with clarity on why, which is an incredibly powerful combination for driving change.

3. Bring an Outside-In Perspective

Benchmark your business against competitors and the broader competitive set, even if you’re a unique marketplace. This helps ground discussions in the overall dynamics of what customers are doing and where they’re spending their money, leading to better decisions over time.

4. Prioritize Minimizing Waste

Adopt a product development principle of minimizing waste by asking if the work is adding value to the customer and business. Be willing to stop projects that aren’t working out, as being diligent about resource investment is crucial for small teams to be successful.

5. Deeply Understand Your Customers

Immerse yourself in understanding your customers (e.g., sellers) by doing studio visits, going to their workshops, and involving them in product development. This deep understanding helps identify their unique needs and how to best support them, especially during times of rapid change.

6. Evolve Team Communication

Continuously adapt team communication methods based on their needs and context, especially during stressful times. For instance, if daily coffee chats become repetitive and add to video call fatigue, evolve to different formats or frequencies to keep a pulse on what the team truly needs.

7. Expand Experimentation Horizons

While A/B testing is valuable for immediate impacts, expand your approach to include different validation methods for metrics like retention or SEO, which necessitate longer time horizons. This forces teams out of their comfort zone to understand and measure change over longer periods.

8. Leverage Buyer Review Photos/Videos

Encourage buyers to submit photos and videos with their reviews, especially for unique items. This helps future purchasers gain confidence by seeing what the item looks like in a real-world context (e.g., in a buyer’s hand or home), addressing concerns about size, color, and fit.

9. Employ Behavioral Economic Nudges

Use signals and nudges (behavioral economic tactics) to help buyers make decisions by elevating small, glanceable snippets of information. Highlighting details like ‘only one of these’ can fit into a buyer’s decision-making process and drive conversion.

10. Test Small Copy Changes

Don’t underestimate the impact of small, one-line text changes in key areas like the cart experience. Unexpectedly, these can resonate deeply with buyers and lead to significant conversion uplift, sometimes by communicating core business values.

11. Don’t A/B Test All Changes

Recognize that not all changes are suitable for A/B testing, especially when honoring direct inputs from users (e.g., a seller offering an item on sale). In such cases, use pre/post analyses or other data interpretation methods to understand impact, even if confidence in causality is slightly different.

12. Acquire Sellers Through Community

Acquire initial supply by engaging directly with sellers at relevant events (e.g., craft fairs) and leveraging word-of-mouth through seller communities. Sellers often know others with similar inclinations, creating a natural growth loop.

13. Drive Buyer Acquisition via Long-Tail SEO

Leverage a vast, unique inventory to drive buyer acquisition through SEO and Google Shopping. This strategy effectively meets niche and specific needs, showing not just single items but also related options, attracting buyers looking for something very particular.

14. Implement Seller Referral Programs

Consider seller referral programs using a low-barrier currency, such as listing credits instead of cash. This encourages existing sellers to bring in new ones by making it easier for them to start or list more items, while also mitigating fraud risks often associated with monetary incentives.

15. Close the Habit Loop for Retention

Design features that close the habit loop for retention, using user actions (like ‘favoriting’ an item) as triggers for notifications. Inform users when a favorited item goes on sale or is low in stock, making the interaction valuable and encouraging return visits.

16. Maintain Marketplace Integrity with Clear Policies

Invest continuously in enforcing clear policies about what is allowed on the platform to maintain brand integrity and differentiate from competitors. This ensures only relevant and high-quality items are available, which is crucial at scale and for unique marketplaces.

17. Support Seller Scaling with Production Assistance

Evolve policies to support sellers in scaling their production (e.g., through ‘production assistance’) while maintaining item provenance. This allows designers to bring ideas to life or existing sellers to meet higher demand, provided they understand and have a relationship with their production partners.

18. Structure Teams with Five-Legged Stool

Consider a ‘five-legged stool’ approach for product team collaboration, including Product, Engineering, Design, Insights (Research & Analytics), and Marketing. While challenging, this incorporates diverse viewpoints and constraints, leading to better product decisions and features.

19. Empower PMs for Decisive Accountability

Clarify that the Product Manager is ultimately accountable for making decisions and owning the consequences, especially when data isn’t perfectly clear. This empowers PMs to choose the best ideas and learn from outcomes, rather than getting stuck in consensus-driven debates.

20. Hire for Collaboration, Decisiveness, Curiosity

When hiring Product Managers, prioritize candidates who demonstrate a real excitement for collaboration, decisiveness in ambiguous situations, and a strong sense of curiosity or a growth mindset. These traits are crucial for navigating change and learning in dynamic, relatively small organizations.

21. Implement Weekly Focus Exercise

Encourage a simple ‘weekly focus’ exercise where team members articulate their priorities for the week and reflect on last week’s progress. This low-fi practice fosters accountability, helps identify patterns in time management, and keeps focus on priorities rather than just tasks.

When the CDC mandated face masks in early April 2020, that's when essentially we went to sleep one day with our typical April traffic, typical April sales, and then it was Black Friday overnight.

Tim Holley

You need to say something three times before people understand it. I would wager, you need to say it another three times before they internalize it.

Tim Holley

The job of a marketplace, even, you know, pre, pre, the technology definition of a marketplace is a seller will go there to make sales. And if they're not making sales, they probably won't go to that marketplace.

Tim Holley

Etsy offsets carbon emissions from every delivery.

Tim Holley

You don't have to have the best ideas, but you have to choose the best ideas.

Nick (Etsy's CPO, quoted by Tim Holley)

All or nothing, like go all in, go, go do the thing. And in German, ganz oder gar nicht.

Tim Holley

Weekly Focus Reflection Exercise

Tim Holley
  1. On Mondays, each team member articulates what they are focused on for the current week.
  2. Team members reflect on whether they completed their stated focuses from the previous week.
  3. Share these focuses and reflections with the team, often in a Slack channel, to create accountability and identify patterns.
from $500 million to over $13 billion
Etsy's GMV (Gross Merchandise Sales) growth during Tim Holley's tenure Over a decade, including a period of leaving and returning.
early April 2020
Date of CDC mask mandate that caused a surge in Etsy demand Led to an overnight 'Black Friday' level of traffic and sales.
just over 2000 people
Total number of people in Etsy's business Considered a relatively small team, necessitating diligence in resource investment.
over a hundred million
Number of unique items available on Etsy Presents a challenge in helping buyers choose and distinguishing items/sellers.
80%
Percentage of experiments that typically fail across companies A statistic attributed to Ronny Kohavi, which Etsy's experience generally aligns with.
20 cents
Cost to list an item on Etsy A small financial outlay that can still act as a barrier for new sellers.