Jackie Bavaro on getting better at product strategy, what exactly is strategy, PM pitfalls to avoid, advancing your career, getting into management, and much more
Jackie Bavaro, former Head of Product at Asana and author of "Cracking the PM Interview" and "Cracking the PM Career," shares deep insights on product strategy, career growth, and common PM mistakes. She discusses defining strategy, navigating management, and tactical advice for PMs at all stages.
Deep Dive Analysis
15 Topic Outline
Jackie Bavaro's Entry into Product Management
Motivation Behind Writing PM Interview Books
Journey from First PM to Head of Product at Asana
Learning from Early Career Mistakes at Asana
Impact and Value of Product Coaching
Reasons for Longevity at Asana and Decision to Leave
Downsides and Challenges of Product Management Leadership
Navigating Individual Contributor vs. Manager Career Paths
Defining Product Strategy: Three Core Components
Identifying Characteristics of a Good Product Strategy
Practical Ways to Improve Product Strategy Skills
When Early PMs Should Invest in Strategy Development
Essential Career Growth Advice for Product Managers
Common Mistakes Made by Early Career PMs
Future Plans and Lightning Round Insights
3 Key Concepts
Strategy Components
Strategy is comprised of three key parts: Vision (an inspiring picture of the future), a Strategic Framework (defining the market, success metrics, and big bets to win), and a Roadmap (working backward from the vision to check feasibility and organize efforts).
Consistency vs. Comprehensiveness
This is a strategic framing used to decide if a product should prioritize providing consistent results exclusively within its own ecosystem or offer comprehensive results, even if it means linking to external sources, to give users a complete view.
Eigenquestions
A framework for framing problems that helps teams make progress on difficult strategic questions by providing a new way of looking at the strategy, often by cross-applying insights from different product contexts.
11 Questions Answered
A product strategy consists of three parts: a vision (an inspiring future picture), a strategic framework (defining the market, success metrics, and big bets to win), and a roadmap (working backward from the vision to check feasibility and organize efforts).
A good strategy connects high-level business goals (like increasing revenue) to specific product features, explaining the 'why' at each step. It clarifies missing assumptions and resolves thorny disagreements by addressing them at a strategic level rather than fighting over individual features.
PMs can improve by collaborating with stakeholders, listening to their feedback, sticking with teams long enough to see results and iterate, and cross-applying strategic framings from other products or industries to their own problems.
For the first six months, early PMs should focus on learning the existing strategy and doing customer research. After about six months, they can block out half a day to draft a strategy for their team, starting with whichever of the three pillars draws them the most.
Have a conversation with your manager, stating your future growth goal (e.g., 'I would really love to become a people manager someday') and asking what you should work on now to be ready when the opportunity comes up. This brings your manager onto your side and focuses their feedback.
Early PMs often misunderstand their role's expectations, trying to overdo projects that require simple execution or under-contributing by letting others lead too much. They might also optimize for the wrong things, like immediate management roles instead of mastering their current PM craft.
Being a manager can be a lonely and less fun job than being an individual contributor, often requiring you to keep secrets or navigate situations where your goals aren't perfectly aligned with your direct reports' desires, which can be heavy and lead to burnout.
While high-level IC roles (Principal, Partner PM) are rare due to limited business needs for such impact without managing a large team, PMs can still grow their impact and earnings significantly on an IC path by switching companies, working on cutting-edge products, or focusing on social impact, without needing constant promotions.
Large or medium-sized companies offer opportunities to learn best practices, grow your professional network, and often provide higher starting salaries, building a strong financial and experiential foundation for future career moves.
After being rejected by Google despite her confidence, Jackie realized that even good PMs struggle with interview questions. This personal experience, combined with seeing inconsistent interview performance, motivated her to write books to level the playing field and share insights.
A coach helped Jackie rethink her defensive mindset of always saying 'no' to ideas, challenging her to say 'yes' for two weeks. This experience taught her to foster collaboration and explore problems rather than immediately shutting down solutions, leading to better team dynamics.
29 Actionable Insights
1. Initiate Career Growth Conversations
Start career growth discussions with your manager using the template: “I’d like to grow into [goal] someday. What should I work on now to be ready when the opportunity arises?” This non-threatening approach brings your manager to your side and focuses their feedback on what truly matters for your advancement.
2. Understand Strategy’s Three Pillars
A complete strategy consists of three key components: an inspiring vision (what the future looks like), a strategic framework (market, success metrics, and big bets to win), and a roadmap (a reverse-engineered plan to check feasibility and identify major initiatives).
3. Connect Dots in Strategy
A good strategy clearly links high-level business goals (e.g., revenue targets) to specific product features and initiatives. As a PM, when given a numerical target, it’s your job to connect your product work and customer insights to that target, explaining the ‘why’ and intermediate steps.
4. Listen for Strategic Confusion
To identify missing assumptions or connections in your strategy, continuously communicate it to stakeholders and actively listen for their confusion. This feedback reveals gaps that need further explanation or refinement in your strategic narrative.
5. Practice Saying ‘Yes’
To foster collaboration and openness, challenge yourself to say ‘yes’ to ideas for a set period (e.g., two weeks). This doesn’t mean agreeing to every solution, but rather acknowledging the problem or agreeing to test an idea, shifting from a defensive ’no’ mindset.
6. Avoid Defensive ‘No’ Mindset
As a Product Manager, resist the urge to view your role primarily as saying ’no’ to ideas. A defensive mindset can hinder collaboration and make you seem unapproachable, rather than a partner in problem-solving.
7. Early PM: Learn Before Strategizing
For the first six months in a new PM role, prioritize learning the existing strategy, conducting customer research, and executing on current plans. Avoid immediately trying to redefine the strategy, as this builds trust and understanding of the product and team.
8. Address Disagreements with Strategy
When persistent disagreements arise over features or decisions, it often indicates an underlying strategic misalignment. Resolve these by explicitly defining your strategic framework or principles to address the problem at a higher level, rather than fighting over individual choices.
9. Learn Strategy Through Iteration
To truly improve your strategic capabilities, commit to a team or product long enough to implement your plans, measure the results, and iterate. This allows you to observe patterns, test different approaches, and form robust conclusions about what works.
10. Cross-Apply Strategic Frameworks
Enhance your strategic thinking by observing how other products and companies frame their decisions and then applying those frameworks or questions to your own challenges. This broadens your perspective and offers new ways to analyze problems.
11. Early PM: Execute Simply, Earn Trust
As an early-career PM assigned narrowly scoped projects, focus on executing the simple solution exceptionally well rather than over-innovating. This approach builds trust and earns you the opportunity to take on larger, more complex initiatives in the future.
12. Balance Leadership and Collaboration
As a PM, actively contribute and serve as a multiplier for your team’s work, avoiding both under-leading (being a passive note-taker) and over-leading (crowding out others and potentially burning bridges). Strive for a collaborative approach that empowers everyone.
13. Show Enthusiasm for Current Role
Demonstrate genuine enthusiasm for your current day-to-day responsibilities, even if you have aspirations for future roles. This signals maturity and a strong work ethic to your manager, fostering a positive working relationship and making you easier to manage.
14. Understand Role Expectations
Avoid common early-career mistakes by clearly understanding the specific expectations and success metrics for your current PM role and stage. Don’t prematurely optimize for future roles, as this can be perceived as immaturity or a lack of understanding of your current responsibilities.
15. Management is a Two-Way Door
Consider a move into management as a reversible decision. Many professionals are now transitioning back to Individual Contributor (IC) roles if management doesn’t align with their preferences, so don’t feel it’s a permanent commitment.
16. Financial Growth Beyond Management
Recognize that significant financial compensation can be achieved as a Senior PM (IC path) at many companies, often comparable to other high-earning professions. You don’t necessarily need to pursue people management solely for financial gain.
17. IC Path: Grow Impact Beyond Promotions
If pursuing an Individual Contributor (IC) path, focus on growing your impact beyond official promotions. This can involve switching companies for better compensation, working on cutting-edge products, or contributing to socially impactful work, as high-level IC roles are rare.
18. Advocate for High-Level Meetings
To gain access to higher-level meetings, frame your presence as a way to save your boss time and energy. Offer to attend to directly get answers to critical questions, rather than having your boss relay information back and forth.
19. Leverage Manager’s Peers
If you have a new manager at a large company with a promotion committee, seek out your manager’s experienced peers who have successfully promoted others. Ask them for advice on what to work on to get promoted, leveraging their knowledge and support.
20. Share Knowledge Publicly
If you’re willing to share valuable insights or advice with a select few, consider sharing it publicly. This helps to level the playing field and ensures broader access to knowledge, contributing to the community.
21. Engage a Coach for Specifics
Engage a coach when you have a specific development area you want to work on, rather than for continuous, open-ended sessions. This targeted approach maximizes effectiveness and prevents making small issues seem larger than they are.
22. Understand Management Downsides
Be aware that management can be a lonely and less enjoyable role than an Individual Contributor (IC) position. Managers often need to keep confidential information and navigate complex conflicts of interest, which can be emotionally taxing.
23. Early Career: Choose Large Companies
Consider starting your career at a large or medium-sized company. These environments often provide opportunities to learn best practices, build a strong professional network, and establish a solid financial foundation with competitive salaries.
24. Prioritize Peer Relationships
Recognize that strong peer relationships are crucial for career success, as peer reviews significantly impact performance evaluations. Prioritize collaboration and positive interactions with your colleagues to ensure favorable feedback.
25. Prepare for ‘Proud Project’ Question
In interviews, be ready to discuss a recent project you are proud of. Focus on the problem, your epiphany or insight, the actions you took, the results achieved, and what you learned from the experience.
26. Use PEARL for Interview Answers
When answering interview questions about projects or experiences, structure your response using the PEARL framework: describe the Problem, your Epiphany/insight, the Actions you took, the Results achieved, and the Learning gained.
27. Read ‘Getting Things Done’
For transformative insights into personal and professional productivity and organization, read ‘Getting Things Done’ by David Allen.
28. Consider Microsoft for PM Roles
Microsoft is an underrated company to consider for PM career opportunities, offering valuable learning experiences and a strong foundation in strategy.
29. Utilize Paprika Recipe Manager
Use the Paprika recipe manager app to save recipes from any URL, plan meals, and create shopping lists, enhancing your cooking and food planning experience across devices.
5 Key Quotes
If I'm willing to tell it to a friend of a friend, I have to be willing to like put that out on the internet and share that with everyone because we really want to level the playing field and we don't want to make things more unfair.
Jackie Bavaro
As a manager, there are times when my goal is like backfill for someone I know is quitting in a few weeks, but I can't tell anyone about it.
Jackie Bavaro
I think that a good strategy is all about connecting the dots, connecting the dots from this high level business goal of like, we want to increase revenue by this much to like, this is the feature we're going to do.
Jackie Bavaro
Anytime you have these disagreements that feel really thorny, or they feel like a disagreement in values, that's a sign that really have a disagreement in strategy.
Jackie Bavaro
I think that working at a large company early in your career can be just really, really valuable.
Jackie Bavaro
2 Protocols
PEARL Framework for Interview Answers
Jackie Bavaro- **Problem**: Describe the problem you thought was worth solving, and its significance.
- **Epiphany**: Share the insight you had – what did you notice that others didn't, and how valuable was that?
- **Action**: Detail what you actually did to make this happen, including challenges and how you overcame them.
- **Result**: Explain the outcomes of your actions, ideally positive results or significant learnings.
- **Learning**: Discuss what you grew from this experience, especially if it was a failure, and how it informed future successes.
Career Growth Conversation Template with Manager
Jackie Bavaro- State your future growth goal (e.g., 'I would really love to become a people manager someday' or 'become a senior PM').
- Ask your manager: 'What do you suggest that I work on now so that I'll be ready when the opportunity comes up?'