Land your dream job in today’s market: negotiation tactics, job search councils, and more | Phyl Terry (Author, “Never Search Alone”)
Phil Terry, author of Never Search Alone, shares his methodology for reinventing the job search using a "product lens." He discusses the power of job search councils, developing candidate market fit, playing to win in interviews, and the transformative art of asking for help.
Deep Dive Analysis
15 Topic Outline
Introduction to Phyl Terry and Job Search Councils
The Power and Origin of Community in Job Searching
Scale, Structure, and Impact of Job Search Councils
Understanding Candidate-Market Fit in Job Search
The Mnookin Two-Pager and Listening Tour for Self-Assessment
Refining Candidate-Market Fit for a Focused Search
Navigating Job Market Realities and Career Transitions
Creating a Job Mission with OKRs for Interviewing
Negotiating Job Offers and Setting Up for Success
The Gratitude House Exercise and Managing Emotional Balance
The Counterintuitive Power of Asking for Help
Practical Tips for Effective Help-Seeking
Final Advice on Job Searching and Community
Phyl Terry's Other Initiatives and Projects
Lightning Round: Books, TV, and Life Motto
8 Key Concepts
Job Search Councils
These are support groups of six to eight job seekers, often product people, who commit to supporting each other through the job search process. They help members figure out their candidate-market fit and maintain emotional balance, turning anxiety into hope and confidence.
Candidate-Market Fit
This concept applies a product lens to job searching, recognizing that job seekers are 'the product' in a marketplace with supply and demand. It involves understanding what the market wants from your skills and experience, which may differ from what you want or what was available in past market conditions.
Mnookin Two-Pager
This is a radical first step in defining candidate-market fit, where job seekers privately list what they want and don't want in a job. Sharing this draft with a job search council helps refine it by incorporating insights from others, revealing overlooked preferences or dislikes.
Listening Tour
After drafting the Mnookin two-pager, job seekers conduct a listening tour by talking to former colleagues, network contacts, and recruiters. The goal is to gather market research and customer feedback on their perceived fit, validate their aspirations, and identify what the market truly seeks.
Job Mission with OKRs
During the interview process, job seekers create their own version of the job description, outlining a mission and Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) for the role. This document is initially private but later shared with the hiring manager to demonstrate initiative, accountability, and a deep understanding of the role's potential impact.
Playing to Win (Negotiation)
This approach to negotiation encourages job seekers to take charge by collaboratively discussing what they need to succeed in a role, beyond just salary. It involves identifying necessary resources, support, or budget (e.g., for tech debt or team training) that align with their proposed job mission and OKRs, which often leads to better overall offers.
Gratitude House Exercise
This exercise involves reflecting on all the people who have helped you in your life, from teachers to family. Its purpose is to build confidence and remind job seekers that they are not alone, metaphorically carrying a supportive 'village' with them into interviews and negotiations.
Asking for Help (Counterintuitive Rules)
Asking for help is presented as a sign of confidence, a giving activity (making others feel valued), a path to greater independence, and a reputation enhancer. It's crucial to do homework, be thoughtful about who to ask, and be open and vulnerable without expecting others to do the work for you.
9 Questions Answered
A job search council is a free support group of six to eight job seekers who commit to helping each other find jobs. It helps members navigate the emotional challenges of job searching, provides accountability, and offers a structured methodology for finding candidate-market fit.
Searching alone magnifies the inherent insecurity and anxiety of the job search. A council flips this fear into hope, motivation, accountability, and confidence by providing a community where people can be open, vulnerable, and ask for help.
Candidate-market fit is understanding what the job market demands from your skills and experience, similar to product-market fit. In a tough market, it's crucial because supply and demand dynamics can push down the level of roles you might be a fit for, making it essential to align your search with current market realities.
You start by creating a 'Mnookin two-pager,' a draft document outlining your likes and dislikes in a role. This is then refined by sharing it with your job search council, who can offer additional insights and help you clarify your preferences.
A listening tour involves talking to former colleagues, network contacts, and recruiters to gather market research and feedback on your candidate-market fit. It helps refine your understanding of market needs, builds relationships, and creates 'listening posts' of people invested in your success.
Job seekers should create a 'job mission with OKRs' (Objectives and Key Results) for the role they're interviewing for. Sharing this with the hiring manager demonstrates initiative, accountability, and a deep understanding of the role, often distinguishing them from other candidates.
Beyond salary, negotiate for resources or support needed to succeed in the role, such as budget for tech debt, team training, or additional hires, tying these requests back to your proposed job mission and OKRs. This demonstrates a commitment to success and often leads to a better overall package.
Asking for help is crucial because it's a sign of confidence, a giving activity, fosters independence, and improves reputation. To do it well, one must do their homework, be thoughtful about who to ask, be open and vulnerable, and never hide the true nature of the request.
The 'golden question' to ask during a listening tour is: 'If you were in my shoes, how would you approach this?' This open-ended question encourages thoughtful advice and insights from your network.
37 Actionable Insights
1. Join a Job Search Council
Join a support group of 6-8 job seekers (like those at phil.org) to support each other, figure out candidate market fit, and overcome the inherent insecurity and anxiety of job searching.
2. Create a Job Mission with OKRs
Privately draft your own job mission with Objectives and Key Results (OKRs) for the role you’re interviewing for, as this demonstrates initiative and helps you understand the role better than the typical vague job description.
3. Negotiate Success Resources First
Before discussing salary, talk to the hiring manager about the specific resources, support, or budget you’ll need to succeed in the role, tying it back to your agreed-upon OKRs, as companies appreciate this proactive approach to ensuring success.
4. Develop a Focused Candidate Market Fit
After your listening tour, create a simple, narrow candidate market fit statement (typically 3-4 attributes like stage, industry, role level, culture) to clearly communicate your target, acting as a ‘spear’ rather than a ’net’ to attract relevant opportunities.
5. Conduct a Job Search Listening Tour
After defining your preferences, conduct a ’listening tour’ by asking trusted friends, former colleagues (reverse exit interviews), and recruiters for feedback on your fit and current market conditions.
6. Ask for Help Confidently
Understand that asking for help is a sign of confidence, not weakness, and it strengthens your reputation and independence, especially when done thoughtfully and with preparation.
7. Manage Emotional Balance Sheet
Prioritize managing your emotional balance during a job search, as it is the most important factor to manage for sustained effort and overall well-being, more so than resumes or networking.
8. Define Your Job Preferences
Clearly articulate what you want and don’t want in a job by creating a ‘Mnookin two-pager,’ as most people skip this crucial first step, leading to unfocused efforts.
9. Interview to Win, Not Just Not Lose
Approach interviews and negotiations with a mindset of playing to win, taking charge and demonstrating your value rather than being passive or merely trying to avoid mistakes.
10. Embrace Vulnerability in Job Search
Be open and vulnerable with others in a support group, as this human psychology hack can transform anxiety and fear into hope, motivation, accountability, and confidence.
11. Consider a Two-Step Career Strategy
If your desired role isn’t a direct market fit, consider taking an intermediate role that builds necessary experience or gets you closer to the technology frontier, as a strategic stepping stone.
12. Stay Close to Technology Frontier
Continuously seek roles or activities that bring you closer to the technology frontier, as this is where new job creation and long-term career opportunities are most abundant.
13. Send Monthly Network Updates
Consistently send monthly update notes to your network, even if there’s no major news, to keep them informed and invested in your job search progress.
14. Be the ‘I’ in Village
Be independent, accountable, and responsible in your job search, leveraging community support to enhance your individual effort and maximize your chances.
15. Build Recruiter Relationships Proactively
Even when employed, answer calls from recruiters, help them, and network to build relationships that will be valuable when you eventually need to search for a job.
16. Share Refined Candidate Market Fit
After your council approves your candidate market fit statement, share it with your entire network (including LinkedIn) to turn them into active listening posts for relevant opportunities.
17. Ask the ‘Golden Question’
During your listening tour, ask contacts, ‘If you were in my shoes, how would you approach this?’ to open conversations and gain valuable, creative advice.
18. Ask for More Compensation
After discussing success resources, ask for more money if the offer doesn’t meet your expectations, as historically, most companies are open to negotiation, and it rarely hurts your chances.
19. Negotiate Live with Hiring Manager
Conduct salary and resource negotiations in person or over a live phone call with the hiring manager whenever possible, as this builds rapport and increases your chances of success compared to email.
20. Perform the Gratitude House Exercise
Before your listening tour, complete the ‘gratitude house exercise’ by listing everyone who has helped you get to where you are, which builds confidence and reminds you that you’re not alone.
21. Visualize Support Before Interviews
Before interviews, reflect on your ‘gratitude house’ and visualize all the people who support you, including your job search council, to boost confidence and feel less alone.
22. Debrief After Every Interview
Immediately debrief after interviews with someone (like your council) to gain an objective perspective on what happened and counteract self-critical biases or imposter syndrome.
23. Name Your Inner Critic
Engage in the ‘inner critic exercise’ by naming your inner critic to externalize and manage self-doubt and imposter syndrome, preventing it from eroding your confidence.
24. Ask for Help Thoughtfully
Avoid asking for help poorly (e.g., not doing homework, expecting others to do work for you); instead, be prepared, do your homework, and seek advice or perspective from those with expertise.
25. Frame Help Requests as Giving
When asking for help, frame your request as seeking perspective or advice from someone with expertise, making them feel valued and ‘given to,’ as everyone loves to give.
26. Be Direct in Your Ask
Always be honest and direct about what you’re asking for, avoiding manipulative or indirect approaches that can damage trust and relationships.
27. Use Emotional Intelligence When Asking for Help
Exercise emotional intelligence when asking for help, consulting your council to ensure you’re asking the right people in the right way to avoid negative outcomes.
28. Conduct a First 90 Days Coaching Call
Upon starting a new job, conduct a ‘first 90 days peer coaching call’ with others in similar roles to get advice on avoiding common mistakes and focusing on key priorities for success.
29. Hold a Career Evolution Call
To advance your career (e.g., from Director to VP), organize a ‘career evolution call’ with people currently in your target role to understand how to bridge the gap and prepare for promotion.
30. Share Phil.org with Job Seekers
Inform anyone you know who is job seeking about the free community and resources available at phil.org, as it offers smart tools and genuine support to transform their search.
31. Read More to Enhance Thinking
Read widely, especially good books (history, science, product-related), as ‘books are machines to think with’ and can significantly enhance your critical thinking as a product person.
32. Reread Important Books for Mentorship
Reread important books multiple times, treating the authors as ‘dead or distant mentors’ to deeply internalize their insights and inform your decisions and actions.
33. Visit Art Museums for Design Inspiration
Visit art museums and engage with art to develop visual literacy, empathy, and design thinking, which can inspire better product creation and broader perspective.
34. Utilize Free Slow Art Day Materials
Access free ‘Slow Art Day’ materials (teacher, leader, participant) from phil.org to organize a museum offsite for your product team, fostering visual literacy, empathy, and art appreciation to improve product design.
35. Ask About Past Senior Hire Failures
As a senior-level interviewee, ask the company about a time they hired a senior person who failed, what happened, and how to avoid that outcome, to gauge their self-awareness and set yourself up for success.
36. Use ‘Huge Mistake’ Reference Check
When checking references, state that you’re about to hire the candidate and ask the reference to call you back only if it would be a huge mistake not to hire them, to get honest and direct feedback.
37. Back-Channel Your Future Boss
Before accepting a job, use your network to back-channel your prospective boss, asking former colleagues if they would work with that person again to gain crucial insights.
6 Key Quotes
Everyone, no matter who they are, Lenny, feels insecure and anxious in the job search. And if you do it alone, it magnifies it.
Phyl Terry
While it's hard to figure out your candidate market fit, it's also a relief to know it's not about you.
Phyl Terry
When you're looking for a job, you need a spear and not a net. With a net, everything slips through.
Phyl Terry
If someone did this, it would blow my mind. I would hire them on the spot.
Phyl Terry
Asking for help is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of confidence. It both requires confidence and strengthens it.
Phyl Terry
Books are machines to think with.
Phyl Terry
4 Protocols
Job Search Strategy (from Mnookin Two-Pager to Candidate-Market Fit)
Phyl Terry- Create a 'Mnookin two-pager' by privately listing what you want and don't want in a job.
- Share your draft Mnookin two-pager with your job search council for feedback and refinement.
- Conduct a 'listening tour' by talking to former colleagues (reverse exit interviews), broader network (using the 'golden question'), and recruiters to gather market feedback.
- Based on listening tour insights, create a focused, narrow candidate-market fit statement (typically 3-4 attributes like stage, industry, role level, culture).
- Share your refined candidate-market fit statement with your listening tour contacts and post it on LinkedIn.
Job Offer Negotiation (Playing to Win)
Phyl Terry- Create a private 'job mission with OKRs' (Objectives and Key Results) for the role you are interviewing for.
- Use your job mission with OKRs to develop insightful interview questions.
- After a couple of interviews, share your draft job mission with OKRs with the hiring manager (preferably live, not via email) to clarify understanding and demonstrate initiative.
- Once an offer is received, discuss with the hiring manager (ideally, not just the recruiter) the resources, support, or budget needed to achieve the agreed-upon OKRs (e.g., tech debt, training, hires).
- After discussing success factors, ask for more money if the initial offer didn't meet your desired range, framing it as 'Are you open to X amount? That's what I was hoping for.'.
First 90 Days Peer Coaching Call
Phyl Terry- Identify people in a similar role (e.g., Director of Product, VP of Product) at other companies.
- Convene a peer coaching call with these individuals after starting a new job.
- Share your job mission with OKRs and your initial 30-60-90 day plan.
- Ask for advice: 'What would you do if you were in my shoes?', 'What mistakes have you seen others or yourself make that I need to avoid?', 'What should I focus on?'.
Career Evolution Peer Coaching Call
Phyl Terry- Identify people who hold the role you aspire to (e.g., VP of Product if you're a Director).
- Convene a peer coaching call with these individuals.
- Explain your current role and your aspiration (e.g., 'I'm a Director and I want to become a VP').
- Ask for guidance: 'How do I get from A to B?', 'What steps should I take to advance my career to that level?'.