Leveraging mentors to uplevel your career | Jules Walter (YouTube, Slack)

Jan 5, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Jules Walter, a product leader at YouTube and former Slack growth PM, shares essential PM skills (IQ & EQ) and actionable strategies for developing them. He emphasizes the power of deliberate practice, effective feedback, and strategic mentorship to accelerate career growth.

At a Glance
32 Insights
1h 10m Duration
17 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Jules Walter's Background and Career Journey

Common Paths into Product Management

Becoming the First Growth PM at Slack

Founding Black Product Managers Network and CodePath

Distinguishing IQ (Hard) and EQ (Soft) Skills for PMs

Strategies for Improving Interview Skills

Challenges for Underrepresented People in Interviews

Developing EQ Skills: Communication and Self-Awareness

The Role of Mentors and Coaches in Self-Reflection

Overcoming Communication Blockers Through Self-Awareness

Outcome-Driven Approach to Learning New Skills

Learning Strategy, Execution, and Product Sense

Effective Methods for Asking and Receiving Feedback

The Difficulty of Getting Honest EQ Feedback

Identifying and Leaning into Your Strengths

Qualities to Seek in a Mentor

Building and Nurturing Mentor Relationships

IQ Skills (Hard Skills)

These are intellectual or technical skills important for PMs, such as execution, product sense, strategy, and interviewing. They are often learned through mental models and practice, and tend to show clearer, faster progress.

EQ Skills (Soft Skills)

These are emotional intelligence skills like communication, leadership, management, and self-awareness. They are generally harder to learn, require continuous practice over longer periods, and are often highly specific to an individual's unique patterns and blind spots.

Deliberate Practice (Interviewing)

This refers to actively engaging in numerous mock interviews, ideally with experienced interviewers, rather than just mentally preparing or practicing with peers. This focused, feedback-driven practice helps individuals improve their performance faster and ensures they are 'good enough' even under stress.

Outcome-Driven Learning

An approach to skill development where you first define a concrete, measurable outcome you want to achieve (e.g., 'drive activation by X%'). You then work backward to identify the necessary skills, frameworks, best practices, and experts to consult, using the desired outcome as a guiding force.

Shadow Side of Strengths

This concept suggests that a personal strength, when overused or applied inappropriately, can manifest as a weakness. Understanding this allows an individual to 'dial' a behavior up or down depending on the context, recognizing that the underlying trait is still a strength.

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What are the two main paths to becoming a Product Manager?

One common path is to join a startup and start doing product work, gaining experience and a PM title. Another frequent path is to switch into product management internally at an existing company, especially if you have relevant domain expertise.

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What are the most important skills for a Product Manager to develop?

PM skills can be categorized into IQ (intellectual/hard) skills like execution, product sense, strategy, and EQ (emotional intelligence/soft) skills such as communication, leadership, management, and self-awareness. Early in a career, IQ skills are often prioritized, while EQ skills become increasingly important for advancement.

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How can one improve their product management interview skills?

The most effective way is to do dozens of mock interviews, ideally with people who are good at interviewing, to practice deliberately. It's crucial to practice actual interviews, not just read about them, and to seek out communities for practice.

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Why is interviewing often more difficult for underrepresented individuals?

Beyond potential bias, underrepresented individuals often face high pressure, stress, and ambiguity, coupled with self-talk about belonging when they don't see others like themselves in the company or interview panel.

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How can Product Managers get better at EQ skills like communication and self-awareness?

EQ skills are harder to learn and require continuous, deliberate practice over years. Strategies include reading foundational texts (like Minto's Pyramid Principle), saving examples of great communication, seeking honest feedback (especially subjective feedback about how one comes across), and working with mentors or coaches to identify blind spots and behavioral patterns.

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What is an effective strategy for learning new skills as a PM?

Adopt an outcome-driven approach: define a concrete, measurable outcome you want to achieve, then work backward to identify necessary frameworks, best practices, and experts. Engage with experts by asking specific questions, apply what you learn, and iterate, continuously seeking feedback.

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How can a PM improve skills like strategy, execution, and product sense?

Identify and reverse-engineer best practices by studying great artifacts (memos, decks) and observing experts in action. Attend meetings or presentations of highly skilled PMs, and ask to see their iterative process rather than just final products.

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What is the best way to ask for and receive constructive feedback?

Make people comfortable by asking specific questions about a particular behavior or skill, sometimes by offering self-critical feedback first. Most importantly, respond with enthusiastic gratitude, even if the feedback is difficult to hear, to encourage more honest input in the future.

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How can one identify their personal strengths?

A good way to identify strengths is to reflect on what many people consistently tell you you're good at, but which you personally don't consider a big deal or particularly important. These often feel natural and effortless to you.

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What qualities should one look for in a mentor?

Look for someone who is not only excellent at a specific skill or area you want to improve but also good at explaining it clearly.

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What is the best approach to initiate a relationship with a potential mentor?

Make the smallest possible ask, such as a quick email question that can be answered in a couple of minutes, rather than immediately asking for a call or a long-term mentorship commitment.

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How can one foster a strong, ongoing relationship with a mentor?

Always come prepared with specific problems or contexts where their input would be valuable, take notes during conversations, circle back to show how you've applied their advice and the impact it had, and actively look for ways you can be helpful to them in return.

1. Be Grateful for Feedback

Respond to feedback with enthusiastic gratitude, even if it’s difficult, to encourage others to provide more input and accelerate your improvement.

2. Define Learning Outcomes

When learning a new skill, set a concrete, measurable outcome to achieve within a specific timeframe, creating a forcing function for improvement.

3. Work Backwards with Questions

After defining a learning outcome, work backward by asking targeted questions about frameworks, best practices, and examples to guide your learning.

4. Read Little, Talk to Experts

Read a small amount on a topic to refine your questions, then seek out and engage with experts in the field for deeper insights.

5. Apply Advice, Report Back

After receiving guidance, apply the pointers, execute, observe results, and then circle back with your mentor to share progress and seek further advice.

6. Seek Blind Spot Feedback

Actively seek out coaches or mentors who can provide honest feedback and help you identify your blind spots and behavioral patterns.

7. Reverse-Engineer Great Work

To improve a skill like strategy, identify best practices by asking for examples of great work or artifacts from skilled colleagues, then reverse-engineer them.

8. Observe Colleagues’ Process

Ask to observe skilled colleagues during their process (e.g., outlining strategy, drafting updates) to understand their thought process and iterative approach.

9. Save Communication Templates

Maintain a personal archive of well-written emails or executive updates to use as templates and learn from effective communication examples.

10. Ask Specific Feedback Questions

Make people comfortable giving feedback by asking specific, targeted questions rather than broad, open-ended ones.

11. Offer Self-Critical Feedback First

Initiate feedback by offering self-critical observations about your own work, then invite others to agree, disagree, or add their perspective.

12. Seek Subjective Feedback

Actively seek subjective feedback on how you make others feel or how you come across, as this personal insight is crucial for emotional intelligence.

13. Cultivate Vulnerability

Cultivate an environment of trust and vulnerability by being vulnerable yourself, making others feel safe to share honest feedback.

14. Focus on One Skill at a Time

When developing PM skills, focus intensely on improving one skill at a time for a dedicated period (e.g., 3-6 months) to avoid feeling overwhelmed.

15. Implement Weekly Skill Routine

Establish a weekly routine for skill development, such as studying a new example and dedicating daily time to practice the skill towards your outcome.

16. Practice Different Listening Styles

Develop varied listening patterns beyond problem-solving, specifically practicing creating space for others and actively ensuring they feel heard.

17. Identify Your Core Strengths

Discover your core strengths by reflecting on what many people praise you for, but you personally don’t consider a big deal.

18. Understand Strength’s Shadow Side

Recognize that strengths can have a ‘shadow side’ (weakness in different contexts); understanding this allows you to adjust your approach.

19. Find Topic-Specific Mentors

When seeking a mentor, prioritize finding someone who is currently an expert in the specific skill or topic you want to improve.

20. Make Smallest Mentor Ask

When first reaching out to a potential mentor, make the smallest possible ask, such as a quick email question, rather than requesting a meeting.

21. Demonstrate Advice’s Impact

After receiving initial advice from a potential mentor, always circle back to them later to demonstrate how you applied their advice and its impact.

22. Gradually Increase Mentor Asks

After successfully demonstrating the value of their initial advice, gradually increase the ask for a mentor’s time, such as requesting a short call.

23. Bring Specific Problems to Mentors

When meeting with a mentor, always bring a very specific, current problem or decision you’re facing where their input would be directly valuable.

24. Take Notes with Mentors

Always take detailed notes during conversations with mentors to capture their advice and demonstrate your engagement.

25. Build Continuous Mentor Relationships

When following up with mentors, reference previous conversations or personal details to foster a continuous relationship, not just transactional interactions.

26. Actively Offer Mentor Help

Actively seek ways to help your mentors, even if they are senior, by asking ‘Is there anything I can help you with?’ at the end of conversations.

27. Be Patient with PM Learning

Be patient with the challenging process of learning PM skills, especially later in your career, as it takes time to see significant improvements.

28. Adopt Continuous Learning Model

Adopt a mental model for continuous learning in PM skills, understanding it requires consistent practice, feedback, and iteration, not just passive consumption.

29. Practice with Mock Interviews

Perform dozens of mock interviews, ideally with skilled interviewers or peers, to significantly improve your interview performance and manage stress.

30. Form Interview Practice Groups

Create small groups (3-5 people) with peers undergoing the same interview process to make preparation more enjoyable and effectively manage nerves.

31. Practice Until ‘Good Enough’

Practice interview skills extensively so that even on your worst day, your performance is still good enough to succeed.

32. Consider Startup or Internal Switch

To break into product management, consider joining a startup as an early PM or switching internally within a company where you’ve developed domain expertise.

If you give me feedback, I'll be like, hey, thank thank you so much. This is super helpful. Because people are like, oh, he actually likes the feedback. Now, inside, my heart might be melting. You know, I'm like, oh, I thought I got better at this. You know what I mean? But externally, I'm like, hey, thank you. And I mean it.

Jules Walter

You want to basically practice so much that even at your worst, you're good enough.

Jules Walter

Most things you do, people give you some feedback so you can get better at it. But interviewing, you never get any feedback.

Jules Walter

The EQ stuff, it's what you need to focus on is specific to you.

Jules Walter

You need someone to put a mirror in front of you figuratively.

Jules Walter

A lot of learning happens through the iterations and not by seeing the final product.

Jules Walter

What is something that a lot of people say you're good at, but you think is not a big deal, you know, or it's not that important. And that's like the key.

Lawrence Ripsher (as quoted by Jules Walter)

You should make the smallest ask possible, which is the opposite of what 95% of people do.

Jules Walter

The key is to circle back with them at a later point and show that you've actually made good use of the advice. I think that's the thing nobody does.

Jules Walter

Skill Learning and Development Protocol

Jules Walter
  1. Define a concrete, measurable outcome that, if achieved, proves you're better at a specific skill.
  2. Work backward from this outcome to identify necessary frameworks, best practices, and questions.
  3. Read a small amount about the topic to refine your questions.
  4. Find and talk to experts/mentors in the field to get answers and pointers.
  5. Apply the learned concepts by driving initiatives and running experiments.
  6. Go back to the mentor with results (good or bad) and new problems, continuing the learning loop.

Building a Mentor Relationship Protocol

Jules Walter
  1. Make the smallest possible ask initially (e.g., a quick email question that can be answered in two minutes).
  2. Implement the advice received.
  3. Circle back at a later point to show the mentor you've made good use of their advice and the impact it had.
  4. Over time, you can make slightly larger asks (e.g., a 15-minute call) as trust and the relationship build.

Effective Mentor Meeting Protocol

Jules Walter
  1. Bring something very specific you are dealing with where the mentor can provide input.
  2. Take detailed notes during the conversation.
  3. In follow-up communications, refer back to older conversations and advice.
  4. Actively try to identify ways you can be helpful to the mentor.

Asking for Feedback Protocol

Jules Walter
  1. Make people comfortable giving you feedback, especially constructive feedback.
  2. Ask specific questions about a particular behavior or skill you're working on (e.g., 'Did you feel I showed executive presence?').
  3. Consider giving yourself critical feedback first, then invite them to agree or disagree.
  4. Respond with enthusiastic gratitude to any feedback received, even if it's difficult to hear, to encourage future honesty.
$15 million
Slack's revenue when Jules Walter joined in early 2016 Jules joined as the first growth PM.
10x
Growth in Slack's revenue by the time Jules Walter left Revenue grew from $15 million to $150 million over roughly four years.
Double-digit percentages
Impact on top-line metrics like activation at Slack Achieved within six months through changes in user experience, especially on mobile.
Over 5,000
Students trained annually by CodePath At universities with strong underrepresented populations, helping them find tech jobs.
Over 1,000
Members in the Black Product Managers Network community A community for PMs and aspiring PMs to find support and grow skills.
Roughly 15
Initial number of Black PMs known by Jules Walter and Maryanna Quigless This informal count around 2016 led to the creation of the Black Product Managers Network.
95%
Percentage of people who make a 'big ask' when initiating contact with a potential mentor This is contrasted with the recommended approach of making the smallest possible ask.