Mastering paid growth | Jonathan Becker (Thrive Digital)

May 7, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Jonathan Becker, an OG in performance marketing and founder of Thrive Digital, discusses paid growth. He covers privacy shifts, the importance of creatives, attribution challenges, hiring strategies, and AI's impact on the industry.

At a Glance
28 Insights
1h 34m Duration
15 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Impact of AI on Paid Growth and Team Structure

Jonathan Becker's Background and Career in Performance Marketing

The Story of Landing Uber as a Client

Defining Paid Growth and Performance Marketing

Why Diversification is Crucial in Marketing Spend

Company Fit for Paid Growth and Scaling Strategies

Comparing SEO vs. Paid Search Investments

Optimizing Ad Creatives: Strategy and Examples

Effectiveness of TikTok, YouTube, and Amazon for Advertising

Driving Growth for B2B SaaS: Beyond Cost Per Lead

Understanding and Navigating Attribution Challenges

AI's Current and Future Impact on Performance Marketing

Hiring for Paid Growth: In-House vs. Agency

Key Qualifications for Paid Growth Hires

The Story of Landing Snapchat as a Client

Performance Marketing

An umbrella term for paid acquisition or paid ads, where marketing efforts are measurable and focused on specific, trackable outcomes. It involves investing capital with the expectation of a measurable return, often across diverse channels to mitigate volatility.

Creative (in marketing)

Refers to the visual and textual assets used in paid advertising campaigns, such as motion graphics, user-generated content, or static images. Optimizing creatives involves rigorous testing to determine which styles and features perform best for specific audiences at different stages of the marketing funnel.

Attribution

The process of determining the relationship between marketing actions and their resulting outcomes, typically revenue or conversions. It aims to understand which ads or campaigns contributed to a sale, though it remains a subjective art and science due to numerous variables and recent privacy changes.

Lead Scoring Model

A predictive model built using joined data from CRM and ad channels, which statistically determines the likelihood of a lead converting to high-revenue customers. This allows advertisers to bid in real-time on audiences with a higher propensity for valuable conversions, optimizing for profitability over just low cost per lead.

Media Mix Modeling (MMM)

A form of statistical modeling, often regression analysis, used to determine the causal relationship between various marketing activities (e.g., TV ads, paid search, social ads) and their effect on revenue. It's a modern approach to attribution, helping organizations understand the overall impact of their diverse marketing investments.

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What is the primary risk of relying solely on paid acquisition for business growth?

Relying entirely on paid acquisition can be like putting all your life savings into a single volatile stock; if market conditions change or a specific channel's performance fluctuates, the business can suffer dramatically. Diversifying across multiple marketing channels is crucial to mitigate this risk.

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What types of companies are a good fit for pursuing paid growth?

Companies that have established product-market fit and have seen success with other marketing channels (like email, SEO, or direct mail) are generally good candidates. Success also depends on having adequate creative and technical resources, and a focus on the profitability of the bottom line, not just breakneck growth.

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Can startups still achieve massive scale almost exclusively through paid growth today?

Yes, it is still doable, with examples like Grammarly and Athletic Greens demonstrating successful scaling primarily through paid channels. These companies excel at understanding their marketing economics, particularly the relationship between customer acquisition cost and lifetime value.

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How should founders decide between investing in SEO and paid search?

Founders should ideally do both, as SEO and paid search are not mutually exclusive and contribute to channel diversification. Paid search offers more tangible and predictable ROI for finance teams, while SEO, though harder to attribute directly, offers indisputable long-term payoffs when done correctly.

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What is the most effective way to optimize ad creatives?

The most effective way is to undertake rigorous, scientific testing by isolating variables. For example, run two nearly identical creatives to the same audience, with only one variable different (e.g., copy or image), and measure performance using metrics like click-through rate or impressions until conversion to gather learnings and continually iterate.

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What works well for advertising on TikTok?

Founder-led brands where the founder acts as an ambassador, creating handheld iPhone videos discussing product merits and solving problems, tend to perform exceptionally well. Also, companies that partner effectively with influencers to generate authentic third-party content see great results.

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How has AI impacted the performance marketing industry?

AI has influenced the industry for over a decade by automating many performance levers, shifting human capital towards more strategic work like modeling, validation, and creative levers, rather than manual implementation. Tools like ChatGPT and Midjourney/DALL-E are now used for generating ad copy variants, drafting RFP responses, and creating mockups much faster.

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When should an early-stage startup consider hiring an agency versus an in-house performance marketer?

An agency is not mutually exclusive to in-house personnel; both are often needed. Early-stage companies might work with an agency to scale faster, gain expertise, and access resources they don't yet possess in-house, especially for net new experimentation. An in-house professional is essential as a point of contact, even if it's a generalist marketing person.

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What key qualities should one look for when hiring a performance marketing professional?

Look for a strong technical background (e.g., nuclear physics, mathematics, finance, full-stack engineering) indicating aptitude for problem-solving and data. The candidate should also have direct experience managing channels like Meta Ads or Google Ads, and an appreciation for the role of creative, proper attribution, and business mechanics.

1. Capitalize on Opportunities

Be willing to take calculated risks and “shoot your shot” when opportunities arise, as luck often requires you to capitalize on situations you’ve put yourself in.

2. Diversify Marketing Channels

Avoid over-reliance on a single performance marketing channel; instead, diversify your marketing mix across various channels (e.g., email, direct mail, SEO, paid) to mitigate volatility and risk.

3. Prioritize Profitability in Paid Growth

Focus on the profitability of customer acquisition, understanding how much you can afford to spend per customer before it becomes unprofitable, rather than solely pursuing breakneck growth.

4. Attribution: Ongoing Investigation

Approach attribution as an ongoing investigation, continuously looking for evidence to validate campaign outcomes, rather than seeking a single, definitive source of truth, as none exists.

5. Rigorous Creative Testing Process

Establish a rigorous process for testing and iterating creative assets to systematically determine what works, rather than relying on anecdotal findings or individual brilliance.

6. Focus on Strategic Work

Shift human capital to strategic tasks like modeling, validation, asking the right questions, and creative levers, as AI displaces manual implementation and bid modification.

7. Leverage AI for Creative Mockups

Use AI tools like DALL-E or Midjourney to generate creative mockups significantly faster, but ensure you understand how to ask the right questions and iterate effectively.

8. In-House Expertise, Then Agency

If you’re focusing on performance marketing, start by building in-house expertise, and then consider hiring an agency to scale faster, gain more resources, and access specialized capabilities.

9. Hire Technical Performance Marketers

For your first performance marketing hire, prioritize candidates with a strong technical background and ingenuity to solve problems related to tracking, attribution, data visualization, and campaign management.

10. Experienced Performance Marketer Hire

Look for candidates with direct experience managing various ad channels (Meta, Google, TikTok, Amazon) and a deep appreciation for the role of creative, proper attribution, and understanding your business mechanics.

11. Assess Composure & Problem-Solving

In interviews, ask unexpected logic questions (e.g., “How many windows in NYC?”) to assess a candidate’s ability to think on their feet, break down problems, and maintain composure under pressure, especially for client-facing roles.

12. Cultivate Adaptability Culture

Foster a company culture that welcomes change and new technologies, encouraging a playful mindset with new tools rather than resisting shifts in the industry.

13. Advise Clients Bravely

In client interactions, be brave enough to tell clients what you believe they truly need, even if it differs from their initial requests, to avoid inadvertently leading them down the wrong path.

14. Integrate Classic Marketing

Don’t solely focus on performance marketing; remember to leverage classic and offline marketing methods like direct mail, email marketing, and SEO, as they can work beautifully.

15. Exercise Patience in Paid Growth

Do not expect overnight turnarounds in performance marketing; understand that every business is unique and requires patience to work out what works for its specific metrics and nuances.

16. Validate Paid Acquisition Potential

If your business successfully leverages other marketing channels (e.g., social media, email, organic search, direct mail), it’s highly likely that paid acquisition will also be effective.

Don’t view SEO and paid search as mutually exclusive; it’s a great idea to invest in both to diversify channels and create a robust marketing mix.

18. Iterate Creatives Based on Data

Avoid using a single homogenous message across all targeting; instead, dedicate resources to paid marketing and continually iterate creative assets based on performance data from ad sets and campaigns.

19. Scientific Creative Testing

Experiment with creative assets by isolating single variables, maintaining similar targeting conditions, and determining which ad styles perform best for specific audiences at different funnel stages.

20. Structured A/B Testing for Ads

For ad creative testing (e.g., on Meta), create an ad set with a single audience and two nearly identical creatives, varying only one variable (e.g., copy or image) to isolate impact and gather learnings for iteration.

21. Prioritize User-Generated Content

Use unpolished, authentic user-generated content (e.g., iPhone videos with influencers) as it often massively outperforms highly produced ads due to its perceived authenticity.

22. Test Playful Creative Elements

Experiment with unexpected and playful elements in your creatives, such as including pets in product photos, as this can dramatically increase engagement and performance on paid social channels.

23. Use In-Platform Testing Tools

Leverage the sophisticated creative testing tools available directly within ad platforms like Meta Ads and Google Ads, as exotic third-party tools are not always necessary for effective testing.

24. E-commerce: Investigate TikTok Ads

If you are an e-commerce, wholesale, retail, or direct-to-consumer brand, you must investigate TikTok advertising due to its massive, highly engaged audience and exciting opportunities.

25. TikTok: Founder/Influencer Content

On TikTok, founder-led brands creating authentic, handheld iPhone videos, or companies adept at partnering with influencers, tend to achieve significant success due to highly engaging content.

26. High Creative Output for TikTok

Be prepared for the high creative asset demands of TikTok advertising, as it requires launching net new assets several times per week, which necessitates significant creative resourcing and investment.

27. Lead Scoring for High-Value Customers

For lead generation, use data connectors like Supermetrics to pipe CRM revenue data into a database, join it with channel data, and build a lead scoring model to bid on audiences with a higher likelihood of converting to high-revenue customers.

28. Multi-Faceted Attribution Methods

Beyond cookie-based attribution, incorporate statistical modeling (like Media Mix Modeling), customer surveys, and population surveys to gain a comprehensive understanding of campaign impact. Consider tools like Recast for this.

I think you have to make your own luck. So I could have been like, oh, cool. I met this guy in the back of a taxi and that was it. But I decided to take a risk.

Jonathan Becker

I know half my marketing dollars are wasted. I just don't know which half.

John Wanamaker

The effect ultimately that we've seen from a human capital point of view is displacement. We have more people now than we've ever had, but the nature of the work that they do is more strategic.

Jonathan Becker

Anyone who can think a thought can generate an image on a, on an AI image generator.

Jonathan Becker

Be brave, and tell them what they need, rather than just conforming to what they're asking for, because sometimes inadvertently, that leads you down the wrong path.

Jonathan Becker

Rigorous Creative Testing on Meta Ads

Jonathan Becker
  1. Create a campaign structure with a single target audience at the ad set level.
  2. Within that ad set, use two nearly identical creative assets.
  3. Ensure the only difference between the two creatives is a single variable (e.g., copy, image).
  4. Monitor ad performance, acknowledging that ad serving algorithms may deliver different impression numbers.
  5. Use leveling metrics like click-through rate (CTR) or impressions until conversion to compare efficiency.
  6. Gather learnings from the test results to identify which creative style or feature performs best for the audience at that funnel stage.
  7. Send feedback to the creative team to iterate and refine future assets, using successful elements as a new base to challenge.
$3.5 billion
Total paid acquisition budgets deployed by Thrive Digital For companies like Uber, Asana, Square, Tempur-Pedic, MasterClass over the past decade plus.
$500 million
Annual ad spend managed by Thrive Digital For small and large companies.
$70 billion
Google's recorded ad sales in three months Majority from ads, indicating broad effectiveness of the channel.
$32 billion
Facebook's recorded ad sales in three months Majority from ads, indicating broad effectiveness of the channel.
1%
Time reduction for creating mockups using AI Compared to previous manual methods, turning a week's work into an afternoon.
10 years
Duration Thrive Digital worked with Uber Starting from early-stage Uber.
130 people
Number of people on Thrive Digital's team Reflecting the scale of their operations.
80% good
ChatGPT's efficiency for RFP responses Requires about 10 hours of human refinement, replacing a week of work for 5-6 people.