The full-stack PM | Anuj Rathi (Swiggy, Jupiter Money, Flipkart)

Dec 7, 2023 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Anuj Rati, Chief Product & Marketing Officer at Jupiter Money, discusses product management in India, building for new users, and operationalizing the 'working backwards' process. He shares frameworks for product strategy, team leadership, and contrarian views on PM skills.

At a Glance
26 Insights
1h 12m Duration
16 Topics
6 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Anuj Rathi's Background and Recognition

Differences in Product Management and Building in India

Evolution of Modern Product Thinking in India

Understanding the Complexity and Diversity of the Indian Market

Rethinking Approach to New User Experiences

Importance of Product Managers Understanding Category Consumers

Operationalizing the 'Working Backwards' Framework

The Full-Stack Product Manager Mindset

The 'Show, Don't Tell' Framework for Product Design

Anuj's '4BB Framework' for Product Strategy and Prioritization

Contrarian Opinions on Product Development

Essential Skills for a Successful Product Manager

Framework for Diagnosing Leadership Failures

AI in Product Development: Balancing AI with Human Intelligence

Lessons from Building Successful Marketplaces

Balancing and Maintaining Stability in Marketplaces

Lazy, Vain, Selfish User Framework

This framework suggests that modern internet consumers are lazy (don't have time, need to be blown away), vain (have existing habits, don't want to change), and selfish (want to know 'what's in it for me'). Product experiences, especially onboarding, must cater to these attributes to attract and retain new users.

Full-Stack Product Manager

A full-stack PM owns outcomes, not just features, and thinks broadly about the entire product ecosystem. They understand external users, competition, engineering, marketing, and other product leaders, building partnerships and running ideas through diverse stakeholders to ensure product success.

Show, Don't Tell Framework (Product Design)

This approach involves product managers ideating by creating the entire user journey and collaterals, starting from the exact moment a user is triggered to open an app. It focuses on recreating specific scenarios and plotting emotional states to ensure every pixel, copy, and word serves the user's goal, cutting out random product designs.

4BB Framework (Product Strategy)

This framework categorizes product investment into four buckets: Brilliant Basics (tech debt, core platforms), Bread and Butter (optimizing existing products, feature enhancements), Big Bets (large, cross-team strategic initiatives), and Breaking Bad (reimagining company identity, pivots). It helps leadership prioritize resource allocation and manage expectations across these areas.

Can't Do, Won't Do, Not Set Up To Do (Leadership Failure)

This framework helps leaders diagnose why things don't happen as desired. It attributes failure to three categories: capability issues ('can't do'), motivation or alignment issues ('won't do'), or systemic/organizational design problems ('not set up to do'). It guides leaders on whether to coach, align, or fix the system.

Human Intelligence (HI)

A term coined by Swiggy's CEO, emphasizing that artificial intelligence (AI) needs to be balanced with human intelligence. For AI to truly help a company, it must work in conjunction with great user experience and behavioral science, especially in consumer products.

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How is product management different in India compared to other regions?

Product management in India evolved differently because until around 2010, few products were built specifically for Indian consumers. Early product leaders often came from non-software backgrounds, leading to a 'request-response' mentality, and the diverse languages, cultures, and low per capita income in India require unique product thinking.

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What attributes should product managers consider when designing experiences for new internet users?

Product managers should consider that new internet users are lazy, vain, and selfish. This means products must be instantly captivating, respect existing user habits, and clearly demonstrate 'what's in it for me' to capture their attention and drive adoption.

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How can product managers effectively operationalize the 'working backwards' framework?

Beyond just writing a press release from the customer's perspective, operationalizing 'working backwards' involves defining the entire machinery needed for a successful GTM. This includes using the press release and its quotes to align engineering, marketing, and business teams, and exploring three divergent PR FAQs to ensure all options are considered and leadership can compare and contrast.

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What is the 'full-stack PM' mindset and why is it important?

The full-stack PM mindset means owning outcomes, not just features, and thinking holistically about the entire product. It requires understanding and influencing external users, competition, engineering, marketing, and leadership to ensure the product achieves desired business outcomes and builds necessary capabilities.

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How can product leaders use the 'Show, Don't Tell' framework for strategy?

Product leaders can create a 'strategy on a page' that visually depicts the company's entire strategy, including market dynamics, user acquisition, activation, cross-pollination, and key levers. It's recommended to create three divergent strategy options to facilitate alignment among CXOs and communicate the chosen direction to the wider team.

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What are the three essential skills for a successful product manager?

The three essential skills are raw smarts (problem identification and solving), drive/grit (curiosity, learnability, never giving up, consumer-backward thinking), and influence (the ability to persuade and align internal and external stakeholders).

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Why don't OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) work well in marketplaces?

OKRs often fail in marketplaces because their fundamental assumption of solving for a single type of user or independent goals breaks down. In a multi-sided marketplace (e.g., consumers, delivery executives, restaurants), goals for each side are constantly in conflict, making it impossible to set independent objectives without impacting other sides.

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What is a key lesson for building successful marketplaces?

A key lesson is that marketplaces are not linear (1+1=2) but multiply in complexity, requiring a stable foundation where all sides are stable enough not to leave. Companies must then clarify their core customer (e.g., end consumer or seller) and align their vision and values to serve that primary customer, while still working with other sides.

1. Stop Externalizing, Own Misery

Adopt the motto “Stop externalizing” or “You are the reason for your own misery.” When things go wrong, reflect on what you could have done better, taking responsibility for outcomes and focusing on improving your skills rather than blaming external factors.

2. Be a Full-Stack Product Manager

Own outcomes, not just features. A full-stack PM thinks broadly about external users, competition, engineering, and marketing, building partnerships and running ideas through diverse stakeholders to ensure the product achieves desired business outcomes and behavioral changes.

3. Develop Core PM Skills

To succeed in product management, cultivate three core attributes: raw smarts (problem identification/solving), drive/grit (curiosity, learnability, never giving up, consumer-backward thinking), and influence (the ability to persuade others). Be excited about continuously improving in these areas.

4. Assess Product Management Fit

Reflect deeply on whether product management is the right field for you, as many enter without fully understanding its demands. While skills can be coached, a fundamental misalignment can lead to misery, so ensure it genuinely excites you.

5. Prioritize Excellence Over Speed

When faced with a choice between shipping faster or shipping better, prioritize excellence. Encourage “thought experiments” to avoid wasting time on obviously failing ideas, and aim for quality over rapid, undifferentiated launches.

6. Work Backwards from GTM Machinery

When applying the ‘working backwards’ framework, don’t just focus on the customer value proposition; think about the entire machinery needed for a successful Go-To-Market (GTM) on a specific date. Plan all necessary steps from the present to that GTM date to ensure both launch and long-term product success.

7. Explore Three Divergent PR/FAQs

During product discovery, have your teams write three alternative and divergent PR/FAQs (Press Release/Frequently Asked Questions) for a given problem. This ensures thorough exploration of options, helps leadership compare and contrast, and demonstrates that various viewpoints were considered, leading to a more robust decision.

8. Recommend One Strategy

When presenting multiple strategic options (e.g., three divergent PR/FAQs or 4BB allocations), always recommend one specific option. This demonstrates that you’ve thoroughly explored all bases, crystallized a concrete plan, and are prepared to champion it, while still allowing for leadership input and refinement.

9. Use PR/FAQ for Alignment

Leverage the PR/FAQ (Press Release/Frequently Asked Questions) as a powerful tool for internal alignment and negotiation. Use the target GTM date and desired customer/business quotes to engage engineering, marketing, and business leaders, identifying disagreements early and adjusting plans collaboratively.

10. Use FAQs for Systemic Checks

Integrate mandatory systemic checks into your PR/FAQs, such as compliance, legal sign-offs, or implications for all sides of a marketplace (e.g., consumers, delivery partners, restaurants). This ensures that complex interdependencies and critical processes are considered and addressed upfront, leading to more robust product designs.

11. Visualize Strategy on One Page

For product leaders, create a “strategy on a page” (or growth loops) that visualizes the entire company strategy, including market, user acquisition, activation, cross-pollination, and key levers, all on one page. Present three divergent strategic options to gain CXO alignment and clearly communicate the chosen direction to all teams.

12. Use 4BB Product Strategy Framework

To prioritize product strategy, use the 4BB framework: Brilliant Basics (tech debt, core platforms), Bread & Butter (optimizing existing product), Big Bets (large delta bets), and Breaking Bad (redefining company identity/pivoting). Allocate focus points across these buckets with leadership, presenting three divergent alternatives to clarify trade-offs and align on a strategic direction.

13. “Show Don’t Tell” Product Journeys

Instead of just describing, “show, don’t tell” the entire user journey by creating all collaterals and literally recreating the exact situation a specific user (a “person,” not just a persona) would experience. This detailed, pixel-by-pixel approach, including real-time scenarios and emotional states, helps design products effectively and cuts out random design choices.

14. Design for Lazy, Vain, Selfish Users

When building products, especially for new users, assume they are lazy (no time, blow their mind), vain (resistant to changing habits), and selfish (show them what’s in it for them). Design onboarding, copy, and first-welcome experiences to empathize with these attributes, as this is more critical for product success than core features for loyal users.

15. Unify Marketing & Onboarding

Connect your marketing messages directly to the onboarding experience. Understand the user’s trigger, marketing message, and promotion that led them to your product, then seamlessly continue that journey in your onboarding with consistent language and user experience to show instant results.

16. Optimize for Marginal Users

Focus on the “marginal user” or “adjacent user” – those who are not yet using your product or are new to it – when optimizing the onboarding experience, rather than solely focusing on existing loyal users.

17. Lead with One Value Proposition

When attracting new users, choose one clear value proposition or positioning statement and carry it consistently through the entire user journey, from marketing to onboarding, instead of overwhelming them with all product features.

18. Be a Full-Stack Influencer

Recognize that product management is fundamentally about influence, both internally (engineers, leadership) and externally (users). Embrace the role of a “full-stack influencer” to drive desired behaviors and achieve product success.

19. Combine AI with Human Intelligence

When building with AI, focus on how Artificial Intelligence (AI) can work synergistically with Human Intelligence (HI). Balance AI capabilities with great UX and behavioral science to ensure the best outcomes, rather than relying solely on technology.

20. Diagnose Performance Issues

As a leader, when things don’t go as planned, diagnose the root cause: is it a capability issue (can’t do), a motivation/alignment issue (won’t do), or a systemic problem with setup/org design (not set up to do)? Address the specific root cause, such as coaching, mentoring, re-aligning, or improving organizational structure.

21. Ensure Stable Marketplace First

Before prioritizing one side of a marketplace, ensure all sides are stable enough to prevent them from leaving. A stable foundation is crucial before deciding which customer segment to primarily serve.

22. Clarify Primary Marketplace Customer

After achieving marketplace stability, clearly define your primary customer (e.g., end consumer, seller, delivery partner) based on your company’s vision and values. This clarity guides product development and ensures all other sides are viewed as partners in serving that primary customer.

23. Manage Multiple Marketplace Empathies

In marketplaces, product managers must manage “multiple empathies” simultaneously, understanding the emotional states and scenarios faced by all sides (e.g., consumers, delivery executives, restaurants). PMs for one side must also champion the needs of other sides to create a cohesive experience.

24. Use Big Bets for Marketplaces

For marketplaces, “big bets” are more effective than OKRs. Frame strategic initiatives as comprehensive stories where pulling one lever (e.g., increasing delivery fees) is understood in the context of its impact on all other marketplace sides, allowing for strategic direction setting.

25. Avoid OKRs in Marketplaces

In complex multi-sided marketplaces (e.g., three-way), traditional OKRs (Objectives and Key Results) often fail because goals for different user types (consumers, suppliers, delivery) are inherently in conflict. Instead, consider alternative strategic frameworks that account for multiplying complexities and interdependencies.

26. AB Tests Fail in Marketplaces

Be aware that A/B experiments often don’t work as expected in marketplaces due to pervasive network effects. Running A/B tests on one side (e.g., drivers) can have unintended and complex network impacts on other sides, making results unreliable.

You have to think about users or modern internet consumers having three attributes. So they are lazy, they are vain, and they're selfish.

Anuj Rathi

We are in the business of influence, and you are doing this all the time internally. Otherwise, you are anyway not successful even in shipping. Now we have to extend this to our users.

Anuj Rathi

Most experiments should be thought experiments. They should not even be tried out because they're obviously going to fail.

Anuj Rathi

There are only three reasons why things do not happen the way you want them to happen as a leader. And you can look at a person and you would say, either that person can't do, which is a capability issue, or they won't do, which is a motivation or an alignment issue, or they were not set up to do, which is really your problem that you didn't set up the ways of working in org design properly.

Anuj Rathi

You are the reason for your own misery.

Anuj Rathi

Operationalizing the Working Backwards Framework

Anuj Rathi
  1. Write a press release (PR FAQ) detailing the product, launch date, value proposition, and anticipated customer/business responses.
  2. Use the PR FAQ to align all stakeholders (engineering, marketing, business) on what needs to be built and achieved by the GTM date.
  3. Write three alternative and divergent PR FAQs for the same problem or opportunity.
  4. Use these three PR FAQs to compare and contrast options, ensuring all bases are covered and facilitating leadership decision-making.
  5. Explicitly include FAQs in the PR FAQ to address potential concerns (e.g., compliance, marketplace implications) and set system processes.

Show, Don't Tell Product Design

Anuj Rathi
  1. Choose a specific 'person' (not just a persona) with detailed attributes, needs, desires, and frustrations.
  2. Recreate an exact scenario: what triggered this user to open the app at a specific time?
  3. Plot out the entire user journey, literally from the first screen, considering every pixel, copy, and word in service of that user's goal.
  4. For complex products or marketplaces, simultaneously plot what is happening on other sides of the equation (e.g., delivery executive, restaurant partner) and the emotional state of the user.
  5. Create various scenarios (e.g., delayed food, punctured tire) to understand how the product needs to respond and manage user emotions.
1.4 billion
India's population Refers to the large number of people in India, contributing to market complexity.
$2,000-$2,500
India's per capita income range Compared to the U.S. (30 times more), indicating a lower willingness to pay and harder work needed to find paying customers.
Every 15 miles
Frequency of language/culture change in India A quote highlighting the extreme diversity within India, impacting product localization.
70-80%
Percentage of problems that are 'setup issues' for product leaders Refers to problems stemming from poor organizational design or ways of working, rather than individual capability or motivation.