The rituals of great teams | Shishir Mehrotra of Coda, YouTube, Microsoft

Aug 14, 2022 Episode Page ↗
Overview

This episode features Shashir Mehrotra, co-founder and CEO of Coda, discussing growth strategies like blue and black loops, the rituals of great teams, Eigenquestions for decision-making, and his unique framework (PSHE) for evaluating product talent and conducting effective reference checks.

At a Glance
34 Insights
1h 31m Duration
21 Topics
7 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Shishir's Background and Role at Coda

Coda's Growth Strategy: Black Loops and Blue Loops

Why Businesses Should Think in Loops, Not Funnels

Discovering Your Business's Core Growth Loops

Introduction to 'The Rituals of Great Teams' Book

Bing Gordon's Three Rules of Golden Rituals

Coda's Golden Ritual: Dory and Pulse

Impactful Rituals from Other Companies

How to Develop and Adapt Team Rituals

Applying the 'Switch' Framework to Rituals

Examples of Airbnb's Unique Rituals

YouTube's Early Challenges and 'Consistency over Comprehensiveness'

Understanding and Applying Eigenquestions

The Teleportation Device Eigenquestion Exercise

Evaluating Talent with the PSHE Framework

Effective Reference Checking Strategies

Recommended Books

Favorite TV Shows and Movies

Favorite Interview Questions (Dashboard Prompt)

Respected Industry Thought Leaders

Go-To Karaoke Song

Black Loop

A product growth loop where users naturally share content, leading others to create new content, which then gets shared again. This viral action, common in document platforms, drives internal team collaboration and adoption.

Blue Loop

A product growth loop where users publish content publicly, gaining exposure or building their brand, and in turn, exposing new users to the product. This loop is driven by the creator's incentive to share their work with a broader audience, attracting problem-solvers who discover solutions through published content.

Golden Rituals

Core practices within a company that are named, known by every employee by their first Friday, and templated. These rituals are indicative of the team's culture and provide a shared understanding of how work gets done and decisions are made.

Dory Pulse

Coda's golden ritual for meetings and write-ups designed to foster unbiased contributions and focused discussions. 'Pulse' involves everyone writing down their opinions before seeing others' to prevent groupthink, while 'Dory' (named after the fish) is a process of upvoting questions to prioritize discussion topics.

Eigenquestions

A fundamental question that, when answered, automatically answers or eliminates the most subsequent questions on a list. Identifying and answering an eigenquestion provides significant leverage, simplifying complex decision-making processes by revealing underlying strategic principles.

Consistency over Comprehensiveness

A strategic principle where the value of a product or service is derived from providing a reliable and predictable experience, even if it doesn't offer every possible option. This contrasts with aiming for comprehensiveness, which might lead to an inconsistent or fragmented user experience.

PSHE Framework

A talent evaluation framework that stands for Problem, Solution, How, and Execution. It assesses an individual's ability to identify problems, devise creative solutions, plan the execution (the 'how'), and carry out tasks, providing a nuanced view of capability beyond just the scope of their work.

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How do products truly grow and spread?

Products grow and spread through various 'loops' (cyclical actions like sharing and creating) rather than linear 'funnels,' which is a more accurate way to understand growth dynamics.

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What are the three rules of 'golden rituals' for great teams?

Golden rituals must be named, known by every employee by their first Friday, and templated, reflecting the core culture and operations of the team.

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How can teams effectively change things when change is hard?

Teams can change things by directing the 'writer' (telling people what to do), motivating the 'elephant' (branding and incentivizing), and shaping the 'path' (templatizing and making it easy to follow new behaviors), as outlined in the 'Switch' framework.

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What is an 'eigenquestion'?

An eigenquestion is a fundamental question that, once answered, clarifies or resolves many other related questions, providing significant leverage in decision-making.

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What is the most effective way to evaluate talent?

The most effective way to evaluate talent is through reference checks, as they provide real-world insights into a candidate's performance over time, often surpassing signals from artificial interview scenarios.

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How can you assess a candidate's ability to identify and solve problems?

Use frameworks like PSHE (Problem, Solution, How, Execution) during interviews and reference checks to understand if a candidate can define problems, devise creative solutions, plan execution, or simply follow a playbook.

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Why did YouTube prioritize consistency over comprehensiveness in its early days?

YouTube prioritized consistency to ensure a reliable user experience, believing that users valued a consistent playback and feature set more than having access to every piece of video content available online, even if it meant not linking out to external sites like abc.com for popular shows.

1. Prioritize Reference Checks

Value reference checks over interview signals in hiring, as they provide deeper, long-term knowledge from people who worked with the candidate for years, offering insights that short, artificial scenarios cannot.

2. Identify Eigenquestions

When facing multiple complex questions, identify the ‘Eigenquestion’ – the single question that, when answered, automatically resolves the most other subsequent questions, simplifying decision-making.

3. Use PSHE for Talent Evaluation

Assess individuals based on their ability to identify problems (P), devise solutions (S), determine the ‘how’ (H) of implementation, and execute (E), recognizing that senior roles involve more P and S, while junior roles focus on H and E.

4. Establish Golden Rituals

Implement core team rituals that are named, known by every employee by their first Friday, and templated, as these act as a mirror of the company’s culture and drive desired behaviors.

5. Apply Dory Pulse Method

For meetings and write-ups, implement ‘Pulse’ where everyone writes their thoughts before seeing others’ to ensure unbiased contributions, and ‘Dory’ where questions are upvoted to prioritize discussion topics.

6. Eliminate Share Friction

Design your pricing and product to remove any friction, especially monetary, at the point where users share content or invite others, as this moment is crucial for viral growth.

7. Map Product Growth Loop

Recognize that almost all products grow through some form of loop, not just a linear funnel, and actively work to understand and map out how your product’s growth loop functions.

8. Develop Reference Check Guide

Create a specific guide for reference checks that outlines targeted questions designed to uncover insights into a candidate’s PSHE capabilities, as this is more important than the interview guide itself.

9. Employ Contrast in References

When conducting reference checks, ask questions that draw contrasts between different skill sets or ask about the best person for a specific skill on the team, allowing the referrer to provide honest feedback without feeling like they are directly judging the candidate.

10. Perform Early Reference Checks

Conduct reference checks as early in the hiring process as practically possible to avoid a negative candidate experience of being dinged at a late stage and to quickly identify potential mismatches.

11. Incorporate Work Exercises

Include real work exercises or candidate presentations at the start of the interview loop, allowing candidates to demonstrate their skills in a practical context and ‘upper bound’ their abilities, providing a strong signal after reference checks.

12. Balance Interview Question Types

Structure your interview questions to balance ‘home court’ (your company’s problems), ‘away court’ (candidate’s past work), and ’neutral court’ (hypothetical scenarios) to get a comprehensive and unbiased view of the candidate’s abilities.

13. Include Candidate ‘Brag Session’

Allocate a portion of the interview process for candidates to present whatever they want, encouraging them to ‘upper bound’ their abilities and share what they believe is truly amazing about themselves, ensuring they don’t leave feeling unheard.

14. Define Decision Roles

In decision-making processes, clearly define and pre-fill the expected decision or input from each participant (e.g., approver, decider, informed) to avoid consensus-building to a fault and ensure clear accountability.

15. Prioritize by Leverage

Instead of ranking your to-do list by importance or urgency, prioritize tasks by which ones are most likely to create leverage, effectively eliminating or simplifying other items on your list.

16. Apply ‘Switch’ Framework

When trying to implement change or new rituals, use the ‘Switch’ framework: direct the ‘rider’ (tell people what to do), motivate the ’elephant’ (appeal to emotions/incentives), and shape the ‘path’ (make it easy to follow).

17. Name Team Rituals

Give your team rituals a specific name to help people anchor ideas, form identity around them, and make them more memorable and shareable, which aids in adoption and cultural integration.

18. Templatize Team Rituals

To ensure ritual adoption, templatize them and make them as easy as possible to follow, integrating them seamlessly into daily workflows so they become a natural part of how the team operates.

19. Practice Eigenquestions Frivolously

To improve your ability to identify Eigenquestions, practice this skill in low-stakes, even frivolous, situations (e.g., hypothetical scenarios, everyday observations) rather than only in high-pressure, real-world contexts.

20. Optimize Onboarding Experience

Focus on improving your product’s onboarding experience to quickly and reliably guide users to their ‘aha moment,’ as this is a high-leverage opportunity for both sign-up conversion and long-term retention.

21. Embed Best Practice Sharing

Design your product so that users can easily create and share content (e.g., templates, documents) that others can copy and adapt, embedding the sharing of best practices directly into your product’s growth mechanism.

22. Promote External Writing

Encourage employees to write and publish content externally (e.g., Coda docs, blog posts) to help them understand the tools, learn how the system works, and potentially drive product exposure.

23. Implement Writing Review

Implement a review process for your written work, allowing others to provide feedback and help improve the framing and content, especially for complex topics.

24. Visualize Business Ecosystem

Draw a diagram of your business’s ecosystem to visualize how your product spreads and grows, helping to understand its dynamics and identify growth loops.

25. Refine Pitch with Candidates

Use conversations with job candidates as an opportunity to refine and clarify your business’s core purpose and growth strategy, as they are discerning investors of their time.

26. Adopt Platform Mindset

If building a platform product, understand and embrace that your connection to the end-user is often indirect, mediated by creators or other users, which changes how you manage your team and product.

27. Start Meetings with Reset

Begin meetings by randomly selecting a team member to play their personal one-minute ‘Reset’ video (a breathing exercise with personal elements), which helps everyone achieve a Zen state and learn about each other.

28. Involve Interviewers in Offer Calls

When extending a job offer, have the entire interview panel join the call to share why the candidate is amazing and should join, creating an exceptional candidate experience and signaling the importance of hiring.

29. Ask Missed Questions

Conclude reference checks by asking the referrer, ‘What questions should I have asked that I didn’t?’ to uncover additional, potentially crucial, information or perspectives.

30. Read ‘Switch’ Book

Read ‘Switch’ by Chip and Dan Heath to learn effective strategies for implementing change, particularly when change is difficult, by understanding how to direct the ‘rider,’ motivate the ’elephant,’ and shape the ‘path.’

31. Read ‘Understanding Comics’

Read ‘Understanding Comics’ by Scott McCloud to gain insights into the art of visual storytelling and diagramming, enhancing your ability to communicate complex ideas effectively through a hybrid of art and writing.

32. Dashboard/Me-Too Product Interview

Ask candidates to design a one-page dashboard for a product they don’t own, then challenge them to design a ‘bare minimum’ me-too version with limited resources, and finally, identify one differentiation point, to assess their PSHE thinking and prioritization skills.

33. Evaluate ‘How’ for Seniors

For more senior roles, shift evaluation focus from the scope of work to how the individual performs their job, assessing their ability to identify problems and devise solutions rather than just managing larger projects.

34. Co-Edit Projects Openly

For large projects like writing a book, consider co-editing in the open by sharing chapters with a ‘brain trust’ or community, leveraging collective feedback for improvement and broader engagement.

I generally value the reference check over interview signals.

Shishir Mehrotra

Great companies has a very small list of golden rituals. And there are three rules of golden rituals. Number one, they're named. Number two, every employee knows them by their first Friday and number three, their template.

Bing Gordon (quoted by Shishir Mehrotra)

Rituals are a mirror of culture.

Shishir Mehrotra

The Coda Gallery feels halfway between medium and an app store.

Coda User (quoted by Shishir Mehrotra)

The question that when answered also answers the most subsequent questions.

Shishir Mehrotra

We would much rather be on fewer phones with a more consistent experience than be on all of them with an inconsistent experience.

Shishir Mehrotra

Coda's Dory Pulse Ritual

Shishir Mehrotra
  1. In meetings and write-ups, participants use 'Pulse' to write down their opinions without seeing others' contributions, ensuring unbiased input.
  2. Participants use 'Dory' to put questions on the table and then upvote or downvote them to prioritize discussion topics.
  3. The meeting runner defines roles (e.g., Responsible, Approver, Participant, Informed, Decider) for each person and pre-fills the desired decision or input needed from key roles, grouping feedback by these roles.

Arianna Huffington's Reset Ritual

Arianna Huffington (described by Shishir Mehrotra)
  1. Create a one-minute personal video that includes a breathing exercise, personal photos (e.g., kids, hometown), and favorite quotes or music.
  2. Start team meetings by randomly selecting a person ('spin the wheel') and playing their personal reset video.

Gusto's Hiring Call Ritual

Shishir Mehrotra (describing Gusto's ritual)
  1. When extending a job offer, the entire group of people who interviewed the candidate joins the offer call.
  2. Each interviewer shares specific reasons why the candidate is exceptional and why they should join Gusto.

Coinbase's Rapids Decision-Making Ritual

Shishir Mehrotra (describing Coinbase's ritual)
  1. Define clear roles for decision-making: Responsible, Approver, Participating, Informed, Decider (RAPID).
  2. The person leading the meeting pre-fills the desired decision or specific input required from each role.
  3. Organize and group feedback and contributions according to these defined roles, emphasizing the inputs from approvers and deciders.

PSHE-based Reference Checking for Talent Evaluation

Shishir Mehrotra
  1. Ask the reference to identify who on their team is best at identifying problems, devising solutions, planning execution, or executing playbooks.
  2. Provide contrast by describing different personas (e.g., problem-finder, solution-creator, team-mover, precise executor) without indicating preference, to encourage honest and unbiased feedback.
  3. Always ask the reference if they would hire the person again (and how excitedly), and what key questions the interviewer should have asked but didn't.
almost a third
Percentage of Coda users coming through the Blue Loop Users exposed to Coda through published docs rather than direct sharing or starting from scratch.
roughly one in five
Activation rate for users starting from a blank cursor Percentage of users who reach Coda's activation moment when starting without a shared document or template.
almost two years
Time spent writing 'The Rituals of Great Teams' book so far Shishir Mehrotra's progress on his upcoming book.
over a thousand
Number of people interviewed for 'The Rituals of Great Teams' book Individuals who shared their team rituals with Shishir Mehrotra.
almost 15 years
Time since YouTube's 'consistency over comprehensiveness' decision Refers to the strategic decision made around 2008 regarding content strategy.
80%
YouTube app share on iPhones after 6 months of relaunch After YouTube took back control of its iPhone app from Apple.