CMO Of Netflix, Uber & Apple! Work Life Balance Is BAD Advice! "I Lost My Baby & My Husband!" - Bozoma Saint John

Aug 10, 2023
Overview

Bozoma St. John, Forbes' #1 most influential marketing chief, shares her journey of resilience, overcoming personal tragedies and career challenges at companies like Apple and Netflix, emphasizing intuition, self-worth, and defining personal success.

At a Glance
15 Insights
1h 34m Duration
18 Topics
8 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Early Life, Survival, and Cultural Identity

Parental Influence on Success and Self-Worth

Defining Power Beyond Titles in Leadership

Finding Your Destiny: Letting Go and Active Creation

Cultivating and Trusting Your Intuition

Sunday Scaries as a Signal for Life Reevaluation

The Pivotal Spike Lee Script Incident

Leadership Lessons: Fostering Contribution and Managing Failure

Coping with the Loss of a Loved One to Suicide

Navigating Grief, Guilt, and Asking for Help

Meeting Peter and Challenging Preconceptions in Love

First Pregnancy, Loss of Eve, and Marital Strain

Second Pregnancy and Peter's Terminal Cancer Diagnosis

Reconciliation and Forgiveness Before Peter's Death

Impact of Personal Tragedies on Career and Life Urgency

The Power of Selfishness in Life and Career

Identifying Core Strengths and Qualities of a Great Marketer

Final Advice: The Importance of Knowing Yourself

Phoenix Metaphor

Bozoma Saint John uses the phoenix metaphor to describe her repeated ability to rise after her world has 'burned' multiple times. It's not an immediate miracle but involves dusting off, letting feathers grow back, trying to fly again despite pain, and eventually taking off.

Let Go and Let God (Bozoma's Interpretation)

This concept, for Bozoma, is not about passive surrender but an active letting go of preconceived ideas about one's path. It involves moving and creating space for destiny to find you, rather than sitting idly and waiting for things to happen.

Intuition as a Muscle

Intuition is described as a muscle that needs to be worked, listened to, and made brave to speak. If consistently ignored or dismissed, that inner voice will get quieter, making it harder to hear and trust.

Sunday Scaries

The 'Sunday Scaries' are identified as a very important signal indicating that one has made a 'wrong turn' in life, whether in a job or a relationship. It's a consistent mood of 'ickiness' or dread that screams at you to reevaluate your situation.

Contribution Score

This is a mental model for the historical value of a person's contributions in a team setting. If a person consistently speaks without valuable input, their 'contribution score' lowers, meaning their future input starts at a lower level of appreciation.

Leader's Role in Failing Fast

When an idea bombs, a leader's job is to protect the spirit and confidence of the people who contributed it. This involves encouraging them to 'dust themselves off' and try again, ensuring they don't become a pariah, and learning from the outcome without blame.

Seeing the Forest

This refers to the ability to see the entire picture of a problem or situation, rather than just focusing on individual 'trees.' It allows for understanding how different elements connect and identifying the core issues to address for broader impact.

Selfishness in Life and Career

Bozoma defines selfishness as putting oneself at the center of one's life and career, prioritizing personal happiness and satisfaction. She argues that one cannot be a great contributor to society, a good friend, or a good parent if not living a life that brings them joy and fulfillment.

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How did Bozoma Saint John develop her ability to read people quickly?

Her ability to read people quickly and understand who is a friend or foe was developed as a survival skill during her childhood, having to uproot and recreate herself multiple times due to political coups and moves between countries.

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What gives a person power in leadership if not a title?

Power in leadership comes from influence, talent, and the ability to execute. It requires convincing others that your ideas are right, getting them to follow you, and consistently being correct in your decisions to build an unquestionable reputation.

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How can one find their destiny?

Finding your destiny involves actively letting go of preconceived ideas about what you're supposed to do, moving past walls that aren't breaking, and allowing space for what's coming. It's a constant process of movement, discovery, and listening to your intuition.

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How do you tune into your intuition and block out external voices?

Tuning into intuition is like working a muscle; you must listen to it and make it brave to speak. If you keep dismissing it, the voice will get quieter. Trusting it 100% and allowing it to lead you, even when logic or others' advice contradicts it, strengthens this inner guidance.

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What is the lesson from Bozoma Saint John taking a red pen to Spike Lee's script at 22?

The lesson is that there is no one who knows more about anything than you do, and it's important to question even experts. It also taught her as a leader not to dismiss team members for lack of tenure, as junior people can offer different perspectives and valuable contributions.

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How should leaders manage the failure of ideas within a team?

Leaders should protect the spirit and confidence of team members when an idea bombs. This means encouraging them to 'dust themselves off' and try again, ensuring they don't become a pariah, and conducting a 'Monday morning quarterbacking' session to learn from what went right and wrong without punishment.

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How does Bozoma Saint John manage the guilt and grief of a loved one's suicide?

She deals with it by being conscious of others' delicacy and offering help, but has also grown to understand that a person's choice to live or leave their life is ultimately their own, and it didn't necessarily have anything to do with her actions.

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What is Bozoma Saint John's advice on when to quit a job or relationship?

Her advice is to be selfish and prioritize yourself. If a situation doesn't serve you, think of yourself first. Don't waste your life away being unhappy or unsatisfied; if you're experiencing 'Sunday scaries' or 'ickiness,' it's a signal to reevaluate and make a change.

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What makes a great marketer?

Great marketers are great storytellers who can make people believe anything by crafting narratives close enough to the truth. They are also deeply curious about people, constantly asking questions about why they do and like the things they do, rather than just relying on their own experiences.

1. Be Selfish in Life, Career

Prioritize your own well-being and happiness by putting yourself at the center of your life, as you cannot contribute effectively to others if you are not wholly happy.

2. Define Your Own Success

Clearly articulate your personal definition of success, beyond external metrics like titles or money, to ensure your life’s direction is authentically yours and not dictated by others.

3. Cultivate and Trust Intuition

Develop your intuition like a muscle by listening to its guidance, even when logic or external advice conflicts, as it will draw you to your true path.

4. Let Go of Preconceptions

Release rigid, preconceived ideas about what you are “supposed” to do, allowing space for new, unexpected opportunities and directions to emerge.

5. Heed Sunday Scaries Signals

Pay attention to feelings of dread or “ickiness” in any area of your life, such as “Sunday scaries” about work or discomfort in relationships, as these are critical signals that something needs reevaluation.

6. Question Experts and Authority

Maintain conviction in your own perspective and do not hesitate to challenge experts or authority figures, as your unique viewpoint can provide invaluable insights.

7. Recognize Others’ Choices

Understand and respect that how others choose to live or leave their lives is their decision, as you cannot control or change the choices of those you love.

8. Choose Forgiveness, Reconciliation

When faced with life’s finality or significant conflict, actively choose to engage in conversations about forgiveness and reconciliation, as anger and past misunderstandings often become irrelevant.

9. See the Whole Picture (Forest)

Develop the ability to view problems from a holistic perspective, seeing the “forest” rather than just individual “trees,” to identify root causes and strategic solutions.

10. Protect Team Confidence Post-Failure

As a leader, actively protect the spirit and confidence of team members after an idea or project fails, fostering a “fail fast” environment where contributions are valued regardless of outcome.

11. Create Space for Junior Voices

Intentionally solicit opinions from junior team members in meetings, as their fresh perspectives can challenge existing strategies and lead to innovative contributions.

12. Conduct Blameless Post-Mortems

After a project or idea fails, conduct a thorough review to analyze what went right and wrong, focusing on learning and improvement rather than allowing blame or “I told you so” attitudes.

13. Cultivate Curiosity About People

To excel in marketing, foster deep curiosity about human behavior, constantly asking why people do and like certain things, rather than relying solely on your own experiences.

14. Seek Help When Powerless

If a friend is going through a tough time and you feel unable to help them alone, consider who else you can involve to provide support, rather than bearing the full burden.

15. Proactively Check on Friends

Be conscious of the delicacy of human lives and proactively check in on friends, especially those who appear strong or are going through difficulties, even driving to see them if they sound off.

If there's anything to know, it is that my world has burned a few times, and that I have risen every time.

Bozoma Saint John

When you go to their house, you do the things they want to do. When they come to your house, they do the things you want to do.

Bozoma Saint John (quoting her mother)

A title isn't going to give you power. You know, a title doesn't actually give you anything.

Bozoma Saint John

The letting go, for me, is like the letting go of preconceived ideas about what it is that you are going to do.

Bozoma Saint John

It's like any muscle. You've got to work it. You've got to listen to it. You have to make it brave to talk to you.

Bozoma Saint John

You are going to be unsatisfied with your life. That is the scariest thing.

Bozoma Saint John

If you don't trust it, nothing I do is going to make you like the company.

Bozoma Saint John

Be selfish in your life, in your career. Think about yourself all of the time.

Bozoma Saint John

The only way you're going to get there is by listening to yourself, is by following your intuition, is by doing the things that you're really good at.

Bozoma Saint John

Finding Your Destiny

Bozoma Saint John
  1. Let go of preconceived ideas about what you are going to do.
  2. Recognize when you're hitting a 'cement wall' and be open to moving to a different path, even if it's just 'five feet to the right' to find 'plaster'.
  3. Allow space for whatever is coming for you by not actively looking for the next predetermined thing.
  4. Actively polish other skills and create, as the next opportunity might be in that space.
  5. Listen to your intuition; it acts like a magnet, drawing you closer to what you're supposed to do.
  6. Engage in constant movement and discovery, as this active process brings your destiny to you.

Tuning Into Your Intuition

Bozoma Saint John
  1. Work your intuition like any muscle; you've got to listen to it.
  2. Make your intuition brave to talk to you; if you keep dismissing it, that voice will get quieter.
  3. Trust your intuition 100%, even when logic or external advice suggests otherwise, as it leads to opportunities for happiness and peace.

Responding to a Loved One's Crisis

Bozoma Saint John
  1. Consider whether you are their 'last call' and if you feel powerless or lack answers, pull others in to help.
  2. Be conscious that people are delicate and may have unsettled feelings beneath the surface, even if they appear to have everything together.
  3. Check in on friends, especially 'strong' ones; if they don't answer or sound 'funny,' consider physically checking on them to ensure they are alright.

Becoming a Great Marketer

Bozoma Saint John
  1. Be more curious about people and ask a lot of questions about why they do the things they do and why they like certain things.
  2. Do not solely rely on your own knowledge and experiences; while being a 'focus group of one' is useful, deep curiosity about others' choices is essential.
12 years old
Age when Bozoma Saint John moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado A significant shift in her world where she had to recreate herself.
22 years old
Age when Bozoma Saint John marked up Spike Lee's script This pivotal moment led to her securing a job and changed her life.
1.5 hours
Distance from Wesleyan University to New York City The proximity influenced her decision to move to New York after college.
November 9th, 2000
Date Bozoma Saint John met Peter The beginning of their romantic relationship.
8 months
Time known Peter before moving in together They moved quickly in their relationship.
1 year
Time known Peter before engagement Peter proposed after one year of knowing each other.
2003
Year Bozoma Saint John married Peter Three years after they first met.
2008
Year of Bozoma Saint John's first pregnancy Almost five years into her marriage with Peter.
5 months pregnant
Pregnancy stage when complications began First signs of preeclampsia and low amniotic fluid during her first pregnancy.
3 months
Time between Eve's death and second pregnancy Bozoma got pregnant again quickly after losing her first child.
7 months pregnant
Pregnancy stage when second pregnancy became complicated Despite precautions, she still got sick during her second pregnancy.
13 years
Duration of Peter and Bozoma Saint John's relationship when he was diagnosed with cancer This was after they had separated and agreed to divorce.