Masculinity Debate: Are Dating Apps Creating A Generation Of Incels?! Lonely Men Are More Dangerous Than Ever!
This episode features Logan Ury, a behavioral scientist and dating coach, and Scott Galloway, discussing the crisis facing young men, including loneliness, addiction, and struggles in education and dating. They explore the causes and offer actionable insights for men, parents, and society to address these challenges.
Deep Dive Analysis
19 Topic Outline
Introduction to the 'Lost Boys Report' and the Crisis Facing Young Men
Logan Ury's Expertise in Behavioral and Relationship Science
Scott Galloway's Perspective on Societal Trends Affecting Men
The Impact of Fatherless Homes on Boys' Development
Challenges for Boys within the Education System
The Absence of Male Role Models in Boys' Lives
Economic Policies and the 'Winner Take All' Society
Dating Statistics and the Reverse Gender Pay Gap for Young People
Hypergamy and Changing Dating Standards for Women
The Disconnect Between What Women Say They Want and What They Are Attracted To
The Role and Benefits of Men's Support Groups
The Dangers of Pornography and Digital Addiction for Young Men
Rejection Resilience and the Impact of Pandemic on Social Skills
Challenges for Men Approaching Women in a Post-MeToo Era
The Influence of Feminism and Changing Gender Roles
The Link Between Money, Identity, and Self-Worth for Men
Advice for Parents Raising Young Boys
Personal Reflections on Unlearning Traditional Masculinity
Societal Loneliness, Birth Rate Decline, and Political Polarization
6 Key Concepts
Mating Gap
This refers to the growing disparity between the type of men women are looking for and the type of men available. High-performing, high-earning women struggle to find partners who meet their expectations, leading to a smaller pool of desirable men and many men being ignored.
Orchid or Dandelion Parenting Theory
This theory suggests that some children (orchids) need very specific, nurturing environments to thrive, while others (dandelions) can survive and grow in many different situations. Girls tend to be more like dandelions, exhibiting more resilience in challenging childhood circumstances, while boys are often more like orchids, being more negatively impacted by adverse situations.
Hypergamy
Traditionally, hypergamy describes the tendency for women to seek partners who have more economic or social status than they do. While this worked for much of human history when men typically held more resources, changing societal dynamics mean there are now fewer men who fit this traditional 'upward' mating preference for many women.
Consumer Dissonance (Dating Context)
This marketing term, applied to dating, describes the gap between what people say they want in a partner and what they are actually attracted to or 'buy' into. For women, this can manifest as stating a desire for emotionally in-touch men, but still being physically attracted to traditionally masculine men.
Surplus Value (Masculinity)
This concept suggests that true masculinity is about adding more value than one takes, whether in terms of tax revenue, emotional support, or protection. It implies a shift from a self-serving mindset to one of generosity and contribution, noticing others' lives and defending the vulnerable.
Rejection Resilience
This is the ability to cope with and recover from rejection. The episode highlights a decline in rejection resilience among Gen Z, leading to an unwillingness to take risks in dating and other life aspects, as they fear failure and negative feedback.
10 Questions Answered
The 'Lost Boys Report,' released by the Centre of Social Justice in March 2025, highlights a crisis among young men in the UK, indicating they are struggling in education, more likely to take their own lives, finding it difficult to secure stable work, and frequently involved in crime. It suggests a lack of guidance, discipline, and purpose as underlying causes.
The research suggests that the first point of failure is when a boy loses a male role model. Boys from father-absent homes are significantly more likely to engage in criminal activity, self-harm, and struggle with mental health, indicating that boys are emotionally and mentally weaker and less resilient than girls in such situations.
The education system is seen as a problem because there are fewer male teachers (only 24% now), and school environments often prioritize behaviors (sitting still, being organized) that align more with girls' developmental stages. Boys are also twice as likely to be suspended for the same infractions as girls, and vocational training options that once provided middle-class paths for non-college-bound boys have largely disappeared.
Young women under 30 in urban areas are now out-earning young men, a shift observed since 2020. This creates a 'mating gap' because women traditionally seek partners with higher economic status, and with more women achieving higher education and income, the pool of men meeting these hypergamous expectations is shrinking, leading to fewer marriages and a dating crisis.
Dating apps exacerbate the crisis by allowing users to set restrictive filters (e.g., height), effectively excluding a large percentage of men from even being seen. This leads to a concentration of women competing for a small pool of 'top' men, while many men are ignored and may turn to online communities or pornography, further opting out of real-life dating.
Men are often not raised with the skills for emotional expression, and when they do try to open up, they can face shame or discomfort from others, including women. This creates a paradox where women desire emotionally available men but may be 'freaked out' when men show vulnerability, leading to men suppressing emotions, which contributes to loneliness, anger, and higher rates of depression and suicide.
Pornography provides frictionless, on-demand sexual gratification, which can reduce young men's motivation to engage in real-life dating, develop social skills, and endure rejection. It can replace genuine human connection, leading to a decline in relational skills and potentially contributing to loneliness and addiction, impacting their overall life development.
In the post-MeToo era, men are more hesitant to approach women in person due to fear of being perceived as 'creepy' or being publicly shamed online (e.g., on TikTok). This creates a situation where women still expect men to initiate, but men are afraid to do so, contributing to fewer real-life interactions and a reliance on online dating where 'excellence' is harder to demonstrate.
The left's vision of masculinity is often perceived as encouraging men to act 'more like a woman' or labeling traditional male attributes as 'toxic masculinity.' This approach, coupled with a focus on other special interest groups, leaves young men feeling unrepresented and without a positive vision of masculinity, pushing some towards alternative, often misogynistic, online figures.
For many men, their identity and self-worth are tightly correlated with their ability to be an economic provider. In a capitalist society, financial viability is seen as crucial for providing for children and parents. When men experience financial hardship or feel they cannot provide, it can lead to feelings of worthlessness and uselessness, contributing to severe depression and even suicide.
24 Actionable Insights
1. Prioritize Self-Improvement for Men
Men should focus on becoming attractive mates by being in shape, having a plan for financial stability, demonstrating kindness, and building confidence. This holistic approach makes them desirable partners and improves overall well-being.
2. Embrace Men’s Groups
Join or form men’s groups to create a masculine space for emotional support, accountability, and peer advice. These groups help men process struggles, develop emotional skills, and grow together.
3. Reinvest Screen Time Wisely
Identify and reduce excessive screen time (e.g., 8-12 hours/week) and reallocate that ‘capital’ into productive investments like physical fitness, earning money, and social engagement.
4. Cultivate Kindness and Manners
Men should consciously demonstrate kindness, good manners, thoughtfulness, and follow-up in all interactions. This ‘secret weapon’ signals a good person and builds trust in relationships.
5. Develop Conflict Resolution Skills
Men should learn to actively listen to their romantic partners during conflict, even taking notes and repeating back what was said. This skill is crucial for healthy long-term relationships and is often unnatural for men.
6. Practice Social Risk-Taking
Actively seek out social interactions and practice asking people out for coffee or to social events, even if the goal is to get a ’no.’ This builds resilience to rejection and improves social skills.
7. Pursue Economic Viability
Start making money, even through small jobs like Lyft or TaskRabbit, to gain a taste for financial independence and understand the economy. Economic viability is crucial for a man’s sense of purpose and societal standing.
8. Prioritize Physical Strength
Engage in weight training at least three times a week to build physical strength. This enhances mental health, confidence, and provides a sense of capability and well-being.
9. Aspire to Surplus Value
Adopt a mindset of creating ‘surplus value’ in life, meaning giving more than you take. This involves noticing others’ lives, listening to complaints, and protecting the vulnerable, defining true masculinity.
10. Express Emotions Authentically
Men should practice expressing their emotions when struggling, rather than suppressing them or letting them manifest as anger. This is crucial for mental health and building deeper connections.
11. Manage Depression with SCAFA
When feeling depressed, try the ‘SCAFA’ routine: Sweat (exercise), Clean (eat well, tidy home), Abstinence (from pot/alcohol), Family (spend time with loved ones), Affection (seek physical closeness).
12. Read Fiction to Build Empathy
Incorporate reading fiction books into your routine. Fiction helps build empathy by allowing you to experience the world through different perspectives, improving understanding of others.
13. Engage in Community Activities
Twice a week, put yourself in the company of strangers and something bigger than yourself, such as a church group, softball league, or nonprofit. This fosters social connections and a sense of belonging.
14. Modulate Porn Consumption
Young men should try to modulate their use of pornography to prevent it from replacing real-life social and romantic interactions. This helps preserve the ‘mojo’ and motivation for genuine connection.
15. Cultivate Passions and Growth
Develop and actively discuss personal passions and a commitment to self-improvement on dates. Women are often drawn to men who are continuously working on themselves and pursuing interests.
16. Focus on Effort in Dating
Men should understand that women value effort more than perfection in dating. Remember details, text thoughtfully, and plan dates to show genuine care and interest.
17. Practice Self-Reflection
Regularly take quiet time to identify and articulate the most pressing issues or struggles. This habit, often done with Post-it notes in men’s groups, helps men understand their emotional landscape.
18. Build a Personal Board
Create a personal ‘board of directors’ of trusted individuals to consult when making big life decisions. This provides diverse perspectives, identifies blind spots, and offers hard advice.
19. Give Second Dates a Chance
Women should make the second date the default, especially if the first date was just ‘okay.’ Some partners, like ‘slow burns,’ take longer to open up and reveal their true potential.
20. Broaden Dating App Filters
Women should consider changing or removing height filters on dating apps. Restrictive filters can exclude many potentially great partners, as only a small percentage of men meet common height preferences.
21. Seek Male Role Models
Parents, especially single mothers, should actively seek out other men (e.g., coaches, relatives, community members) to be involved in their sons’ lives. This provides essential male guidance and support.
22. Consider Delayed School Entry
Parents should consider redshirting boys, holding them back a year before starting kindergarten, to better align with their developmental readiness. Research suggests boys mature slower than girls.
23. Increase Recess and Play
Advocate for or seek out educational environments that provide more recess time, free play, and roughhousing for boys. This caters to their need for physical activity and helps manage energy.
24. Encourage More Social Drinking
Young people should consider drinking more and going out to make ‘bad decisions’ that might pay off socially. Alcohol can act as a social lubricant, breaking down initial awkwardness in romantic interactions.
8 Key Quotes
Emotional intelligence is the new currency in dating. But these guys were raised not to be emotionally intelligent, not to give emotional support, but to be a provider.
Logan Ury
We beg guys to open up. We beg them to let us in. And then when they do, we can't stomach it.
Brene Brown (quoted by Logan Ury)
A woman would rather see me die on the white horse than fall off of it.
Anonymous Man (quoted by Logan Ury)
If you are in foster care as a young woman, you have less negative outcomes than young men. And so there's this theory in parenting of is you're a child an orchid or a dandelion?
Logan Ury
I worry that we are literally evolving a new species of asexual, asocial male.
Scott Galloway
I'm laughing, I'm laughing, I'm naked.
Scott Galloway
Masculinity is being a protector, a provider, a procreator.
Scott Galloway
My entire life, I have never felt like I was good enough, like I could never earn my place in society. And even though I think I've achieved some things by the age of 18, I still feel like deep inside I will never be enough and I'm still not enough and I can't tell anybody.
Jeffrey (audience member)
3 Protocols
Men's Group Structure for Emotional Support
Logan Ury- Form a group of 6-7 men who meet monthly.
- Each month, set aside quiet time for each member to identify and write down their two most pressing issues on Post-it notes.
- Go around in a circle, and the member with the most pressing issue takes time to discuss it.
- Members provide advice and hold each other accountable for actions discussed in previous meetings.
- Encourage less humor during deep discussions to ensure emotional depth.
Reinvesting Time Capital for Young Men
Scott Galloway- Unlock your screen and identify 8-12 hours of 'capital' (time) spent on low-ROI activities like TikTok or video games.
- Reinvest this time into three high-ROI investments:
- 1. Work out three times a week with weights to build physical strength, mental health, and confidence.
- 2. Start making some money, even through small jobs like Lyft or TaskRabbit, to develop economic viability and ambition.
- 3. Put yourself in the company of strangers and something bigger than yourself twice a week (e.g., church group, softball league, nonprofit, continuing education).
- As part of step 3, practice asking strangers out for coffee (as a friend or romantically) with the goal of hearing 'no' and celebrating the resilience of being okay with rejection.
Method for Overcoming Dark Places (SCAFA)
Scott Galloway- Sweat: Engage in physical activity to reset your operating system.
- Clean: Focus on eating well at home.
- Abstinence: Temporarily abstain from pot and alcohol if you're feeling down, as they can interfere with your emotional sensors.
- Family: Spend time with your children or family members.
- Affection: Seek out physical affection, whether from pets, children, or a partner.