#99 Kris Cordle: Releasing the Ego

Dec 22, 2020
Overview

Kris Cordle, former Chief of Staff at Slack and advisor to rapid-growth CEOs, shares insights from her unique upbringing and experience scaling companies. She discusses automatic rules for success, effective delegation, decision-making, and leadership adaptability.

At a Glance
41 Insights
48m 38s Duration
13 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Impact of Growing Up in a Religious Cult

Kris Cordle's Automatic Rules for Success

Effective Delegation Strategies

Learning to Disconnect and Turn Off

Scaling Companies: Twitter and Slack Journey

Hiring and Firing Best Practices

Phases of Organizational Change: Reject, Tolerate, Accept

Overcoming Communication Barriers Between Departments

Making Better Decisions in Rapid-Growth Environments

Challenges of Scaling a CEO and Leadership Traits

Releasing Ego and Staying Grounded as a Leader

Common Mistakes Leaders Make

The Role and Skills of a Chief of Staff

Necessity vs. Sufficiency

This mental model distinguishes between what is required for success (necessity, e.g., hard work, financing) and the undefinable 'magic sauce' (sufficiency) that truly makes a product or company take off, which cannot be predicted or easily replicated.

Reject, Tolerate, Accept

This framework describes the stages people go through when encountering significant change, such as a new brand or organizational shift. Initially, there's rejection, followed by a period of toleration, and eventually, acceptance as people acclimate and focus shifts.

No Transfiring

This concept refers to the practice of not simply moving an underperforming employee to a different role within the company when they are not a good fit for their current position. Instead, it advocates for the 'hard thing' of letting them go.

Scaling the CEO

This refers to the challenge founders face in transitioning from creating a product to building a business. It requires them to adapt quickly, often changing their perspective every few months, and letting go of direct control over every aspect of the 'product baby'.

Releasing the Ego

This involves letting go of the self-importance tied to one's achievements and narrative, especially for leaders. It requires seeking honest feedback, staying grounded by exploring things greater than oneself, and not believing one's own origin story.

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How did growing up in a religious cult influence Kris Cordle's perspective and career?

Growing up in a closed religious community instilled humility, compassion, empathy, and a sense of servant leadership. Breaking away at 26 forced her to question everything, fostering an appreciation for change, growth, and adaptability, which she now applies to her work with leaders.

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What are Kris Cordle's automatic rules for personal and professional success?

Her rules include effective delegation to free up time for unique contributions, constant learning and surrounding oneself with diverse thinkers, and intentionally turning off electronics and the constant need to optimize to allow for cognitive rest.

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How can individuals delegate more effectively?

Effective delegation requires overcoming the mental hurdle that no one can do it as well as you, recognizing that others need growth opportunities, and releasing the anxiety that the outcome may not be perfect, allowing you to focus on tasks only you can do.

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How can one learn to 'turn off' and disconnect from constant optimization?

Learning to turn off requires setting up habits and mechanisms, like going cold turkey from electronics or choosing environments without service. It's about creating a 'cognitive massage' by intentionally stepping back from the constant need to optimize and consume information.

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What are key patterns for success and failure when scaling a company?

Key patterns include hiring and firing the right people quickly, maintaining focus on core goals and customers, and understanding that employees must adapt to change (reject, tolerate, accept). Failure often stems from holding onto people in the wrong roles or leaders failing to adapt their own roles.

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What is the importance of hiring for future growth rather than current needs?

It is crucial to hire for where the company wants to be, rather than just the existing job. This involves crafting a compelling narrative to attract highly qualified individuals who may initially seem 'too big' for the current role, as they will bring quality and drive future success.

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How can companies overcome communication barriers between different departments, like engineering and sales?

Overcoming these barriers involves creating opportunities for different departments to interact and understand each other's value, such as organizing social events that bring them together or sending engineers on sales calls to foster mutual appreciation and better communication.

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What is the best approach for making decisions in a fast-paced startup environment?

The best approach is to gather as much information as possible, then make decisions quickly, as the market changes rapidly. It's helpful to structure proposals with the situation, multiple solutions, pros/cons, and a recommendation, ensuring the decision-makers have full context.

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How can leaders avoid believing their own narrative and stay grounded?

Leaders can stay grounded by maintaining long-term relationships with people who knew them before their success, asking for honest feedback, seeking out experiences greater than themselves (like learning new skills), and understanding that their public 'origin story' is often a constructed narrative.

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What is the primary responsibility of a leader (e.g., CEO) in a scaling organization?

A leader's primary responsibility is to operate from a 'mountaintop' perspective, focusing on market awareness, strategy, potential acquisitions, and identifying what the organization needs to learn or build faster. They should delegate day-to-day tasks and trust their people to execute.

1. Prioritize Leader Adaptability

Cultivate adaptability as the primary leadership skill, recognizing your capacity for rapid personal and organizational change, as it is crucial for success in fast-paced environments.

2. Seek Genuine Feedback

To release ego, surround yourself with the right people and repeatedly ask for genuine feedback, demonstrating that you truly want to know for self-awareness and growth.

3. Don’t Believe Your Own Hype

Avoid putting your self-worth into the PR narratives or origin stories created about yourself, as these are often simplified and public perception is cyclical, leading to potential disappointment.

4. Cultivate Honest Long-Term Relationships

Maintain long-term relationships with people who knew you before success, invite them to observe your work, and explicitly ask for honest, unfiltered feedback to stay grounded.

5. Adopt ‘Mountaintop’ Leadership View

As a leader, elevate your perspective to a ‘mountaintop’ view, focusing on market awareness, strategy, and identifying future challenges or opportunities that your team might not see.

6. Prioritize Strategic Deep Work

Embrace the feeling of having ’time to think’ as a leader, recognizing it as an opportunity for strategic ‘deep work’ and representing your company at exclusive tables, which are crucial, unique responsibilities.

7. Accountability for Deep Work

Enlist someone to hold you accountable for scheduling and engaging in deep work periods, as this helps leaders maintain focus on strategic thinking.

8. Hire Smart, Fire Fast

Hire the right people carefully, but fire quickly when there’s not a fit, because mistakes in personnel can set back foundational development significantly.

9. Avoid ‘Transfiring’ Employees

Do not simply move underperforming employees to another role (’transfiring’); instead, make the difficult decision to let them go humanely, as ’transfiring’ only shifts the problem.

10. Hire for Future Growth

Hire individuals who are ’too big for the job’ today, focusing on where you want the company to be, as they will attract other high-quality talent and help the company scale.

11. Delegate Effectively

Delegate tasks that others can do, even if it costs money, as it frees up your mind space and time, allowing you to focus on tasks only you can do for greater success.

12. Overcome Delegation Anxiety

Overcome the mental hurdle of delegation by recognizing that others need growth opportunities and by releasing the anxiety that no one can do it as well as you.

13. Embrace Constant Learning

Engage in constant learning, which can include surrounding yourself with diverse, interesting individuals and asking them questions, fostering continuous discovery and growth.

14. Disconnect & De-Optimize

Turn off electronics and the constant desire to optimize, allowing your brain to rest, as it prevents cognitive overload and serves as a form of mental meditation.

15. Create Disconnection Habits

Implement ‘cold turkey’ habits and mechanisms, such as choosing routes without cell service or intentionally leaving your phone behind, to combat the huge temptation to stay connected.

16. Make Structured Decisions Quickly

Make decisions swiftly in the startup world, but ensure they are informed by a structured process like an ‘Amazon memo’ (situation, 3 solutions, pros/cons, recommendation).

17. Act Decisively on Reversible Decisions

Gather sufficient information, then make a decision and ’let go,’ especially if the decision is reversible, because moving forward is crucial.

18. Conduct Blame-Free AARs

Regularly conduct After Action Reviews (AARs) to compare expected outcomes with actual occurrences, identify successes and areas for improvement, and iterate on decision-making processes without assigning blame.

19. Act Proactively to Control Direction

Proactively make decisions and move forward, because inaction will lead to external forces dictating your direction.

20. Maintain Customer Focus

Keep a solid focus on your core goals and, critically, on your customers, as this is a reliable strategy that will prevent you from going astray.

21. Let Go of ‘Your Legos’

As a company grows, transition from doing every job yourself to focusing on your specific role and ‘staying in your lane,’ which is essential for sustainable growth.

22. Recognize Evolving Role Fit

Understand that your suitability for a role can change as the company grows and evolves, as this awareness is crucial for personal and organizational adaptation.

23. Allow Growth Digestion Time

After significant growth or change, allow a period for digestion, letting people acclimate and get to know each other, which helps integrate new elements and ensures stability.

24. Balance Culture & Business

Find a fine balance between focusing on company culture and business priorities, as both are critical and neither should be prioritized exclusively for sustained success.

25. Prioritize Long-Term Personnel Fit

When a person isn’t a fit for a role, make the difficult decision to let them go, understanding it’s ultimately better for them in the long run, while treating them kindly.

26. Vet Investor-Referred Hires

Be aware that investor-referred candidates might serve the investor’s broader network interests, not solely your company’s, ensuring you hire for your specific needs.

27. Guide Change with Empathy

When implementing well-thought-through changes, explain the rationale behind decisions and actively listen to people’s concerns, helping people move through change more smoothly.

28. Bridge Departmental Divides

Create intentional opportunities for different departments to interact and understand each other’s roles, breaking down communication barriers and fostering mutual appreciation.

29. Ensure Full Context for Proposals

Ensure that individuals proposing solutions or writing decision memos fully understand the context of the situation, as proposals without full context may be easily dismissed.

30. Transition to Business Building

As a founder, transition your focus from solely creating the product to building the business around it, which requires letting go of the ‘product as baby’ mindset.

31. Embrace Unfamiliar Leadership Roles

Let go of control and allow your people to do their work, embracing the often unnatural and unfamiliar responsibilities of your new leadership position, even if it feels uncomfortable.

32. Empower Teams, Foster Collaboration

Hire the right people, let them do their jobs without micromanagement, and foster collaboration among them, empowering the team and leveraging collective capabilities.

33. Proactively Prevent Problems

As a chief of staff, proactively identify and prevent problems, taking issues off the leader’s plate before they escalate, ensuring smooth operations.

34. Develop Cross-Organizational Acumen

Cultivate a deep understanding of different departments’ work and people’s motivations across the organization, enabling efficient prioritization, problem-solving, and connection.

35. Cultivate High Emotional Intelligence

Develop high emotional intelligence (EQ) to understand people, read a room, and grasp underlying dynamics, as this skill is crucial for effective leadership.

36. Remember ‘People Is The Work’

Always remember that, despite technological advancements, the core of any organizational work is ‘people,’ which guides effective leadership and interaction.

37. Cultivate Core Leadership Traits

Cultivate humility (death of ego), compassion, empathy, and servant leadership, as these traits are fundamental for effective leadership and positive influence.

38. Explore Unrelated Curiosities

Explore things you’re curious about, especially if they are unrelated to your main work, as it frees your mind, helps find parallels, and relieves your brain from persistent problems.

39. Stay Grounded via Curiosity

Stay grounded by seeking out things greater than yourself, putting yourself in uncomfortable situations, and exploring unrelated curiosities, fostering humility and broadening perspective.

40. Foster Internal Connection Tools

Implement internal tools or game-like mechanisms (e.g., guessing employee names from pictures) to help employees get to know each other and maintain a sense of community as the company scales.

41. Prepare Employees for Narrative Shifts

Inform employees about the inevitable cyclical nature of public perception and company narratives, which helps manage expectations and keeps the team focused on core objectives.

If you can free up your mind space, free up your time to be doing the things that only you can do, you'll be a lot more successful in the things you're trying to do.

Kris Cordle

I've learned the more you know about something, the less you know about it.

Kris Cordle

You should only be doing the things that you can do.

Kris Cordle

If any decision is reversible, then keep going with it. That's really key.

Kris Cordle

If you don't move, then there will be forces that move you, whether you like it or not.

Kris Cordle

The most thankless decision you can make is the one that prevents something bad from happening.

Kris Cordle

Decision-Making Memo Format

Kris Cordle
  1. Present the current situation.
  2. Propose three different solutions.
  3. Detail the pros of each solution.
  4. Detail the cons of each solution.
  5. Provide a clear recommendation.

SEAL Teams After Action Review (AAR)

Kris Cordle
  1. Discuss what was expected to happen.
  2. Discuss what actually occurred.
  3. Identify what went well and why.
  4. Identify what can be improved and how.
50 hours a week
Kris Cordle's audiobook listening time A sign for her to potentially 'turn it off' more.
140-150 employees
Employee count at Twitter and Slack when Kris joined Scaled to a couple of thousand employees through IPO.
Every three to four months
Timeframe for founders to completely change perspective Due to rapid growth and being put into unqualified jobs.