#171 - Steve Austad, Ph.D.: The landscape of longevity science: making sense of caloric restriction, biomarkers of aging, and possible geroprotective molecules

Aug 9, 2021 Episode Page ↗
Overview

Peter Atiyah discusses aging with Steve Austad, a distinguished biology professor and aging research director. They explore caloric restriction, sex differences in longevity, and promising geroprotective molecules like rapamycin and metformin.

At a Glance
11 Insights
2h 26m Duration
16 Topics
5 Concepts

Deep Dive Analysis

Steve Austad's Unconventional Background and Childhood

Adventures as a New York City Cab Driver

Accidental Career as a Lion Tamer

Transition to Studying Animal Behavior and Longevity

Challenges and Limitations of Laboratory Animal Research

History and Impact of Caloric Restriction in Animals

Differences Between Rats and Mice in Longevity Research

Comparing Caloric Restriction Studies in Rhesus Macaques

Impact of Diet Composition and Sucrose in Monkey Studies

Caloric Restriction in Wild vs. Laboratory Mice

Human Studies on Caloric Restriction and Adherence

Alternative Dietary Protocols and Intermittent Fasting

Biological Explanations for Sex Differences in Human Lifespan

The Importance of Longevity Biomarkers

Promising Molecules for Geroprotection: Rapamycin and Metformin

The 150-Year Human Lifespan Bet

Laboratory Evolution

This refers to the process by which laboratory animals, like mice, have been inadvertently selected and bred over hundreds of generations for traits such as faster growth, rapid reproduction, and larger litter sizes. This intense selection makes them genetically identical and significantly different from their wild counterparts, creating what Steve Austad calls 'mouse-like objects'.

Genetically Heterogeneous Mice

These are laboratory mice, such as those used in the Intervention Testing Program (ITP), where each individual mouse is genetically unique, but the overall population can be reliably recreated. This model is considered a significant improvement over inbred strains for more robust and generalizable research outcomes.

Testosterone Dementia

A humorous term coined by Steve Austad to describe the period, typically during adolescence, when men often engage in extremely risky, impulsive, and unintelligent behaviors. These actions can lead to dangerous situations and are attributed to the influence of testosterone.

X-Chromosome Inactivation Bias

In women, one of the two X chromosomes is typically inactivated in each cell, usually in a random manner. However, as women age, there can be a bias where one X chromosome is inactivated more frequently than the other, potentially leading to differential gene expression over time.

Mitochondrial-Nuclear Genome Incompatibility

This hypothesis suggests that the male nuclear genome might be less compatible with the mitochondrial genome, which is passed down exclusively through females. This potential incompatibility could contribute to the observed sex differences in lifespan, as male mitochondria are at an evolutionary 'dead end'.

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What are the key differences between laboratory mice and wild mice?

Laboratory mice are typically twice as big as wild mice, reach sexual maturity twice as fast, have much larger litters, and possess bizarre mutations. They are also genetically identical and homozygous at every locus due to hundreds of generations of inbreeding, making them fundamentally different from their wild counterparts.

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What was the significance of Clive McKay's early caloric restriction experiments?

In the 1930s, Clive McKay, a nutritionist, serendipitously discovered that restricting the diet of rats, particularly females, led to them staying healthier and living substantially longer. This was a landmark discovery in aging research, though McKay himself did not fully appreciate its long-term significance.

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Why did the two major rhesus macaque caloric restriction studies (Wisconsin vs. NIA) yield different results?

The Wisconsin study used ad libitum-fed control animals that became obese and were fed a purified diet high in sucrose (28.5%), while the NIA study maintained control animals at a healthy body weight with a natural ingredient diet low in sucrose (3%). These differences in baseline health and diet composition led to varying outcomes regarding lifespan extension.

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Would caloric restriction benefit wild animals in their natural environment?

It is unlikely, and possibly detrimental. In the wild, restricted animals would need to forage longer, increasing their exposure to predators and potential toxins. Additionally, caloric restriction can slow wound healing and increase susceptibility to pathogens, which are significant risks in natural environments.

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What have human caloric restriction studies (like CALERIE) shown?

Human studies indicate that while even modest caloric restriction (around 10-12%) can improve cardiovascular risk factors, blood pressure, insulin, and glucose, it is very difficult for most people to sustain. Extreme restriction can also lead to negative effects like low bone mineral density and reduced muscle mass.

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What is the best explanation for why women live longer than men?

The exact reason is unknown, but several hypotheses exist, including women's redundant X chromosome potentially compensating for defective genes, or a possible incompatibility between the male nuclear genome and the maternally inherited mitochondrial genome. Women also exhibit better survival rates across all ages and conditions.

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Why is it difficult to find effective longevity biomarkers?

Previous large-scale efforts, such as a $100 million NIA initiative in the 1990s, yielded little, possibly due to the lack of appropriate scientific tools at the time. Current challenges involve the computational complexity of analyzing vast proteomic and metabolomic data, and ensuring biomarkers are clinically meaningful over long timescales.

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Which existing molecules show the most promise for geroprotection based on current data?

Based on mouse data, rapamycin appears to have the most potential for geroprotection. However, when considering human data, metformin shows more compelling evidence of benefit, though both have qualifications and combination therapies (e.g., rapamycin plus metformin) might ultimately be most effective.

1. Improve Health at Any Age

It’s never too late to significantly improve your health; even if you’re 50 and have a history of poor diet and no exercise, you can still achieve substantial health benefits. This challenges the notion that past habits dictate future health outcomes.

2. Focus on Diet Quality Over Quantity

The quality of your diet, specifically reducing harmful components like sucrose, may be as important or more important than caloric restriction for health benefits. The worse the diet, the more beneficial caloric restriction becomes, while a healthy diet reduces the impact of further restriction.

3. Short-Term Fasting Boosts Resilience

Engaging in short-term fasts (e.g., 2-3 days of water-only fasting, as seen in mouse studies) can significantly improve the body’s ability to recover from severe injury or stress. This suggests that transient periods of fasting can induce robust protective benefits.

4. Consider Episodic Rapalog Dosing

For potential immune boosting and longevity benefits, consider episodic dosing of rapalogs (like everolimus at 5mg or 20mg once a week). Lower doses have shown effectiveness in enhancing vaccine response in older adults with fewer side effects.

5. Metformin for Broad Health Benefits

Metformin, an extremely safe drug taken by millions, shows compelling data from human studies (beyond mouse data) for a wide range of benefits including reduced risk of dementia, cancer, and heart disease, making it a promising candidate for geroprotection.

6. Combine Geroprotective Interventions

Combining different geroprotective molecules or strategies, such as rapamycin and metformin, may offer synergistic and more helpful health benefits than single interventions alone.

7. Avoid Extreme Constant Caloric Restriction

While some caloric restriction can be beneficial, constant and extreme caloric restriction (like that practiced by ‘cronies’) is not the answer for most people. It can lead to negative side effects such as low bone mineral density, negligible sex hormones, and loss of muscle mass.

8. Exercise to Maintain Muscle Mass

If practicing caloric restriction, it is crucial to exercise more to counteract the tendency to lose muscle mass. Individuals on restrictive diets often struggle to maintain adequate muscle.

9. Accumulate Diverse Life Experiences

Actively seek out and accumulate a wide range of life experiences and adventures. This approach can broaden your perspective and provide unique insights, as demonstrated by Steve Austad’s varied career path.

10. Skepticism of Single Mouse Studies

When evaluating scientific claims, especially in longevity, maintain skepticism towards findings based solely on a single mouse study. These findings may not be generalizable or replicable in humans due to genetic and environmental differences.

11. Caution with Epigenetic Age Clocks

Be cautious about relying on current epigenetic age clocks as definitive clinical biomarkers. They are highly sensitive to short-term changes and easily manipulated, making their long-term clinical utility questionable.

I always thought it was going to happen because we would develop something or some things that would fundamentally change the rate of aging. And we haven't developed that yet.

Steve Austad

I always say that humans are the worst animal to study that you could imagine, because they don't do what you tell them to do, you know, and they'll lie about what they do.

Steve Austad

I think Alzheimer's disease is going to turn out to have an autoimmune component because that's the kind of thing that women seem to be more prone to than men is some of the autoimmune diseases.

Steve Austad

I think the worse the diet, the more beneficial the caloric restriction. The better the diet, the less of an impact caloric restriction has.

Peter Attia

I think of this as looking at the world through one eye. We have one comparison with humans now. It's mice. And just like you don't have much perspective when you close one eye, I don't think you have much perspective when you have one comparison.

Steve Austad
20%
Lifespan difference in opossums (island vs. mainland) Opossums on a low-risk island environment lived approximately 20% longer than those on the mainland.
28.5%
Sucrose content in Wisconsin monkey diet The control diet in the Wisconsin rhesus macaque caloric restriction study contained 28.5% sucrose.
3%
Sucrose content in NIA monkey diet The control diet in the National Institute of Aging (NIA) rhesus macaque study contained about 3% sucrose.
11% to 12%
Caloric restriction achieved in human CALERIE study Participants in the two-year human CALERIE study were able to achieve an average caloric restriction of 11% to 12%.
17 to 20
Typical BMI range for Calorie Restriction Society members ('cronies') Individuals adhering strictly to caloric restriction often maintain a Body Mass Index (BMI) between 17 and 20.
5 years
Average difference in human lifespan between men and women Women typically live about 5 years longer than men in the developed world.
122.5 years
Longest recorded human lifespan The longest-lived human on record lived approximately 122.5 years.
at least nine genes
Number of genes on the Y chromosome expressed in every tissue At least nine genes on the Y chromosome are expressed in every tissue, with their functions largely unknown.
15%
Percentage of X chromosome genes not inactivated in humans Approximately 15% of genes on the inactive X chromosome in humans remain expressed in both sexes.
3% to 4%
Percentage of X chromosome genes not inactivated in mice Only about 3% to 4% of genes on the inactive X chromosome in mice remain expressed.
5 milligrams and 20 milligrams
Everolimus (rapalog) doses tested for vaccine response Studies showed that 5mg and 20mg of everolimus, given once a week, were effective at boosting influenza vaccine response in older healthy people, with the lower dose having fewer side effects.